Let's Talk About The 458 B&M

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by TOBY458, Feb 13, 2019 at 9:15 PM.

  1. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    679
    Video/Photo:
    36
    Likes Received:
    664
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    Short, light, handy rifles in a caliber on par with a 458 Win Mag. Same ballistics as the 458 WM from a 18"-20" barrel, in a rifle that can easily be packed all day. 2.24" case that works in a short action rifle. What's not to like?
    (Other than being strictly a handloading proposition)
    20190213_213957.jpg
     

  2. JakeH

    JakeH AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2017
    Messages:
    331
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    307
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    USA
    Don’t have much to add about the cartridge itself, but the “B” of B&M has always been a pleasure to talk to and is just generally a great all-around person.
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  3. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,024
    Video/Photo:
    31
    Likes Received:
    5,689
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    USA, S. Africa
    So is the "M".
     
    TOBY458 and JakeH like this.

  4. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,024
    Video/Photo:
    31
    Likes Received:
    5,689
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    USA, S. Africa
    Have one and I love it. 18" barrel, sits in a stock I had Accurate Innovations create for it. Wonderful stock that is designed to eat up that recoil. Haven't used it on the big stuff yet. But I've loaded 260gr SOCOMs from CEB in it for a fantastic PG load. It's a 200-250 yard load, the arc gets steep after 250 for sure. But limit shots to 200 yards or less and it's devastating.

    A thread with some pics of mine: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/458-b-m.11420/
     
    Royal27 and TOBY458 like this.

  5. JakeH

    JakeH AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2017
    Messages:
    331
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    307
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    USA
    I believe we’ve discussed this before. I’m obviously biased but there’s just some good people in the Carolinas! :D

    As to the actual topic, there’s not much to not like about the B&M cartridges. And if you don’t reload, Superior Ammo will load it for you, though it is at a premium I’m sure.
     
    TOBY458 and PHOENIX PHIL like this.

  6. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    679
    Video/Photo:
    36
    Likes Received:
    664
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    Refresh my memory. What does B&M stand for?
     

  7. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,024
    Video/Photo:
    31
    Likes Received:
    5,689
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    USA, S. Africa
    Let's see if we can't lure @michael458 back on to AH for a comment or two.
     
    TOBY458 and Wheels like this.

  8. PHOENIX PHIL

    PHOENIX PHIL AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2009
    Messages:
    8,024
    Video/Photo:
    31
    Likes Received:
    5,689
    Member of:
    SCI
    Hunted:
    USA, S. Africa
    M is for Michael McCourry and the B is for I think his name is Bill that partnered with him in developing these B&M rifles. I've only met Michael.
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  9. Travis2282

    Travis2282 AH Veteran

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2014
    Messages:
    247
    Video/Photo:
    19
    Likes Received:
    241
    Billy and Michael I believe
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  10. JakeH

    JakeH AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2017
    Messages:
    331
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    307
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    USA
    B is William Bruton, better known as Billy. Michael says on their website that Billy provides the spark on inspiration that got the ball rolling on the B&M cartridges.
     
    TOBY458 and PHOENIX PHIL like this.

  11. PaulT

    PaulT AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2010
    Messages:
    973
    Video/Photo:
    137
    Likes Received:
    429
    Member of:
    S.C.I. International. Rowland Ward. Sporting shooters Association of Australia. Australian Deer Association.
    Hunted:
    Aus. N.Z & Zim.
    I have had the great fortune of meeting both Billy and Michael.
    They are both two of the finest gentlemen you will likely meet anywhere.

    The .458 B&M is a fine cartridge and performs well on buffalo, as the above pic displays.
     
    Pheroze and TOBY458 like this.

  12. michael458

    michael458 AH Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Video/Photo:
    8
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    South Carolina
    HEH HEH......... I don't get over here a lot, but was here this morning doing some research on another matter, and here we are...... LOL..... Hi Phil and Paul........ Good Morning Toby, and Jake..... Jake knows Billy.... But I don't think I know Jake. I assume Jake has been down to visit Billy and done some shooting since nearby in NC.....

