Broadheads

[Altitude sickness]

The primary issue I see with expanding BHs is too low total arrow weight for the BH design.

I stopped watching whitetail deer hunting shows long ago. Too boring and couldn’t stand the booya, smackdown BS.

But watching those shows I was always shocked at how many Whitetails ran off with an arrow sticking out of their side, flopping in the breeze.

There isn’t a bone on a whitetail that should stop a broad head or arrow. at any angle. With a modern compound bow. IF you have a proper BH, arrow weight and perfect arrow flight.

 

[archer36]

I agree with some of your points but I’ve seen hundreds of animals taken by bow. You got that part wrong.

I didn't specifically say YOU. Just in general.

 

[Scott CWO]

The two healed bulges in two different ribs on a 300 pound mule deer from a big expandable broadhead hit in November. The broadhead opened up too large and could not penetrate into the cavity through two ribs, let alone the heart. Placement was good - should have been a heart shot. I was an eyewitness. A two-blade fixed broadhead would not have hit two ribs and this deer would be dead.

Same exact deer below in early December, after losing 50 pounds of fat in the rut, taken with rifle. These aren’t 150 pound deer. They are big-bodied, corn and alfalfa fed Plains deer. I’ve weighed carcasses without guts, blood, skin, head or lower legs that weighed 285 pounds.

 

[rookhawk]

I have switched to Iron Will and a few other overbuilt BHs
Too many are not sharp enough or strong enough.

Also, the arrow needs to be flying perfectly straight and no flopping around when it impacts the animal.

if it’s flexing while it’s impacting the animal, you lose a ton of penetration. The nock needs to be perfectly behind the broad head as it penetrates.

I prefer stiffer spine than the charts call for and get my tune in other ways.

Here I did a destructive test on an Iron Will 250 Broadhead that I had already punched through a Cape buffalo.

I shot the same broadhead over and over again through Big Angus femurs.

I shot the same head multiple times and it showed no impact so I started shooting through two bones at a time. Eventually, the Ferrell showed damage, and I saw some minor chipping.

27” arrows, 1028 grains 75 pound Mathews

I have since switched to traditional equipment, so these factors are even more important


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Jay, I love the total arrow weight. I love the insert. I love the broadhead. Why would you rob yourself of FOC and have to contend with dented and work hardened aluminum by using an FMJ? Treat yourself to a Sirius Archery arrow. I haven't used their newer 4mm, but you will get even better penetration with the micro shaft. I'm using I think the Apollo 5mm? Very happy with them. Everything else in my setup matches yours. (although my regular arrow for do-all is 650gr, I don't have a 1000gr buffalo setup built at present)

 

[Altitude sickness]

Rookhawk, I have since switched to the Valkyrie system, which is exactly as you describe. I killed the Eland in the picture posted here with a 49 pound recurve using that Valkyrie system

The FMJ system pictured had high 20% not quite 30% FOC
150 grain brass inserts inside of the shaft behind the broadhead

 

[BSO Dave]

Agree. But, there are countless reports of the effectiveness of these heads. I don't think you are going to find a deer hunter that will use a small cut, two blade broadhead

I would argue that there is a much bigger audience of hunters who have not enjoyed such success with mechanicals...

I know many deer hunters who shoot compact, fixed 2-blade broadheads with great success. They include every traditional and recurve bowhunter I know... Furthermore, I recommend the use of 2-blade, fixed broadheads to most of my clients who shoot bows under 60lbs of draw weight and under 27" of draw length. There are many styles of these heads that can be used to both increase total arrow weight and FOC at the same time by simple screwing on the right weight broadhead that facilitates the best possible tune...

The main problem with fixed heads today is with fast crossbows. Once you get past 400 fps, they tend to go squirrly. So, you are stuck using a mechanical.

Crossbows are a completely different animal than a vertical bow and really shouldn't be a part of the broadhead conversation as it relates to the characteristics of broadheads and arrow flight compared to vertical bows which have many more variables that can affect tune and arrow flight...

But, since you mentioned crossbows, the laws of physics remain the same... Speed of the crossbow bolt is irrelevant if the total bolt weight is not high enough to generate enough momentum. In other words, you may be accurate as hell out to 100 yards with a 400fps+ crossbow, but your penetration will suffer just as significantly if the momentum is not there... Friction loss (in the form of an expandible broadhead) is a momentum killer...

