Double Rifle suggestions for a first double rifle?

[dhughes66]

Hi all, I have dreamed of owning a double rifle since I was a kid. I hope to fulfill that dream in the next five to ten years. I would like other people's opinions on caliber and make. I will say it would have to be in the lower end of the double rifle price range. I would love a Heym 89B or the new Rigby boxlock, but I doubt I will ever be able to afford those. Realistically I would be looking at a Merkel, Chapius, Rizzini, or something in that price range. I would like either a 450/400NE or a 470NE. If you were to get your first double in that price range what would you get?

 

[LimbNoMo]

Chapuis .450/400ne. @Tom Leoni is an invaluable resource to AH and its members.

2nd choice Merkel in the same caliber.

 

[kpoynter]

I bought a VC .450/.400 and have been super happy
Price range is a huge input…
To me a huge issue was my preference on looks of the rifle and quality of course.
My VC is gorgeous and a great relative price IMO
I didn’t and don’t like the looks of many. Heym has a bade rep last few years on service etc. but that is due to demand and capacity.
I believe many have (to me) strange opinions on doubles (meaning largely hypothetical and strong opinions on perceived quality that no normal person could tell..)
Sort of like people debating stereos or optics when 99.99% of people could never tell the difference (or pretend to)

 

[Philip Glass]

Hi all, I have dreamed of owning a double rifle since I was a kid. I hope to fulfill that dream in the next five to ten years. I would like other people's opinions on caliber and make. I will say it would have to be in the lower end of the double rifle price range. I would love a Heym 89B or the new Rigby boxlock, but I doubt I will ever be able to afford those. Realistically I would be looking at a Merkel, Chapius, Rizzini, or something in that price range. I would like either a 450/400NE or a 470NE. If you were to get your first double in that price range what would you get?

First of all what is your intention for this double? Collectors gun or DG rifle?
I may look at this differently. I would not be looking for "my first double". This indicates you will upgrade later possibly. I would try to buy the very best you can afford from the beginning. I know so many who poor mouthed around and bought this cheap one and then that cheap one and spent all kinds of money on them only to finally buy a quality double. In the end spending far more that if they had just bought the good one to start with!
Ask many questions, shop around online, come to SCI in Nashville and speak to all the gun makers, and of course keep posting here on AH! Shoot others .470 and .450/400 to compare.
In any case many of us recommend a good inspection of any double going in a DG safari by JJ Perodeau.
Happy Double shopping!

 

[Major Bonkers]

The best advice that I can give you is to haunt auction websites and go from there. I have previously provided a list at: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/is-a-rigby-worth-it.68478/page-5#post-901104

The reality to us impoverished Britons and Europeans, labouring under the socialist yoke, is that these rifles are expensive and difficult to shoot. For example, despite owning a .470NE myself, I am not permitted to shoot it in the UK. The result is that a lot of these rifles are in very good second-hand condition. They are cheaper to buy in Europe than in America and - although I have exported from the US to the UK and not the other way round - I am convinced that one can still buy such rifles cheaper in Europe and export them to the land of the free cheaper than buying them in the US.

Other help is available from the great Rookhawk and his thread Good gun deals this week. Under no circumstances commission a custom rifle, which is the most expensive way of going about business.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Hi all, I have dreamed of owning a double rifle since I was a kid. I hope to fulfill that dream in the next five to ten years. I would like other people's opinions on caliber and make. I will say it would have to be in the lower end of the double rifle price range. I would love a Heym 89B or the new Rigby boxlock, but I doubt I will ever be able to afford those. Realistically I would be looking at a Merkel, Chapius, Rizzini, or something in that price range. I would like either a 450/400NE or a 470NE. If you were to get your first double in that price range what would you get?

Gotta love Merkels.
.470 Nitro Express will be the easiest to source factory loaded ammunition & reloading components for.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

The most flexible calibre would be 450/400, it is ideal for buffalo, capable of elephant and can do any and all of the antelope. As to make, since price is a constraint I would list Merkel or Chapuis. They are both very good, but Merkel has the Greener crossbolt third lockup, which is nice to have.
I would look for one that has fitted scope mounts, so you can fit a scope for longer range PG hunts, sighted in to the left or right barrel.

If you consider Chapuis take a good look at the Iphisi, the no frills budget model. It is standardly available in 375H&H and I believe a 450/400 is coming.

 

[rookhawk]

Hi all, I have dreamed of owning a double rifle since I was a kid. I hope to fulfill that dream in the next five to ten years. I would like other people's opinions on caliber and make. I will say it would have to be in the lower end of the double rifle price range. I would love a Heym 89B or the new Rigby boxlock, but I doubt I will ever be able to afford those. Realistically I would be looking at a Merkel, Chapius, Rizzini, or something in that price range. I would like either a 450/400NE or a 470NE. If you were to get your first double in that price range what would you get?

Yes, 450-400 and 470NE are ideal calibers.