    Well Good Morning all.....

    I have several "Favorite Rifles", and when ONE of them is in hand at any given time, then it is My Favorite Rifle of all time, UNTIL I put it down, and pick up another favorite, then it is the Favorite of all time..... HEH...............

    I have a 18 inch 458 B&M, Very Nice Accurate Innovations Bastogne Walnut Stock, finish is GunKote Matte Black. It came in light, by 1/2 lb better than most in that same category with wood. It is an absolute dream to hunt with, it is short, light, extremely handy, and extremely fast on target. No doubt, it is a Favorite Rifle........

    [​IMG]

    I carried it on two major hunts, 2011 and 2013 in Zimbabwe and South Africa, and it accounted for itself extremely well............on everything from Impala to Elephant and a hell of a lot in between.

    The 458 B&M is a 2.240 inch RUM case, and rifle is Winchester M70 WSM action, a perfect match. It is Optimum between 18 -20 inches, and 18 is damn handy. With the 18 inch barrel I run the 450 CEB Solids at 2215 fps and the matching 420 Raptors at 2260 fps, both in the same hole at 50 Yards. In addition, this gun will run the 250 Socom at 2900 fps and is a hammer on ANYTHING less than buffalo. And I even shot one buffalo with success with the 250 Socom. With this, you can have one rifle and hunt everything that walks the planet, with success, pick and choose the bullet required for the mission at hand.................The 250 Socom from CEB has been extremely successful on everything from deer/impala, right up to moose and Lion even, bears and everything in between. I have a friend that has a 458 B&M and used the 250s for the biggest moose I have ever seen, I believe it was over 200 yards, and the moose dropped where he stood, and the base of the bullet exited broadside....... Not bad...... I have shot several buffalo with the 420 Raptor with extreme success, and of course, anyone that knows me, knows I love SOLIDS........ You simply must have a solid to complete the mission......... The 450 CEB Safari #13 does that with ease. At over 2200 fps it does the job, I shot a good bull elephant broadside heart shot at 12-15 yards in 2013 and the solid burned thru the elephant like it was butter, nice big hole in the heart, and it was down in 20-25 yards, and bullet exited far side, how much more do you want..... I was lined up for a frontal brain, but the last second he got a whiff of us and turned, I dropped down and took the heart shot............

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    We were hunting croc, skirting Lake Kariba about 75 yards inside of shoreline we woke up a large bull hippo that was taking a nap, on the other side of us. Leaving us between Mr. Hippo and the water... not good. I had a 250 Socom up the spout, and did not wish to draw too much attention to ourselves, there was no time to change rounds out. At 15 yards I took the shot between the eyes with the 250 at 2900 fps, and the bull dropped like a sack of rocks. Upon inspection brain matter had squirted out both ear holes 6 feet. Skull was cracked all to hell, and impact of that bullet was devastating........ None the less, I loaded quickly, and put a solid through the shoulder for insurance before approach, that bullet went all the way to the far rear hip after completely traversing the hippo, and busting heavy bone all in between......

    [​IMG]

    I ended up with a good croc later, again a 250 Socom thought the neck anchored him to the spot..............

    [​IMG]

    This rifle is for sure a great one. It is one of the rare guns that will shoot multiple bullets to or very near the same POI at 50 yards.... I had the 250 Socom Raptor, 450 #13 Solid and 420 Raptor all in or within 1/2 inch POI at 50. I was able to pick and choose (if Time Allowed) which bullet for the mission.

    The 458 B&M was on the the board and in progress right behind the first 50 B&M built. I knew I could take that same 50 B&M case and drop it to .458 without issue, and it was actually being built before the first 50 B&M arrived.......... 20 inch guns you will gain about 50-60 fps with any given bullet. I personally like the 18 inch versions since they are so easy to handle in the field, and still have plenty of juice behind them for anything that walks, or in some cases, crawls. A good compromise is 19 inches I suppose. Which there have been a few of those done.

