How many shots?

Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by bruce moulds, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. sierraone

    sierraone AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    My first trip 3 animals, 3 shots with one bad shot, son finished it off. Second trip 3 animals 3 shots. Carried 40 rounds on each trip.
     

  2. ve7poi

    ve7poi AH Enthusiast

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    Plains game overall 1.5
    DG 4 + insurance shot
    I normally take 40 rounds for planes game and 20 for Dangerous Game
     

  3. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

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    brickburn,
    your rate is improving.
    good on you.
    bruce.
     

  4. Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris

    Tally-Ho Hunting Safaris SPONSOR Since 2015 AH Fanatic

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    From a PH side
    In 10+ years experience and this is with some really terrible hunters so this should give a good average
    Plains game ave about 1.2 shots per animal
    Big game or dangerous game ave about 2.5 shots per animal

    Regards
     
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  5. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    More knowledge of anatomy, more knowledge of the bush, more knowledge of the bullets performance in the bush, etc.
    Of course, if you removed those insurance shots the stats would improve yet again. However, stats are much less important than getting the job done quickly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  6. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    As I have been thinking, I also had to shoot a sable twice in Mozambique. I think you will find for most American and Canadian hunters, the ratio of one shot kills on plains game is very high.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  7. Nyati

    Nyati AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Practice, practice... I even shoot an air rifle indoors.
     
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  8. Beretta391

    Beretta391 AH Senior Member

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    We have targets setup in the backyard and shoot our pellet gun off the sticks!! All practice helps!!
     
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  9. One Day...

    One Day... GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Hello Bruce;
    I like the way you ask the question: "real world statistics," so I will divide my answer in 4 parts:

    1) Raw data

    1 trip to Africa

    Took 58 rounds of .340 Wby
    Brought back 1
    Shot 4 to check zero
    Shot 53 rounds at game
    Shot 22 animals
    Mathematical average on game: 2.4 (Wow!?!?!?!? but see Context here under)

    Took 34 rounds of .470 NE (14 DGX 20 DGS) - I had the notion to use the double if I could on everything relatively large up close in thick bush, but ended up only hunting buff in thick bush...
    Shot 2 (right & left) on a paper plate at the PH request upon arriving in camp
    Shot 1 at a buffalo.
    Mathematical average on game: 1.0 (why so different? see Context here under)

    2) Context for interpretation

    I - My plains game PH asked me to keep shooting the larger antelopes as long as they stood. I did not feel it was my place to argue. So, I double shot a number of animals (blesbok, gemsbok, black wildebeest, red hartebeest, eland, waterbuck, kudu, blue wildebeest, etc.). I would estimate that most second shots were not required e.g. If you click to view full size you can see two exit holes side by side. That probably cost me 6 to 8 rounds.

    II - I was surprised at the number of times animals that were mortally hit (bullet through the chest cavity) were not completely dead when we came to them, and I am reluctant to see them suffer. The PH wanted to just wait, but I elected to deliver a number of finishing mercy shots to animals laying on the ground and dying. That cost me another half dozen rounds or so.

    III - At my PH's request, I took 3 or 4 "scaring shots" at baboons running uphill 400+ yd away that were repeatedly blowing away our stalks on mountain reedbok. Wasted ammo...

    The buff was doubled-lunged, collapsed in 30 yard, gave the death below, and was so obviously stone dead when we got to him that the PH did not ask me to shoot an insurance shot...

    3) Interpreted data

    Could have shot around 35 to 38 rounds at plains game (without double shots, finishers, etc.)
    Shot 22 animals
    Mathematical average on game: 1.6 to 1.7

    4) Learning points

    Not a very good average, because I made mistakes…

    Too my growing amazement, I missed a Red Hartebeest 3 times between 200 and 250 yards !?!?!?!? until dropping the firing pin on an empty chamber revealed a fantastic trigger jerk !?!?!? I had thought I had been immunized a long time ago against that, but I guess that the excitement of being at long last in Africa got the better of me… Nyati 's diagnostic would be that I failed to stay calm. That would be correct: kid in a candy store the first day... As soon as I realized the issue it was cured, but it cost me 3 rounds.

