CBL Banned??

[HankBuck]

I never understood why as hunters we cannot all stand side by side. We all love the hunting industry but seem to constantly be at each others throats about seemingly everything. The anti-hunters are a strong unified group cause they all have 1 common goal. Us we argue about the littlest things. And forget about the big picture.

@STXhammer - many other posts mention this “Hunters should stand side x side etc..”. I certainly disagree and want to know that all Hunters do Not think a like and difference of opinions helps show Independent thinking - critical. Years ago New Jersey considered allowing Crossbow Hunting (it was Not legal in the 1990s). A Bow Hunting organization in NJ “Opposed it” strongly. Their reasoning was that it was too easy, required less skill than compound bows or traditional archery (which is true). Supporters argued that allowing Crossbows would “increase” Hunter participation and help stimulate interest in Hunting and increase license sales (which were declining since the 1970s). It would also support increased sales of sporting goods equipment, support jobs etc. Many also argued that ALL Hunters should support this and NOT disagree amongst themselves - present a “unified front”. Good points were presented on both sides but the “ALL Hunters should support ALL Hunting” was something I did Not agree with then or now. Many existing Bow Hunters did Not oppose Crossbow Hunting overall BUT thought it should be allowed during Gun Seasons and Not encroach on Bow Seasons - which was also my opinion. In the end it was “passed” and Now cross bow hunters likely out number all other forms or archery hunting. It is now “established & accepted” and although I don’t care for it - someday as I get older, will likely try it when I can No longer pull a bow back. Whatever ones opinion is on CBL - have your opinion because that’s what YOU think is right vs joining the “herd”. (That’s my opinion and Not worth anymore than anyone else’s).

 

[HookMeUpII]

@STXhammer - many other posts mention this “Hunters should stand side x side etc..”. I certainly disagree and want to know that all Hunters do Not think a like and difference of opinions helps show Independent thinking - critical. Years ago New Jersey considered allowing Crossbow Hunting (it was Not legal in the 1990s). A Bow Hunting organization in NJ “Opposed it” strongly. Their reasoning was that it was too easy, required less skill than compound bows or traditional archery (which is true). Supporters argued that allowing Crossbows would “increase” Hunter participation and help stimulate interest in Hunting and increase license sales (which were declining since the 1970s). It would also support increased sales of sporting goods equipment, support jobs etc. Many also argued that ALL Hunters should support this and NOT disagree amongst themselves - present a “unified front”. Good points were presented on both sides but the “ALL Hunters should support ALL Hunting” was something I did Not agree with then or now. Many existing Bow Hunters did Not oppose Crossbow Hunting overall BUT thought it should be allowed during Gun Seasons and Not encroach on Bow Seasons - which was also my opinion. In the end it was “passed” and Now cross bow hunters likely out number all other forms or archery hunting. It is now “established & accepted” and although I don’t care for it - someday as I get older, will likely try it when I can No longer pull a bow back. Whatever ones opinion is on CBL - have your opinion because that’s what YOU think is right vs joining the “herd”. (That’s my opinion and Not worth anymore than anyone else’s).

United we stand, divided we fall. Simple as that. I live in NJ so I can speak a bit about that. I don't know if you saw but they're now going the other way on it and placing all sorts of regulations on crossbow hunting. Draw weight, OAL, bolt size/speed, etc. I voiced my opinion against this despite not even owning a crossbow.

Why? Because what's next? Restrictions on draw weight of compounds? OAL of the compounds? Then do we eventually ban bowhunting here in general because it's not as effective in terms of lethality?

We can all argue around drinks about what we don't like/like what's ethical/unethical and so on. Opinions are fine and everyone is entitled to one.

What matters is how you vote. If someone votes "yes" to banning methods of take that might not be as ethical but not illegal, then they are no better than the purple-haired barista at Starbucks throwing paint on hunters checking in bears at the check-in station.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

United we stand, divided we fall. Simple as that. I live in NJ so I can speak a bit about that. I don't know if you saw but they're now going the other way on it and placing all sorts of regulations on crossbow hunting. Draw weight, OAL, bolt size/speed, etc. I voiced my opinion against this despite not even owning a crossbow.

Why? Because what's next? Restrictions on draw weight of compounds? OAL of the compounds? Then do we eventually ban bowhunting here in general because it's not as effective in terms of lethality?

We can all argue around drinks about what we don't like/like what's ethical/unethical and so on. Opinions are fine and everyone is entitled to one.

What matters is how you vote. If someone votes "yes" to banning methods of take that might not be as ethical but not illegal, then they are no better than the purple-haired barista at Starbucks throwing paint on hunters checking in bears at the check-in station.

This!

There is not a damn thing in this post worth 220+ posts, and absolutely nothing new...well, heck, probably in the last 100+ posts of those. Since I posted this morning about this dead horse not just turning rancid, there is little more and childish back biting.

As a group, us hunters/shooters/armchair experts and preachers, suck at letting go. It's why at some point, someone has to play the adult role in the room and stop some threads, not saying that should happen here, I am all for freedom of speech and think every single person in this thread as 100% right to their opinion regardless of how right, wrong, indifferent, or whiny it might be. I just see the worthless bickering something that is harmful to an aspect of my life that I love. I am a hunter. I am a father. At times I have been a husband, and am presently. I work for a living, but really do live to hunt. It matters to me. I also shoot. I enjoy long range shooting. Do I enjoy long range hunting, not my bag, but don't pass judgment on those that do if they have the skill and equipment to do so flawlessly.

Do I like the idea of someone hunting elk in yellowstone park with a handful of corn and a hammer...no. I don't like the idea of any animal being released from a trailer, or drugged, or dizzied as it would be for birds, or put into a small enclosure to be shot. And maybe I'm a horrible human being, but I honestly don't want to hear a bunch of people whine and moan about someone else doing it. NOW...if you video drugging a lion or an impala or a genetically engineered whitetail, release it from a pen or trailer into a slightly larger pen, then shoot it...dont put that BS on youtube or even bring it in here. I cannot imagine anyone in this forum is in favor of shooting some animal that is walking out of a trailer into a small enclosure...and if they did...not likely coming in to brag about it. That kind of practice is outwardly bad for hunting.

Trying to cast all other put and take hunting operations or any kind of "captive bred" animal into the above description sounds like someone bent on an agenda, sewing ill will among folks that are in so many other way brethren.

So for those who just cannot help but complain, bemoan, whine about any kind of captive bred hunt or high fence hunt, for another few pages, please know that you too are bad for and hurting hunting. Not saying you are not entitled to your view or public speech, this thread proves the contrary true. Several have said it, said it again, and so on for pages upon pages. If you care about hunting, say what you need to say, debate it even, then move along, send a PM if you cannot hold your tongue, if you truly care, maybe get involved, petition for change, vote, but to simply continue to bash out key strokes...c'mon, we are better than this.

And I sure hope we can find some better things to talk about, because this passed boring, even irritating, several pages ago. To that end, can we talk about anything else. Dogs, hats, best country for old buffalo, what socks to wear in this month...hell, I'd happily even try to talk about golf or plains-game if it helps this whine-fest end...please.

And...for my whine or terse tone, I apologise. All I do is fight and argue all day long, I enjoy coming into this wonderful place filled with what is sometimes like-minded, gentlemanly men and women for a bit of respite...which this thread has torched and puked all over. Where gentlemanly comments or points shared, seems someone has to push further and cheapen it a notch or three...it saddens me, and today, I find it simply offensive, especially because I so much want to believe we are better than this as a group.

 

[Russ16]

This!

There is not a damn thing in this post worth 220+ posts, and absolutely nothing new...well, heck, probably in the last 100+ posts of those. Since I posted this morning about this dead horse not just turning rancid, there is little more and childish back biting.