    Before B&Ms I carried your standard 458 Win, 458 Lotts and such M70s..... LONG MUSKET Barrels of 24 inches, basically 10 lbs or better, for many years...... From 2005 forward, the first B&Ms, I never carried anything like that again, and never would. OMG, even going to the range to do test work, which is only a few steps outside, I wondered how in the hell I carried such a thing many many miles of bush? Never again. I recently sold off many of my beloved 24 inch musket barreled Winchesters, I kept only the ones that had any true sentimental value, all the rest found new homes. Since 2005 they have all been in the safe anyway, occasionally dragging one out to do various test work with, load data, pressure data, that sort of thing...... But never ever would they go back to the field. And, my standard test for everyone that walks in the door, is for them to handle a standard 24 inch Win M70 458 Winchester, and then to handle my Favorite 458 B&M, and then I let them tell me which one they want to go to the field with and everything ballistically equal. I have never once had anyone choose the 24 inch M70s........ HEH.................

    We also worked very hard with North Fork for various different bullets in 458, some specifically for the 458 B&Ms. These bullets, the Solids in particular are every bit the equal to the #13 Solids we did with CEB. We even did a different band configuration from normal North Fork bands, and the bullet is damn good looking. I will see if I can find a pic of those...........

    You would be very hard pressed to beat the 458 B&M overall............. I have another that is set up for Alaska, Snow Camo Ultimate stock, 18 inch Stainless, and shoots nothing but the 250 Socom Raptor......... and weighs in at 6.5 lbs...............

    Well, Phil, you did it, you brought me out......... HEH HEH......

    I will watch for a few days to see if I can help anyone with anything......

    Michael
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2019 at 8:58 AM

  13. JakeH

    JakeH AH Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2017
    Messages:
    331
    Video/Photo:
    1
    Likes Received:
    307
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Member of:
    NRA
    Hunted:
    USA
    @michael458

    Unfortunately I haven’t had the pleasure of shooting with Billy yet but we’re both on another forum that’s specific to the Carolinas. Didn’t get a chance to go to one of shoots this past year but my brother and I are hoping that changes for this year. After all, it’s not but an hour or less from here to Conway.
     

  14. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    679
    Video/Photo:
    36
    Likes Received:
    664
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    Thanks so much for the response @michael458 !!!
    When someone wants to do such a project, do you need to provide your own action, or does JD Jones keep some on hand?
    Also, do these cartridges also work well with traditional bullets like the 450 Grain Barnes tsx or Swift A Frame?
     

  15. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    679
    Video/Photo:
    36
    Likes Received:
    664
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    Also, since the case capacity is similar to the 458 Win Mag, does it use similar charge weights?
     

  16. michael458

    michael458 AH Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Video/Photo:
    8
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Hi Jake...... Yeah, you need to get down visit with Billy some for sure, I have taken a peak at the Carolina's forum, but never joined, there is no big bore rifle stuff there... LOL...... But Billy loves it, and has made many really good friends over there...........You will have to make a plan to come visit here as well when you do, make Billy drag you over..........

    Toby.........
    You can send your own action to BRIAN at SSK..... Do not speak to anyone but Brian..... I love JD, but Brian has always handled the B&Ms and has everything in order. Call, ask for Brian and don't mess with anyone else....

    Send your own action, but make sure its Control Feed... If building a 458 B&M, use nothing but a Winchester M70 WSM Control Feed action, don't matter what caliber/cartridge as long as it is WSM Control feed......... Standard B&M specs are NECG barrel band front and adjustable rears, matte or hi polish blue. Personally, I like the GunKote Finish, it is amazing, and I think even better than stainless in wet conditions. I had that gun for extended time in Zimbabwe, dragging in the dirt and dust for weeks. It looked awful, figured the finish was ruined. Got home, lightly wipe it with some oil, looked brand new, not a scratch, rub, nothing...... Costs a bit more, but well worth it in the end............