    I misjudged the walking speed and slight quartering away angle on a long shot at the kudu at last light after chasing him all afternoon with the PH repeating "He's a monster! He's a funken monster!" – too far forward (broke the shoulder ahead of the chest cavity), and I misjudged the shot at full trot into a strong wind at the blue wildebeest – too far back (gut shot). Each took 3 shots. My bad.

    +1 on practice before going. I shoot off hand a small 4" aluminum plate with a "full size" .22 (modern production of Winchester Model 52 B Sporter).

    Live and learn...

    Bottom line: bring a lot of ammo. Depending on the outfitter / PH you may shoot more than you think. I could also have shot another 2 or 3 culls at $0 cost had I been willing, but I preferred other activities (locating escaped rhinos with helicopter, visiting prehistorical camp with rock painting, etc. ... (see https://www.africahunting.com/threa...-2018-plains-game-paradise.45017/#post-474357)
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018

  10. bruce moulds

    bruce moulds AH Fanatic

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    this thread has proven to be more interesting than i thought.
    the honesty of the answers is what did it, and is most appreciated.
    the low shot to kill ratio is a credit to those who answered.
    some have been unhappy with ther ratio, but this reflects a responsible attitude, and a desire to always improve, or do your best - most admirable.
    if ever i can get to africa, there is a tremendous ammount of valuable advice here from experience.
    bruce.
     

  11. Spooksar

    Spooksar AH Fanatic

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    3 shots per trip checking sites, 33 plains game in 7 hunts 40 shots. 2 Buffalo 8 shots, 1 Elephant 2 shots and 1 Hippo 1 shot. I take 40-50 rounds per rifle with me just in case.
     
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  12. Von S.

    Von S. AH Fanatic

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    A fella on another thread said that we should keep shoveling the coal to him as long as he's moving makes absolute perfect sense to me. He also said that it isn't like you're taking the meat home anyway.

    An Impala with his heart gone..... Absolutely gone, opens the throttle with the dead man switch removed and runs faster than I drive a car eventually nose dives into the dirt even though he's been dead for the last 15 seconds that Africa has some of the hardest to drop animals on this planet .

    A absolutely excellent shot with a "iffy" African plains game stopping rifle is most assuridly going to use more rounds to hammer game to the ground than a fella who uses something much more powerful with the right projectiles. Something I learned a long time ago.

    I like the time honored tradition of everyone sighting in at camp. It let's the hunter know if his weapon is on as well as it let's everyone know who's shooting stinks on ice. I have only ever seen one rifle ever not function due to travel damage and if you need to do sight in adjustment I would be leary about it staying in sight from shot to shot. This is why qd mounts and two scopes per rifle, though I've never has to use the second one.

    A neck shot with a 458 with a 350 gr loaded to psychotic velocities and nothing moves, two feet at most when you blow the front end off.

    The 375 with a 300 gr bullet and the results are about the same.

    Best of luck.
     

  13. Ragman

    Ragman AH Elite

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    There was a significant difference in my shooting between my first safari in 2014 to my second one in 2018, the latter being much better.

    2014 hunt in Namibia:
    Steenbok - 1 shot
    Gemsbok - 1 shot
    Baboon - 1 shot
    Warthog - 1 shot
    Red Hartebeest - 3 shots. Missed one, wounded one and killed one on my third opportunity.
    Impala - 3 shots. Wounded one, missed one and killed the same one I wounded two days previously.
    Total - 6 animals with 10 shots fired. Hunted with my 7mm Rem Mag.

    2018 South Africa hunt:
    Nyala - 1 shot
    Bushbuck - 1 shot
    Kudu - 2 shots. First shot hit the bull in the abdomen. Finished him with a second shot when the dog bayed him up.
    Waterbuck - 1 shot
    Springbok - 2 shots. First shot hit in front of the hind quarters and put him down. Second shot was the finisher.
    Blue Wildebeest - 1 shot
    Blesbok - 1 shot
    Porcupine - 1 shot
    Total - 8 animals with 10 shots. Hunted with my PHs .300 Win Mag for the plains game and .223 for porcupine.
     
