Comparison of the .500s

postoak

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According to Wikipedia the original load of the .500 Nitro Express was a 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps, for the .500 Jeffery it was a 535 grain bullet at 2350 fps, and the .505 Gibbs pushed a 525 grain bullet at 2300 fps.

Using load data from Barnes which makes all these bullets, powder charges are .500 NE - 93.5 grs. (RL15), .500 Jeffery - 107 grs.(Varget), and .505 Gibbs - 138 grs. (RL22).

Case capacities are 138 grs., 158 grs., and 178 grs., respectively.

Using a standard weight of 11.5 pounds rifle, recoil figures are 75 lbs-ft., 88.5 lbs-ft., and 102 lbs-ft.

It's interesting to me how much effect on recoil the case capacity has as it necessitates a larger powder charge to get equivalent ballistics.

And yes, I'm bored from social isolation!
 

zephyr

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I'll add Max Pressures to the conversation
500NE............40.6k
505 Gibbs........39.0k
500 Jeff...........39.1k
 

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According to Wikipedia the original load of the .500 Nitro Express was a 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps, for the .500 Jeffery it was a 535 grain bullet at 2350 fps, and the .505 Gibbs pushed a 525 grain bullet at 2300 fps.

Using load data from Barnes which makes all these bullets, powder charges are .500 NE - 93.5 grs. (RL15), .500 Jeffery - 107 grs.(Varget), and .505 Gibbs - 138 grs. (RL22).

Case capacities are 138 grs., 158 grs., and 178 grs., respectively.

Using a standard weight of 11.5 pounds rifle, recoil figures are 75 lbs-ft., 88.5 lbs-ft., and 102 lbs-ft.

It's interesting to me how much effect on recoil the case capacity has as it necessitates a larger powder charge to get equivalent ballistics.

And yes, I'm bored from social isolation!

I load a 100gr of powder into my 500NE case. Velocity is quite mild at 2080 fps.
 

postoak

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What powder is that, Marius, a South African one?
 

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What powder is that, Marius, a South African one?

Rob,
At the moment, it is a South African powder, but that will change to Hodgdon, as soon as my current batch it done.
 

postoak

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It's interesting the NE has probably the best penetration of the original factory loads, and significantly less recoil. It's arguably the "best" of the .500s if you aren't handloading, but the one big drawback is the cost of a double rifle. I suppose you could get a Ruger #1 for not a lot of money, but then you lose that possibly vital second shot.
 

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It's interesting the NE has probably the best penetration of the original factory loads, and significantly less recoil. It's arguably the "best" of the .500s if you aren't handloading, but the one big drawback is the cost of a double rifle. I suppose you could get a Ruger #1 for not a lot of money, but then you lose that possibly vital second shot.

I think the only comment I could possibly add is that our application to the situation is different. To me, I think the Double rifle is vital, for my hunter, not so much.
 

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Tanks

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Wonder how components are for the other 500s. I tried to get some .500 NE brass, bought all Midway had (only 3 boxes of 20). None of the other online places had them in stock. Norma was out everywhere.
 

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I think the only comment I could possibly add is that our application to the situation is different. To me, I think the Double rifle is vital, for my hunter, not so much.
I agree, different jobs.
For the PH a double rifle can be a vital tool.
For the client, it's their job to place a proper first shot and RELOAD immediately.
If the client can do so with a double, by all means go for it.
But still be ready to reload after the second shot.
 

Tanks

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...
If the client can do so with a double, by all means go for it.
But still be ready to reload after the second shot.

And that should be really easy to be proficient with it. As a competitive USPSA shooter I am a big believer in dry fire. Few hours of practice a week (heck even a month) reloading a double rifle should be a no brainer. I'd make a couple of dummy rounds without any primers or powder just to be safe though. Then one can practice more realistically; fire, eject, reload, aim and fire again at a dry fire target. Use a timer so one can track progress.
 

zephyr

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No one has yet to address the original question which was
*****"It's interesting to me how much effect on recoil the case capacity has as it necessitates a larger powder charge to get equivalent ballistics".******
 

Tanks

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No one has yet to address the original question which was
*****"It's interesting to me how much effect on recoil the case capacity has as it necessitates a larger powder charge to get equivalent ballistics".******

Actually rather than just case capacity it is the type of powder and quantity. For example if you change the .500 NE powder to H-4831 then you need 113.5 grains to reach 2,150 which also brings the recoil impulse up to 88.6 lb/fts

So, if there were powders that required less powder in the case for the Jefferey and Gibbs at the same ballistics WHILE being safe then their recoil impulse would go down.
 

colorado

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It's interesting the NE has probably the best penetration of the original factory loads, and significantly less recoil. It's arguably the "best" of the .500s if you aren't handloading, but the one big drawback is the cost of a double rifle. I suppose you could get a Ruger #1 for not a lot of money, but then you lose that possibly vital second shot.

Heym used to make a bolt action rifle in 500 NE.
 

colorado

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I load the Barnes 570g TSX in my 500 Jeffery with 103g H4898 for 2300 fps. Recoil is sporty.
 

Paul Homsy

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According to Wikipedia the original load of the .500 Nitro Express was a 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps, for the .500 Jeffery it was a 535 grain bullet at 2350 fps, and the .505 Gibbs pushed a 525 grain bullet at 2300 fps.

Using load data from Barnes which makes all these bullets, powder charges are .500 NE - 93.5 grs. (RL15), .500 Jeffery - 107 grs.(Varget), and .505 Gibbs - 138 grs. (RL22).

Case capacities are 138 grs., 158 grs., and 178 grs., respectively.

Using a standard weight of 11.5 pounds rifle, recoil figures are 75 lbs-ft., 88.5 lbs-ft., and 102 lbs-ft.

It's interesting to me how much effect on recoil the case capacity has as it necessitates a larger powder charge to get equivalent ballistics.

And yes, I'm bored from social isolation!
There are four elements that contribute to recoil and that are essential to know in order to calculate the recoil of a particular firearm, all equally important.

The weight of the powder charge, weight of the bullet, speed of the bullet and weight of the firearm.
With the exact charges you provided; weight of bullets, speed of bullets and your weight of rifles of 11.5 pounds, the recoil is:
68.54 lbs, 79.37 lbs and 85.64 lbs respectively in the order which you provided.

The higher recoil figures you provided are accurate for a rifle weighing 10.5 pounds.
 

Paul Homsy

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I'll add Max Pressures to the conversation
500NE............40.6k
505 Gibbs........39.0k
500 Jeff...........39.1k
These are relatively low pressures compared to modern rounds and have what can be considered low recoil impulses which contributes to their tolerance by seasoned hunters. A low recoil impulse may have the same amount of recoil as a fast impulse which is felt much more because it takes place in a shorter period of time. Think of a fast slap on the shoulder compared to a slower shove of equal weight. The shove is easier to tolerate because if is spread over a longer fraction of time. The difference is in milliseconds.
 

Aussie_Hunter

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There are four elements that contribute to recoil and that are essential to know in order to calculate the recoil of a particular firearm, all equally important.

The weight of the powder charge, weight of the bullet, speed of the bullet and weight of the firearm.
With the exact charges you provided; weight of bullets, speed of bullets and your weight of rifles of 11.5 pounds, the recoil is:
68.54 lbs, 79.37 lbs and 85.64 lbs respectively in the order which you provided.

The higher recoil figures you provided are accurate for a rifle weighing 10.5 pounds.
My 500 Jeffery weighs 11.9 pounds, powder charge of 113.5 grains, bullet weight 600 grains, velocity 2205fps, recoil energy = 91.9ft/lbs
 

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