    Yes, I used 450 Swifts for the first buffalo with 458 B&M and 450 Barnes FN with great success. Have shot buffalo with 500 Woodleighs at 2120 fps in 20 inch guns. There are many good .458 caliber bullets out there, more conventional and traditional that are great with 458 B&M. For lesser critters, I love the 350 Barnes at 2400 fps...... I never used the 450 Barnes, but sure they would be fine. Today, I would use more conventional type bullets I would look at the North Forks. I have complete load data for nearly everything, pretty extensive............
     
    JakeH, Shootist43 and TOBY458 like this.

  17. michael458

    michael458 AH Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Video/Photo:
    8
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Yes, in most cases. But in most cases it is different powders. For instance, in 458 Winchester, 450 gr weight class AA/2230, IMR 8208, X-Terminator and V-N530 give the best results, highest velocity and lowest pressures. In 458 B&M the 450 Weight Class excels with TAC, AA 2520, and running just a tad back is IMR 8208.
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  18. TOBY458

    TOBY458 AH Fanatic

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    679
    Video/Photo:
    36
    Likes Received:
    664
    Location:
    Madison Georgia, USA
    I've always thought the 450 grain bullets would be best in the 458 Win Mag. I had used some 450 Barnes Banded Solids at one time while playing around with a Winchester 70 I used to have. I was able to get good velocities and fairly light recoil from them. I hate that Barnes quit making them. I guess the Northfork and CEB solids would work just as well though. I was thinking you could mate a CEB or NF solid with a Barnes 450gr TSX, for the best of both worlds. (Can you tell I like Barnes Bullets?)
    I love your concept of a light, short package that's easy to carry and maneuver in the bush. That's why I think the Ruger Alaskan and Guide gun have done so well. I think if Winchester came out with something similar, they would sell better than their big 24" barrel rifles. I currently have a Win 70 in 416 Rem Mag, and although it's less than 10lbs with the scope installed, it just feels a bit cumbersome to carry. And to me, the longer barrels are just too slow to get into action. On the other hand, I just bought a Ruger Alaskan in 416 Ruger with a 20" barrel, and it feels much better.
    Anyway, thanks so much for your participation in this thread!
     

  19. michael458

    michael458 AH Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    Video/Photo:
    8
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    South Carolina
    Toby..... With todays premium bullets in 458 caliber, both 458 Winchester and 458 Lott are enhanced, there is absolutely zero reason to go to 500 gr or heavier in .458 caliber, regardless of cartridge capacity. When you exit broadside elephant, how much more do you want? For absolute zero doubt, in 458 Winchester capacity, 450s will do anything you want and then some.....

    The North Fork and Cutting Edge Solids are SUPERIOR to the banded FN Barnes solid. I have tested both of course, and have used both in the field. If I could not get North Forks or CEBs, then I would go to the Barnes FN Banded..... FN ONLY..........

    Talking 416s... I have a little 416 B&M 18 inch gun, again same story, 6.5 lbs... short and handy, very much a pleasure to carry around, and will do anything you want to do with 416 caliber....
     
    TOBY458 likes this.

  20. AZDAVE

    AZDAVE AH Elite

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Messages:
    1,070
    Video/Photo:
    108
    Likes Received:
    1,117
    Hunted:
    South Africa, Alaska,lower 48
    Good morning all, Where do I start with my adventure with the 458 B&M. @PHOENIX PHIL and I were discussing double rifles. (We have successfully added him to the double club(y)) and he brought up a handy little rifle that he had called a 458 B&M after our conversation I looked up the B&M lineup and contacted @michael458 and we worked out a plan to get a 20in version in the synthetic built for me (Read alaska wet). I have had the rifle for a little while and it shoot most anything I have shot in it WELL. Have several loads for the CEB 450gr that I like. I am currently getting it ready for a alaska spring black bear hunt. Shooting the barnes 300gr SOCOM bullet on this hunt. I will post a report when we get back. Very handy rifle that packs a punch far larger than is size
     
    PHOENIX PHIL and TOBY458 like this.

Share This Page

 
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice