Can we please stop talking about "flat shooting" cartridges

[Hogpatrol]

That is a great method, i will try to do it with my 270 WSM & 140 grain NBTs, but it will take some time at the range That takes care of the elevation what method to you use for wind?

I'll go to the range and shoot 500 meters in a 90 degree crosswind at various steady state winds, from 5 to 20 mph. Match groups to windage tics on the reticle. Not 100% foolproof but will give something to work with. Ballistic apps help too.

 

[rdog]

I agree that the standard 280 Remington is a well balanced and versatile caliber for most hunting situations. I’m a life long 270 Winchester fan but I bought a 280 as a backup rifle and have come to appreciate the 280 for the wide range of bullets that can be hand loaded for it for different hunting situations. I shot this hog using 175 grain round nose in my 280. View attachment 501587
I think we are fortunate to have so many great calibers to debate about which is the best. It’s great marketing to introduce new calibers and it sells guns to a new “and old” generation of shooters so it keeps the industry moving forward so it’s a good thing. The thing to take note of is they don’t humanely kill game any more dead than the 119 year old 30-06.
Bob, you should jump on the PRC band wagon. I can see a 35PRC in your future!

Owning a 280 REM, 270 WIN, 270 WSM & 7mm REM in the real hunting world i do not think you could tell the difference in there ability to kill game at up to 400 meters. all this new gear, range finders, wind meters , scopes with ranging recitles are not that easy to use quickly in the field as game does not stand still long enough for you to get your shit together , good idea at the rifle range but not so easy in the bush or am i getting too old for all this new stuff?

 

[Hogpatrol]

Owning a 280 REM, 270 WIN, 270 WSM & 7mm REM in the real hunting world i do not think you could tell the difference in there ability to kill game at up to 400 meters. all this new gear, range finders, wind meters , scopes with ranging recitles are not that easy to use quickly in the field as game does not stand still long enough for you to get your shit together , good idea at the rifle range but not so easy in the bush or am i getting too old for all this new stuff?

You can substitute experience for a lot of the newfangled gizmonics.. If one hunts PDs, groundhogs, or other varmints at extended distances, the big stuff is a cakewalk.

 

[ChrisG]

You can substitute experience for a lot of the newfangled gizmonics.. If one hunts PDs, groundhogs, or other varmints at extended distances, the big stuff is a cakewalk.

Or use an air rifle to hunt stuff with a kill zone the size of a dime at 100-150 yards. Talk about compensating for drop and wind! I will say, my .25 Impact gives 90% of my rifles a run for their money at 100 yards, accuracy-wise, on a calm day. Picking off chipmunks that are infesting my property is great practice shooting in field conditions at various ranges, real cheap to shoot (if you don't count the price of the gun, compressor, scope, etc.), and helps get rid of a pest problem simultaneously!

It really does build your confidence when shooting at larger game. hunting experience and field shooting experience is experience, whether it is a chipmunk or a much larger animal. The more you do something the better you get at it and, as stupid as it sounds, helps you maintain your calm and not be susceptible to buck fever at the moment of the shot.

Now I need to do some night ratting out there....

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

 

[wolfhunter]

A friend of mine only hunts with a 45/70 he says there is never any tracking involved.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

A friend of mine only hunts with a 45/70 he says there is never any tracking involved.

Is that because he keeps shooting under everything beyond 100 yards away?

 

[wolfhunter]

he kills everthing with one shot

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

So you're saying stop talking about Ferrari's because if you put the used tires off a Toyota pickup truck from the 80's on them they don't corner meaningfully better than a Hyundai Tiburon when driving less than 30 MPH?

Your whole premise is trash.

 

[CBH Australia]

A friend of mine only hunts with a 45/70 he says there is never any tracking involved.

Sounds like Russ with his .458wm. it's his favourite cartridge. They say Sambar are tough but it's a big deer cartridge.

 

[Doug Hamilton]

he kills everthing with one shot

Sounds like Russ with his .458wm. it's his favourite cartridge. They say Sambar are tough but it's a big deer cartridge.

A .458 to hunt deer? I thought Bob told us that everyone should just use a .243.

Okay. I'm joking.

Merry Christmas to you and Bob.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

Owning a 280 REM, 270 WIN, 270 WSM & 7mm REM in the real hunting world i do not think you could tell the difference in there ability to kill game at up to 400 meters. all this new gear, range finders, wind meters , scopes with ranging recitles are not that easy to use quickly in the field as game does not stand still long enough for you to get your shit together , good idea at the rifle range but not so easy in the bush or am i getting too old for all this new stuff?

It's just an application issue. All of these tools are not for shooting 400 Meters. People are rather routinely shooting 3x that in a hunting scenario today. More than I expected are quite competent.

 

[akrifleman]

It's just an application issue. All of these tools are not for shooting 400 Meters. People are rather routinely shooting 3x that in a hunting scenario today. More than I expected are quite competent.

Even though I consider all of those cartridges all but the same, the difference in modern cartridges isn't just in terms of long range. The new rifles and cartridges of today simply have a higher hit probability under adverse conditions. That doesn't mean a 120 yr old rifle cannot be accurate. It simply means that the cases are designed for much more consistent combustion, the high BC bullets give up less energy and are less impacted by wind, and the throat geometries make for accurate rounds are in rifles in every price range. The best bullets today greatly outperform most bullets of yesterday. The more efficient cases promote more practice with less issues with case life, less powder, etc compared to their predecessors. Yes, a custom 30-06 ,270, or 243 can be accurate @1600 yds. Almost every "PRC" or "Creedmoor" type cartridges are out of the box, and without constraints. Perhaps we can just enjoy them all for what they are.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

A .458 to hunt deer? I thought Bob told us that everyone should just use a .243.

Okay. I'm joking.

Merry Christmas to you and Bob.

@Doug Hamilton
I would never tell that big of a li mate. I would use a 458 to hunt 243s tho. Should mess up them up well. It would bend barrels and shatter stocks nicely. Maybe I should stop using them for tomato stakes and use them for target practice. Would put them out of their misery.
Have a great Christmas with the family as Nd a better new year mate.
Look forward to more friendly banter in the future.
Bob

 

[Inline6]

@Doug Hamilton
I would never tell that big of a li mate. I would use a 458 to hunt 243s tho. Should mess up them up well. It would bend barrels and shatter stocks nicely. Maybe I should stop using them for tomato stakes and use them for target practice. Would put them out of their misery.
Have a great Christmas with the family as Nd a better new year mate.
Look forward to more friendly banter in the future.
Bob

We were members of a range. At 600 yards they had a test flange hanging up. It had a 3/4" hole in the middle of it. We would always try to shoot a few rounds through it. It did not happen all the time be We would slip a few in every now and the. Aim small miss small

 

[Jamie D Van Roekel]

A .458 to hunt deer? I thought Bob told us that everyone should just use a .243.

Okay. I'm joking.

Merry Christmas to you and Bob.

243 good for everything up to buff (Bob says). Lol

 

[Doug Hamilton]

he kills everthing with one shot

So he just never shoots at anything past 100 yards?

@Doug Hamilton
I would never tell that big of a li mate. I would use a 458 to hunt 243s tho. Should mess up them up well. It would bend barrels and shatter stocks nicely. Maybe I should stop using them for tomato stakes and use them for target practice. Would put them out of their misery.
Have a great Christmas with the family as Nd a better new year mate.
Look forward to more friendly banter in the future.
Bob

Merry Christmas my friend!
Doug

 

[colorado]

243 is a great deer cartridge. Anyone who has had bad luck with it needs to learn how to shoot. It's good out to 400 plus yards. I had one for five years, then traded up to a 270 because I was guiding in grizzly country. Back then I thought the 270 Win was a cannon!

 

[Doug Hamilton]

243 is a great deer cartridge. Anyone who has had bad luck with it needs to learn how to shoot. It's good out to 400 plus yards. I had one for five years, then traded up to a 270 because I was guiding in grizzly country. Back then I thought the 270 Win was a cannon!

One of the main problems with

 

[Doug Hamilton]

243 is a great deer cartridge. Anyone who has had bad luck with it needs to learn how to shoot. It's good out to 400 plus yards. I had one for five years, then traded up to a 270 because I was guiding in grizzly country. Back then I thought the 270 Win was a cannon!

"Anyone who has problems with it needs to learn how to shoot." One of the main problems with the .243 is that people buy these for kids because they don't have much recoil. Kids are learning to shoot, and the result is more wounded deer. Then you have the issue of things going slightly wrong even for very experienced hunters. Anyone that says they are such good shooters that they never misplace a shot while hunting is lying.
Will a .243 kill a deer or even an elk with precise shot placement? Obviously, yes, it can be done with even smaller cartridges, but that does not make any ofbthem