I'm probably the biggest double rifle fan on this forum. Your question is posited almost every week. I'll recap my consistent response:

$10,000-$15,000 gets you a world class magazine rifle you'll enjoy the rest of your life. For that same price you'll get a terrible double rifle that leads to a lot of regrets. If you cannot afford a new/used British double or Heym, I recommend you avoid double rifles.

There is a LOT to double rifles including: 1.) Will anyone work on it? 2.) Can I get parts? 3.) Does it regulate? 4.) Are they structurally durable? 5.) What kind of bullets will work in it? 6.) Who will regulate it? 7.) Who will build the required handloads for it?

 

[mdwest]

I'll lead with I HAVE NEVER OWNED A DOUBLE, NOR DO I INTEND ON OWNING ONE... I thought about it very seriously at one time.. and even did a little shopping.. and then determined I'd be personally better served with a couple of really nice magazine rifles rather than a double....

That said, Ive handled quite a few, and have a substantial number of friends that own and shoot them regularly..

Based on the feedback Ive gotten from them, and from what Ive seen here on AH, of the choices you lay out, I think Chapuis would be where I start.. While not common, I have heard complaints about Merkel from time to time.. and I just dont know enough about the Rizzini options to even know where to start (although they make some absolutely wonderful double shotguns)...

We have a member here that is an invaluable source of information on Chapuis (@Tom Leoni )... and there are a good number of members here that own and/or have owned Chapuis, and I cant recall any of them ever saying they regretted making the purchase..

Were I shopping for a NEW double DG rifle, a Chapuis in 470 is likely where I'd focus my search..

Were I shopping for a double rifle in general (to include used), my aperture would be opened much more widely.. For example, I've seen some beautiful turn of the 20th century Army-Navy doubles go for only marginally more than a Chapuis or Merkel..

For example there is an Army-Navy 450/400 3 1/4 NE currently on Guns International for $16,495.... that seems a lot more attractive to me than a new Capuis or Merkel.. although since I acknowledge that I know little to nothing about doubles, before I went and dropped 5 figures on a rifle that would likely only get hunted 3-4 times in the rest of my lifetime, I'd be hitting up members like @rookhawk , @Red Leg , @ActionBob , and @Houston Bill for as much information and advice as possible.. I know they all have much better insight and knowledge when it comes to doubles than I ever will..

Army & Navy 450-400 3 1/4 NE Box Lock for sale

Army & Navy 450-400 3 1/4 NE Box Lock for sale online.

www.gunsinternational.com

Also understand that FOR ME, I dont really look at firearms as investment purchases.. I do trade, swap, etc.. quite a bit.. but I go into each purchase at least thinking/planning to keep the firearm for the rest of my life.. so I focus far more on what I think I can afford, what I think I really want, and whether or not Im really going to use it.. and focus far less than many others on whether or not I will get my money back out of the rifle or make money on the rifle in the long run..

 

[AZDAVE]

First I would seek out someone who lives close to you and shoot a double in those calibers.
Second what is your intent for the rifle? several DG hunts in africa etc or just paper and deer? That could drive the discussion to different calibers.

You didn't completely mention your intended budget so I will throw up a couple in 3 price points.
NEW doubles
20-30K 1. Heym 89B 2. VC round body
10-20K 1a Chapuis 1b Krieghoff 3. Merkel

10K below Chapuis 9.3x74 RGEX or UGEX in 9.3x74

USED
20-30K 1. Vintage British double 2. Used Heym or VC
10-20K 1. Vintage verified by JJ Perodeau. or Chapuis, Krieghoff, Merkel

MAKE SURE you really want a double and are willing to put in the time, funds, and shooting time to get completely familiar with your double and its limitations.

For the price of a double you can get a spectacular bolt gun

 

[Red Leg]

Hi all, I have dreamed of owning a double rifle since I was a kid. I hope to fulfill that dream in the next five to ten years. I would like other people's opinions on caliber and make. I will say it would have to be in the lower end of the double rifle price range. I would love a Heym 89B or the new Rigby boxlock, but I doubt I will ever be able to afford those. Realistically I would be looking at a Merkel, Chapius, Rizzini, or something in that price range. I would like either a 450/400NE or a 470NE. If you were to get your first double in that price range what would you get?

I would urge you to shoot one a few times so that you have a reasonable expectation of the accuracy and effective range of such a rifle. I would also offer you an observation from an old friend who is a PH in Mozambique. He would tell you that the only thing that really frightens him on a DG hunt is a client with his brand new double rifle.

The only truly practical double that I have owned for use as a client is a Blaser S2. It was created with the expectation that it would be used with a scope. Mine will put four LxR/LxR shots into less than 2.5 inches at 100 yards in all three chamberings (500/450, .375, or 30-06). Each barrel shoots MOA or better. You will be hard pressed to find a traditional double that will do that at fifty yards.

 

[rookhawk]

I would urge you to shoot one a few times so that you have a reasonable expectation of the accuracy and effective range of such a rifle. I would also offer you an observation from an old friend who is a PH in Mozambique. He would tell you that the only thing that really frightens him on a DG hunt is a client with his brand new double rifle.