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  14. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    First hunt in 2013. I used a custom .45 smokeless muzzleloader, 200 gr. SSTs, shots 195 to 330 yards, and a .17 Fireball 25 gr Nagels, all less than 150 yards, some at night. Two animals needed a second shot to kill them and there were a couple misses.

    16 shots 12 animals. 1.33 per animal.
     

  15. mark-hunter

    mark-hunter AH Fanatic

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    I am not sure does it include the insurance shot, or shot of mercy, or coupe de grace?
    But... calc is following.

    1st safari, 5 heads of PG game: 7 shots, no misses (one included for shot of mercy plus one to bring down wounded oryx)

    2nd safari: 8 heads od PG game: 12 shots, no misses.
    (impala wounded, and while tracking it took me 2 additional shots - without miss but with poor hits, zebra down on one shot in high shoulder, but took 2 more as shot of mercy, but first one would be suficient.)

    So, total is 13 heads of game, 19 shots. No misses, so either chasing wounded animal, or additional shot of mercy.

    Additionally, 2 shots on paper target, per safari to check and zero the rifle.
     

  16. buffybr

    buffybr AH Enthusiast

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    I have only taken one Buffalo and one Leopard, and they only required one shot apiece. Most of my PG animals also only required one shot, however there were a few that required more.

    I usually take 40 rounds for each rifle. On my first trip to Mozambique I only took one rifle but I took 40 rounds with TTSX bullets for Sable or larger PG animals and 20 rounds loaded with FMJ bullets for the smallest PG animals.

    When I went through Customs upon my arrival I was told that I could only bring in a total 40 cartridges (per rifle ?). That cost me almost an additional hour at Customs on my arrival and another hour at my departure.
     

  17. One Day...

    One Day... GOLD SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    There is various "information" on the internet regarding the subject: maximum of 100 rounds per gun; maximum of 200 rounds total; prohibition of leaving the country with unfired ammo; etc. and it is not always country specific...

    My understanding is that for South Africa, at the current time (circa August 2018):
    1) South Africa allows one person to import up to 200 rounds of ammo per firearm (maximum of 4 firearms, but not more than 1 per caliber);
    2) All airlines limit the ammo to 11 lbs;
    3) South Africa allows leaving the country with unfired ammo;
    4) South Africa Airline requires ammo to be checked separately from checked luggage on internal flights;
    5) South African Airlines and US airlines allow ammo to be included inside checked luggage (not in the rifle case obviously) for international flights.

    One is likely to reach 11 lbs, before the 200 rounds per gun count unless bringing 22 lr ;-) For example, the bizarre numbers I listed in my previous post: 58 rounds of .340 Wby and 34 rounds of .470 NE (14 DGX & 20 DGS) resulted from weighing the ammo (including the container and lock) to come just at 10 lbs 15 oz:

    DSC00547.JPG

    I use a MTM Travel-Survivor dry box (size large) for the ammo, which I put in my duffel bag for international flight, and check separately in South Africa.

    To avoid the painless arguing at customs, police, security, etc. I use Afton House to secure a pre-approved SAPS 520, which includes the number of rounds imported, and to walk me at the airport through the various customs, police, security, etc. I believe that it is $100 well spent because I really HATE the haggling with misinformed or tip-chasing various "officials."

    PS: I also use a MTM Travel-Survivor dry box (size small) to carry the bolt(s) in my checked luggage as a deterrent to rifle theft...
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2018

  18. Hogpatrol

    Hogpatrol AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    #4 I've done it both ways, separate and in my checked bag. Depends on the ticket agent.
     

  19. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Having twice arrived at a hunting destination without my checked bag but with a rifle, I am never separating the bolt - ever. That is essentially like packing the barrels and action for one of my double rifles separately. I am not doing that either. In my experience, ammo is much easier to find than a bolt. ;) Just saying. I also doubt the typical numskull making off with a rifle in a baggage area is doing a careful inspection of it to see what might be missing.
     
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  20. Huntndog

    Huntndog AH Member

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    I shot seven shots at five animals on my plains game hunt. One was a miss; one a follow up.
     

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