Politics

[Tundra Tiger]

"Good...maybe other people in positions of elected power and influence will learn to keep their mouths shut and temper their comments that can have a chaotic effect on military morale."

Does this apply to Trump as well?

With Trump this would have to extend beyond the military. He says bombastic things that have people parsing what it is he really means. Just today there has been discussion on this forum about what he really does or doesn't mean about Greenland. Just hours ago the Danish Prime Minister said she takes his comments about taking control of Greenland as a serious threat. If a world leader can't make sense of what he says, I would strongly argue he needs to temper his comments. You know, to avoid having a chaotic effect.

 

[Betterinthebush]

How about this officer who many on the right praised? Isn't this a direct challenge to good order and discipline and undermines trust in the chain of command? Many on the right were outraged he was charged under UCMJ.

@skydiver386 prety much summed it up for me. Nothing more to add.

 

[pilar]

I for one, stand with Mark Kelly.

Go ahead, as I found him a #1 D bag when he showed up at my sisters house asking for a cash donation to his personal anti 2A PAC , “ my sister is a California liberal “
And him and gabby got nervous about the donation when I stated I was happy to live in Texas but would be happy to shoot a quick picture of him .

 

[Red Leg]

Interesting data release from Ukraine. Most casualty claims from any side are inevitably exaggerated during wartime.

The difference with these is that these are just drone engagements and they are recorded as they strike their target. In other words, they should be more accurate than simple estimates. One would assume the majority of personnel casualties are wounded rather than killed, but explosive wounds tend to be of a serious nature.

The other number could be anything from combat platforms to bunkers.

The point is, a monthly loss rate of this proportion is unsustainable by any population. Such losses would also go far in explaining the collapse of the Russian fall offensive.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1q4yrhp/ukrainian_drone_units_reached_a_new_record_for

 

[LivingTheDream]

Regarding #1, many professions have a continuing education requirement. For example, I am a registered professional engineer and I have to take quite a few hours of continuing education courses, including one course on ethics, rules and regulation. Little or nothing changes year to year, but I have to take a course and a test. With the turnover in the military, particularly in the enlisted ranks, I see nothing wrong with military veterans that are currently serving in Congress, to remind the troops about unlawful orders.

Regarding #2, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. I don't see it that way. Don't instructors in basic training tell recruits this very same message?

I voted for Trump, multiple times. So don't write me off as a Trump hater. I'm just very disappointed in his childish behavior. I very much doubt that I would vote for Mark Kelly. However, I don't think he did anything wrong and given his military record and service, he's earn my respect.

I have to disagree with this. He is basically setting some young man or woman to be fall guy for the next democrat talking point.

For example, some private disobeys an order, says he interprets it as illegal, and someone gets hurt or killed. The Democrats will rally around that person until the news cycle moves on. That person will be left holding the bag and Mark Kelly will be fundraising off of it.

Also, how would it work out for you if a police officer gave you an order and you interpret as illegal and disobeyed.

Overall, the message/video was stupid and petty, at best has the chance to get someone in trouble and at worst get someone killed. The administration response was also petty. Telling anyone to disobey orders, outside of the courts, is terrible advice and to do it for political points is cowardly.

 

[mdwest]

And another thing.....we need some kind of litmus test that proves you love this country before you can hold any kind of elected position...bastards.

I hear what youre saying... and I dont necessarily disagree with you.. but...

I believe Kelly loves the US.. he just has very different values than you likely do..

He isnt an AOC or Mandami.. He isnt begging for socialism.. and he isnt an anarchist.. hes honestly not even a far left winger (at least compared to lunatic fringe like Crockett, AOC, Bernie, Talib, etc etc)...

He served in the US military for 25 years.. he did multiple combat tours and flew numerous combat missions.. he was a long serving astronaut that ultimately commanded a shuttle mission.. hes been a very successful businessman (and is very much a capitalist).. and now serves in the senate..

Personally I dont like him... his values are very different than mine.. I would not vote for him.. and I dont care for him being in office..

But I dont question his patriotism or his loyalty to the US..

 

[deewayne2003]

What I find hysterical about that is…

To what end?

What exactly is the UN going to do? Condemn the US? Tell the world that the orange man is bad?

They’ve been doing that for years…

The US pays for 22% of the total UN budget, and 25% of global peacekeeping… 1 country paying 1/4 of all of the organizations bills…

Does anyone think the UN would go any further than shaking its finger and stomping its feet like a child?

And does anyone really believe that the US really gives a shit? Or that Trump gives a shit?

Just another waste of time and money…

Just like Team America World Police…..
The U.N. will send us an angry letter.

What I find hilarious is that Chinese diplomats arrived to meet with Maduro just four hours before he was snatched!

Those Chinese diplomats just had the most awkward business trip ever.

 

[Brent in Az]

"Good...maybe other people in positions of elected power and influence will learn to keep their mouths shut and temper their comments that can have a chaotic effect on military morale."

Does this apply to Trump as well?


And another thing.....we need some kind of litmus test that proves you love this country before you can hold any kind of elected position...bastards.

Kelly's service records suggests a strong love of country. What has Trump done or Hegseth for that matter that comes anywhere close to this. Heck, Sen Duckworth gave two legs (which I think is more than an arm and a leg). I don't like her politics, but I respect her.

Well.....golly gee whiz.

Let's think on this for a moment.

What love for country has Donald Trump shown.?

He took a bullet in the ear that was just an inch or so away from shattering his skull.
Fortunately, he evaded a second attempt on his life
Yet .....he kept on going without fear or intimidation of the radical left.
His actions as president has shown that he loves this country, wants to make it great, safe, and affordable for his constituents.
Kelly's, service record doesn't give him Carte Blanche to try and undermine Donald Trump or the military.
As far as I'm concerned, Kelly is nothing but a member of the gun grabbing goon squad, and the Republican hating leftist echo chamber.
Kelly's service record doesn't mean Jackshit to me, and Jack left town. That ship has sailed

Donald Trump loves this country.

Mark Kelly loves his political party and agenda.

Oh......and Donald Trump has/is donating his entire 8 year's of Presidential salary, to the tune of $3.2 million dollars.
Any of the D.C grifter's doing that? Mark Kelly?

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

Well.....golly gee whiz.

Let's think on this for a moment.

What love for country has Donald Trump shown.?

He took a bullet in the ear that was just an inch or so away from shattering his skull.
Fortunately, he evaded a second attempt on his life
Yet .....he kept on going without fear or intimidation of the radical left.
His actions as president has shown that he loves this country, wants to make it great, safe, and affordable for his constituents.
Kelly's, service record doesn't give him Carte Blanche to try and undermine Donald Trump or the military.
As far as I'm concerned, Kelly is nothing but a member of the gun grabbing goon squad, and the Republican hating leftist echo chamber.
Kelly's service record doesn't mean Jackshit to me, and Jack left town. That ship has sailed

Donald Trump loves this country.

Mark Kelly loves his political party and agenda.

Oh......and Donald Trump has/is donating his entire 8 year's of Presidential salary, to the tune of $3.2 million dollars.
Any of the D.C grifter's doing that? Mark Kelly?

Donald Trump loves America, but he loves Donald Trump more.

 

[Brent in Az]

Donald Trump loves America, but he loves Donald Trump more.

Maybe so, but as long as he does the job I hired him to do, he can love on himself all he wants.

 

[ActionBob]

Well, let's see who will replace him. You think Elisson as the Governor of MN will be better?

Elisson would be even worse. He is deeply embedded into the Somali scams.

 

[Hunt anything]

Regarding #1, many professions have a continuing education requirement. For example, I am a registered professional engineer and I have to take quite a few hours of continuing education courses, including one course on ethics, rules and regulation. Little or nothing changes year to year, but I have to take a course and a test. With the turnover in the military, particularly in the enlisted ranks, I see nothing wrong with military veterans that are currently serving in Congress, to remind the troops about unlawful orders.

Regarding #2, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. I don't see it that way. Don't instructors in basic training tell recruits this very same message?

I voted for Trump, multiple times. So don't write me off as a Trump hater. I'm just very disappointed in his childish behavior. I very much doubt that I would vote for Mark Kelly. However, I don't think he did anything wrong and given his military record and service, he's earn my respect.

I definitely respect Kelly’s devotion to the country but I feel the people on the video shouldn’t have done it. Many of your points are well taken and the reason I’m wishy washy on the matter.

I definitely wouldn’t accuse you of being a Trump hater, I value your posts, opinions and expertise on various subjects.

 

[Vinootz]

Donald Trump loves America, but he loves Donald Trump more.