The only truly practical double that I have owned for use as a client is a Blaser S2. It was created with the expectation that it would be used with a scope. Mine will put four LxR/LxR shots into less than 2.5 inches at 100 yards in all three chamberings (500/450, .375, or 30-06). Each barrel shoots MOA or better. You will be hard pressed to find a traditional double that will do that at fifty yards.

Your S2 is 500/450NE? That's a fairly obscure double rifle caliber for a modern era gun. Was that a bespoke idea of your doing, or is that a catalog caliber for the Blaser?

 

[VertigoBE]

The best advice that I can give you is to haunt auction websites and go from there. I have previously provided a list at: https://www.africahunting.com/threads/is-a-rigby-worth-it.68478/page-5#post-901104

The reality to us impoverished Britons and Europeans, labouring under the socialist yoke, is that these rifles are expensive and difficult to shoot. For example, despite owning a .470NE myself, I am not permitted to shoot it in the UK. The result is that a lot of these rifles are in very good second-hand condition. They are cheaper to buy in Europe than in America and - although I have exported from the US to the UK and not the other way round - I am convinced that one can still buy such rifles cheaper in Europe and export them to the land of the free cheaper than buying them in the US.

Other help is available from the great Rookhawk and his thread Good gun deals this week. Under no circumstances commission a custom rifle, which is the most expensive way of going about business.

Hey! Don’t give all these Americans too many ideas of buying their double in Europe! Soon there will be nothing left for us poor peasants!

 

[Red Leg]

Your S2 is 500/450NE? That's a fairly obscure double rifle caliber for a modern era gun. Was that a bespoke idea of your doing, or is that a catalog caliber for the Blaser?

LOL. It would be. I’ll blame it on trying to type on an IPhone. 509/416 - Loves a TSX load from Hendershot’s.

 

[Mr. T]

I relate to you @dhughes66. As a long time enthusiast and budget limited fellow myself, and having been watching and wishing for the better part of thirty years for the right opportunity to come about. After what has seemed like two lifetimes of research, reading and ogling, I can proudly say that I have finally made the leap on my first double rifle about a month ago. I was hoping to find something larger than my 458 Lott and that would also fit into my ~$10,000 range of spending. I ended up with a Chapuis Brousse in 470 NE. I cannot provide the great insight many others on this forum can, but will say this double is by far the most interesting and fun project I've entertained since learning to hunt and reload! Sadly, I found this forum only more recently, but have been on the **NOT**PERMITTED** and long range hunting forums for some time and have gained quite a bit of insight from both. Best luck with your endeavors and have faith in the deal that will eventually come your way!

 

[Red Leg]

LOL. It would be. I’ll blame it on trying to type on an IPhone. 509/416 - Loves a TSX load from Hendershot’s.

Jeez! Five Hundred / Four Sixteen

 

[rookhawk]

LOL. It would be. I’ll blame it on trying to type on an IPhone. 509/416 - Loves a TSX load from Hendershot’s.

It looks like they also made them in 470NE and 500NE. Impressive that they also have "stopping calibers" in a fairly svelte double rifle design.

 

[dhughes66]

Thanks for all the input. The Chapuis Iphisi in 450/400 is high on my list of the current options in what maybe one day my reasonable price range. To give more context, I plan/hope to go to Africa one day, but for the foreseeable future I would mostly use it on the range and to have fun deer and hog hunting with. I am hoping to go to the DSC show next year in Atlanta and look at many things that I can not afford right now. lol. I have bird hunted with a side by side shotgun with double triggers for almost 20 years so I am familiar with the manual of arms of using a side by side. I fully know and acknowledge that a very nice bolt action is much more practical, but I have a Ruger M77 in 375 H&H, 416 Rigby, and 458 Lott so I am covered on the basics on bolt actions. A new Rigby Big Game is a dream one day also though.

 

[Rare Breed]

Hi all, I have dreamed of owning a double rifle since I was a kid. I hope to fulfill that dream in the next five to ten years. I would like other people's opinions on caliber and make. I will say it would have to be in the lower end of the double rifle price range. I would love a Heym 89B or the new Rigby boxlock, but I doubt I will ever be able to afford those. Realistically I would be looking at a Merkel, Chapius, Rizzini, or something in that price range. I would like either a 450/400NE or a 470NE. If you were to get your first double in that price range what would you get?

Chapuis 450-400 NE for under $13,000 new from Champlain and George Caswell. They will cut the stock to perfectly fit your LOP and provide you a lifetime warranty. This was my second DR, Absolutely stay away from a Rizzini DR given too light for caliber and very poor engraving.

 

[rookhawk]

Chapuis 450-400 NE for under $13,000 new from Champlain and George Caswell. They will cut the stock to perfectly fit your LOP and provide you a lifetime warranty. This was my second DR, Absolutely stay away from a Rizzini DR given too light for caliber and very poor engraving.

Also remember Rizzini isn't a thing. It's MANY companies. I think there are SIX Rizzinis. FLLI Rizzini Makes $250,000 guns. The Rizzini that makes those 416 Rigby double rifles is not the same guys that make high dollar guns.