As a group, us hunters/shooters/armchair experts and preachers, suck at letting go. It's why at some point, someone has to play the adult role in the room and stop some threads, not saying that should happen here, I am all for freedom of speech and think every single person in this thread as 100% right to their opinion regardless of how right, wrong, indifferent, or whiny it might be. I just see the worthless bickering something that is harmful to an aspect of my life that I love. I am a hunter. I am a father. At times I have been a husband, and am presently. I work for a living, but really do live to hunt. It matters to me. I also shoot. I enjoy long range shooting. Do I enjoy long range hunting, not my bag, but don't pass judgment on those that do if they have the skill and equipment to do so flawlessly.

Do I like the idea of someone hunting elk in yellowstone park with a handful of corn and a hammer...no. I don't like the idea of any animal being released from a trailer, or drugged, or dizzied as it would be for birds, or put into a small enclosure to be shot. And maybe I'm a horrible human being, but I honestly don't want to hear a bunch of people whine and moan about someone else doing it. NOW...if you video drugging a lion or an impala or a genetically engineered whitetail, release it from a pen or trailer into a slightly larger pen, then shoot it...dont put that BS on youtube or even bring it in here. I cannot imagine anyone in this forum is in favor of shooting some animal that is walking out of a trailer into a small enclosure...and if they did...not likely coming in to brag about it. That kind of practice is outwardly bad for hunting.

Trying to cast all other put and take hunting operations or any kind of "captive bred" animal into the above description sounds like someone bent on an agenda, sewing ill will among folks that are in so many other way brethren.

So for those who just cannot help but complain, bemoan, whine about any kind of captive bred hunt or high fence hunt, for another few pages, please know that you too are bad for and hurting hunting. Not saying you are not entitled to your view or public speech, this thread proves the contrary true. Several have said it, said it again, and so on for pages upon pages. If you care about hunting, say what you need to say, debate it even, then move along, send a PM if you cannot hold your tongue, if you truly care, maybe get involved, petition for change, vote, but to simply continue to bash out key strokes...c'mon, we are better than this.

And I sure hope we can find some better things to talk about, because this passed boring, even irritating, several pages ago. To that end, can we talk about anything else. Dogs, hats, best country for old buffalo, what socks to wear in this month...hell, I'd happily even try to talk about golf or plains-game if it helps this whine-fest end...please.

And...for my whine or terse tone, I apologise. All I do is fight and argue all day long, I enjoy coming into this wonderful place filled with what is sometimes like-minded, gentlemanly men and women for a bit of respite...which this thread has torched and puked all over. Where gentlemanly comments or points shared, seems someone has to push further and cheapen it a notch or three...it saddens me, and today, I find it simply offensive, especially because I so much want to believe we are better than this as a group.

I don’t see anything here as back biting or bickering. I think it is healthy debate which is what forums like this are for.

Conflict isn’t bad if done without malice. I don’t see any malice in this thread. Strong feelings yes but not malice.

 

[Rare Breed]

This!

There is not a damn thing in this post worth 220+ posts, and absolutely nothing new...well, heck, probably in the last 100+ posts of those. Since I posted this morning about this dead horse not just turning rancid, there is little more and childish back biting.

As a group, us hunters/shooters/armchair experts and preachers, suck at letting go. It's why at some point, someone has to play the adult role in the room and stop some threads, not saying that should happen here, I am all for freedom of speech and think every single person in this thread as 100% right to their opinion regardless of how right, wrong, indifferent, or whiny it might be. I just see the worthless bickering something that is harmful to an aspect of my life that I love. I am a hunter. I am a father. At times I have been a husband, and am presently. I work for a living, but really do live to hunt. It matters to me. I also shoot. I enjoy long range shooting. Do I enjoy long range hunting, not my bag, but don't pass judgment on those that do if they have the skill and equipment to do so flawlessly.

Do I like the idea of someone hunting elk in yellowstone park with a handful of corn and a hammer...no. I don't like the idea of any animal being released from a trailer, or drugged, or dizzied as it would be for birds, or put into a small enclosure to be shot. And maybe I'm a horrible human being, but I honestly don't want to hear a bunch of people whine and moan about someone else doing it. NOW...if you video drugging a lion or an impala or a genetically engineered whitetail, release it from a pen or trailer into a slightly larger pen, then shoot it...dont put that BS on youtube or even bring it in here. I cannot imagine anyone in this forum is in favor of shooting some animal that is walking out of a trailer into a small enclosure...and if they did...not likely coming in to brag about it. That kind of practice is outwardly bad for hunting.

Trying to cast all other put and take hunting operations or any kind of "captive bred" animal into the above description sounds like someone bent on an agenda, sewing ill will among folks that are in so many other way brethren.

So for those who just cannot help but complain, bemoan, whine about any kind of captive bred hunt or high fence hunt, for another few pages, please know that you too are bad for and hurting hunting. Not saying you are not entitled to your view or public speech, this thread proves the contrary true. Several have said it, said it again, and so on for pages upon pages. If you care about hunting, say what you need to say, debate it even, then move along, send a PM if you cannot hold your tongue, if you truly care, maybe get involved, petition for change, vote, but to simply continue to bash out key strokes...c'mon, we are better than this.

And I sure hope we can find some better things to talk about, because this passed boring, even irritating, several pages ago. To that end, can we talk about anything else. Dogs, hats, best country for old buffalo, what socks to wear in this month...hell, I'd happily even try to talk about golf or plains-game if it helps this whine-fest end...please.

And...for my whine or terse tone, I apologise. All I do is fight and argue all day long, I enjoy coming into this wonderful place filled with what is sometimes like-minded, gentlemanly men and women for a bit of respite...which this thread has torched and puked all over. Where gentlemanly comments or points shared, seems someone has to push further and cheapen it a notch or three...it saddens me, and today, I find it simply offensive, especially because I so much want to believe we are better than this as a group.

I think we every other month just kick a dead horse. no new thinking comes from these just the same people including me make our points and waste our time for about 12 pages. I’m done and moving on from it

 

[revturbo9967]

This!

There is not a damn thing in this post worth 220+ posts, and absolutely nothing new...well, heck, probably in the last 100+ posts of those. Since I posted this morning about this dead horse not just turning rancid, there is little more and childish back biting.

As a group, us hunters/shooters/armchair experts and preachers, suck at letting go. It's why at some point, someone has to play the adult role in the room and stop some threads, not saying that should happen here, I am all for freedom of speech and think every single person in this thread as 100% right to their opinion regardless of how right, wrong, indifferent, or whiny it might be. I just see the worthless bickering something that is harmful to an aspect of my life that I love. I am a hunter. I am a father. At times I have been a husband, and am presently. I work for a living, but really do live to hunt. It matters to me. I also shoot. I enjoy long range shooting. Do I enjoy long range hunting, not my bag, but don't pass judgment on those that do if they have the skill and equipment to do so flawlessly.

Do I like the idea of someone hunting elk in yellowstone park with a handful of corn and a hammer...no. I don't like the idea of any animal being released from a trailer, or drugged, or dizzied as it would be for birds, or put into a small enclosure to be shot. And maybe I'm a horrible human being, but I honestly don't want to hear a bunch of people whine and moan about someone else doing it. NOW...if you video drugging a lion or an impala or a genetically engineered whitetail, release it from a pen or trailer into a slightly larger pen, then shoot it...dont put that BS on youtube or even bring it in here. I cannot imagine anyone in this forum is in favor of shooting some animal that is walking out of a trailer into a small enclosure...and if they did...not likely coming in to brag about it. That kind of practice is outwardly bad for hunting.

Trying to cast all other put and take hunting operations or any kind of "captive bred" animal into the above description sounds like someone bent on an agenda, sewing ill will among folks that are in so many other way brethren.

So for those who just cannot help but complain, bemoan, whine about any kind of captive bred hunt or high fence hunt, for another few pages, please know that you too are bad for and hurting hunting. Not saying you are not entitled to your view or public speech, this thread proves the contrary true. Several have said it, said it again, and so on for pages upon pages. If you care about hunting, say what you need to say, debate it even, then move along, send a PM if you cannot hold your tongue, if you truly care, maybe get involved, petition for change, vote, but to simply continue to bash out key strokes...c'mon, we are better than this.

And I sure hope we can find some better things to talk about, because this passed boring, even irritating, several pages ago. To that end, can we talk about anything else. Dogs, hats, best country for old buffalo, what socks to wear in this month...hell, I'd happily even try to talk about golf or plains-game if it helps this whine-fest end...please.

And...for my whine or terse tone, I apologise. All I do is fight and argue all day long, I enjoy coming into this wonderful place filled with what is sometimes like-minded, gentlemanly men and women for a bit of respite...which this thread has torched and puked all over. Where gentlemanly comments or points shared, seems someone has to push further and cheapen it a notch or three...it saddens me, and today, I find it simply offensive, especially because I so much want to believe we are better than this as a group.

People who are tired of it are free to move on just as much as those who oppose CBL are free to speak. Calling criticism "whining” doesn't address the issue, it just expresses frustration that the issue won't go away.

The irony is that you admit releasing animals from trailers or drugging them, or shooting them in small enclosures is bad for hunting because of how it looks. So we're not arguing whether optics matter, we agree they do. The disagreement is simply where the line is.

History shows controversial practices don't disappear because people stop talking about them. They disappear because enough people keep talking about them. If a topic keeps resurfacing year after year, maybe it's not because people love arguing. Maybe it's because many hunters still don't believe the issue has been resolved. I would happily vote to end CBL shoots given the opportunity. Unfortunately, I don’t have that option, so speaking out is about all that's left. Silence changes nothing.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

No CBL lions right? I think some wild lions are importable to the US.

To further confuse you, there are also WML (Wild Managed Lion) Hunts in South Africa. These are also eligible to be approved for import into the US.

 

[Russ16]

To further confuse you, there are also WML (Wild Managed Lion) Hunts in South Africa. These are also eligible to be approved for import into the US.

Yes but very rare to my understanding and a very different experience.

 

[LivingTheDream]

History shows controversial practices don't disappear because people stop talking about them. They disappear because enough people keep talking about them. If a topic keeps resurfacing year after year, maybe it's not because people love arguing. Maybe it's because many hunters still don't believe the issue has been resolved.

This is true.

And to deviate further from this conversation, we need to pay attention what is going on in Oregon. It was Colorado last year. They are going to keep coming up on the ballot, the other side doesnt feel the issue has been resolved.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

Yes but very rare to my understanding and a very different experience.

Not sure I’d say very rare as they’re out there with a couple outfitters. Pricing is typically in line with a wild lion hunt, but travel is easier and the duration of the hunt is significantly shorter.

 

[HookMeUpII]

This is true.

And to deviate further from this conversation, we need to pay attention what is going on in Oregon. It was Colorado last year. They are going to keep coming up on the ballot, the other side doesnt feel the issue has been resolved.

This was in the back of my mind in this thread and I just forgot to mention it. Scary, scary stuff. They are basically through some clever legalese and structure, effectively banning the daylights out of all hunting. This is the way the world is going to work against us. I don't want to go too far off track on this but the far-left disease is spreading to places no one ever thought it would. Virginia is lost. NC is on the brink of flipping. Oregon which is a massively popular fishing/hunting state and one of the oldest frontiers in the west looks like they are trying to ban hunting.

So many people make valid points in this thread. @375Fox makes good points. So does @Wildwillalaska and @Rare Breed and so on. The problem is the more we talk about this, the more it's out there and gives ammo to the other side.