I’d have to agree. Keep in mind that at his worst he is better than any existing politician. He can be multifaceted and serve the country as well as himself. It’s good to see someone shake it up. Will he enrich himself? Of course he will. But he may ignite some things that are long overdue. Besides, it’s all gravy ever since he got a 6 to 3 majority in the SCOTUS. For the time being the pussies of the world are going to have to take a seat and the thugs will start to think twice. He’s taking a General Patton approach and whoever doesn’t like it it’s too bad. Come and stop us. We are the United States of America and we are in your face. Take your best shots, we got the balls to step up when required. Let the chips fall where they may. Long overdue I say.
Word to the wise. Don’t underestimate our sand. We also intend to continue to help our brothers and sisters throughout this planet.
HAPPY NEW YEAR ! We love you all.
Just don’t f%#k with us in the current climate.

 

[PARA45]

As I’m trying to remember what briefings we were given on an annual basis when I was in, The Law of Armed Conflict (LOAC), and briefs on the UCMJ, comes to mind. There are steps and guidelines to follow if someone is believed were given an unlawful order. Coming up on national TV to say that was in my opinion irresponsible and not needed. Everyone in the military today gets it and knows it. It is covered in Basic Training, and it follows you until the day you separate or retire.

When our squadron was prepping form a
deployment, a JAG would give us yet another briefing covering more in depth the above mentioned topics to include how to conduct ourself in a different country.

IMHO, as an officer he should have known better. Totally irresponsible for those who took part in it.

 

[Brent in Az]

There have been others besides Mark Kelly with distinguished service records who have gone far left of center.
People who now seem to want to take away rights, that they once swore to defend.
Once that happens, I no longer take any military service into consideration in my opinion of them.

 

[Vinootz]

I definitely respect Kelly’s devotion to the country but I feel the people on the video shouldn’t have done it. Many of your points are well taken and the reason I’m wishy washy on the matter.

I definitely wouldn’t accuse you of being a Trump hater, I value your posts, opinions and expertise on various subjects.

Kelly has become a shrill for the Democrat party. Any person willing to sell out the 2nd amendment -and other things-on party lines has lost some credibility . He’s turned himself into a clown at best.

 

[barryk]

"Good...maybe other people in positions of elected power and influence will learn to keep their mouths shut and temper their comments that can have a chaotic effect on military morale."

Does this apply to Trump as well?


And another thing.....we need some kind of litmus test that proves you love this country before you can hold any kind of elected position...bastards.

Kelly's service records suggests a strong love of country. What has Trump done or Hegseth for that matter that comes anywhere close to this. Heck, Sen Duckworth gave two legs (which I think is more than an arm and a leg). I don't like her politics, but I respect her.

It surprises me that a retired military officer would be part of such a video. In particular, one with such distinguished record of combat and service. I cannot speak for the other branches of service but since I earned the title of U.S. Marine, I can speak to how we were taught in the Corps. It was obvious to me that Senator Kelly was intentionally causing young Marines/Army/Navy/Air Force to question or doubt validity of orders and their trust in the chain of command. Illegal orders are pretty well defined....take My Lai massacre for example. A commander is well aware of the necessity of a unit and it's members to follow orders for mission accomplishment. We were taught as Marines mission is first priority. I know our military forces in general, are all taught the independence and flexibility of command in that individual commanders do not necessarily have to rely on approval from above for every decision...this being one of the U.S. strengths as opposed to a communist unit that may not have that speed of decision-making available. But without that trust in decisions and orders from all levels, mission accomplishment is lost. You cannot sow seeds of doubt in that Marine rifleman or any other soldier, airman, or seaman.

 

[Hunt anything]

Kelly has become a shrill for the Democrat party. Any person willing to sell out the 2nd amendment -and other things-on party lines has lost some credibility . He’s turned himself into a clown at best.

I definitely don’t see eye to eye with him on politics, especially his views on 2A but I still respect his military service and NASA and would never vote

 

[barryk]

I hear what youre saying... and I dont necessarily disagree with you.. but...

I believe Kelly loves the US.. he just has very different values than you likely do..

He isnt an AOC or Mandami.. He isnt begging for socialism.. and he isnt an anarchist.. hes honestly not even a far left winger (at least compared to lunatic fringe like Crockett, AOC, Bernie, Talib, etc etc)...

He served in the US military for 25 years.. he did multiple combat tours and flew numerous combat missions.. he was a long serving astronaut that ultimately commanded a shuttle mission.. hes been a very successful businessman (and is very much a capitalist).. and now serves in the senate..

Personally I dont like him... his values are very different than mine.. I would not vote for him.. and I dont care for him being in office..

But I dont question his patriotism or his loyalty to the US..

I respect his service.....but I cannot understand why someone of his stature and service would deliberately poison the military "Esprit de Corps" waters.....just doesn't compute with me.

 

[Brent in Az]