I would not count out mechanicals (good ones) for just about any game except for the biggest ones where penetration is paramount.

I disagree on the general premise compared to so many more consistent options available to bowhunters.

I would also be interested to hear which mechanicals you feel are "good ones" and why?

There are many different types of mechanical heads. Front deploying, rear deploying, locked blades, pivoting blades. Each has their benefits and disadvantages.

Maybe compared to each other but not compared to a well-constructed, fixed blade broadhead...

The only safe, ethical, and effective place I see for mechanicals is with small game, and I do mean small... I took some Swackers to Africa once that one of my sponsors gave me to try out. I only took them to shoot varmints and guinea fowl. I shot a steenbok on that trip straight through the shoulder blade broadside, and the arrow exited the paunch on the opposite side. The broadhead was bent in a 45-degree angle and the blades were badly mangled. If they fail after making contact of a paper-thin shoulder blade on a 30lb animal, there is no way I would ever use them on a larger animal...

In fairness, mechanicals are okay for turkeys and other varmints with very small vitals and small bones... The wide cut can make up for a less than perfect shot placement on these smaller species...

 

[archer36]

I would argue that there is a much bigger audience of hunters who have not enjoyed such success with mechanicals...

I know many deer hunters who shoot compact, fixed 2-blade broadheads with great success. They include every traditional and recurve bowhunter I know... Furthermore, I recommend the use of 2-blade, fixed broadheads to most of my clients who shoot bows under 60lbs of draw weight and under 27" of draw length. There are many styles of these heads that can be used to both increase total arrow weight and FOC at the same time by simple screwing on the right weight broadhead that facilitates the best possible tune...



Crossbows are a completely different animal than a vertical bow and really shouldn't be a part of the broadhead conversation as it relates to the characteristics of broadheads and arrow flight compared to vertical bows which have many more variables that can affect tune and arrow flight...

But, since you mentioned crossbows, the laws of physics remain the same... Speed of the crossbow bolt is irrelevant if the total bolt weight is not high enough to generate enough momentum. In other words, you may be accurate as hell out to 100 yards with a 400fps+ crossbow, but your penetration will suffer just as significantly if the momentum is not there... Friction loss (in the form of an expandible broadhead) is a momentum killer...



I disagree on the general premise compared to so many more consistent options available to bowhunters.

I would also be interested to hear which mechanicals you feel are "good ones" and why?



Maybe compared to each other but not compared to a well-constructed, fixed blade broadhead...

The only safe, ethical, and effective place I see for mechanicals is with small game, and I do mean small... I took some Swackers to Africa once that one of my sponsors gave me to try out. I only took them to shoot varmints and guinea fowl. I shot a steenbok on that trip straight through the shoulder blade broadside, and the arrow exited the paunch on the opposite side. The broadhead was bent in a 45-degree angle and the blades were badly mangled. If they fail after making contact of a paper-thin shoulder blade on a 30lb animal, there is no way I would ever use them on a larger animal...

In fairness, mechanicals are okay for turkeys and other varmints with very small vitals and small bones... The wide cut can make up for a less than perfect shot placement on these smaller species...

Well, where do I begin to reply? I won't bother since you have not comprehended most of my posts. If you go back and read them again in their entirety, instead of taking things out of context , the answers will be already there. I am not going to post on this topic ad nauseam. We are all somewhat correct and all somewhat incorrect. There are no absolutes.

 

[BSO Dave]

Well, where do I begin to reply? I won't bother since you have not comprehended most of my posts. If you go back and read them again in their entirety, instead of taking things out of context , the answers will be already there. I am not going to post on this topic ad nauseam. We are all somewhat correct and all somewhat incorrect. There are no absolutes.

You can begin a reply wherever you like...

I believe that I absolutely do comprehend your posts in their full context, and simply have a different opinion to some of yours... It's okay to have different opinions.

The caveat with my opinions is that I base them on personal experience. I form them from real results which I have witnessed or experienced for myself.... Not from clever, hyperbolic marketing ads or hearsay from bowhunters not known to me... And, while I would agree with you that there are no absolutes, I would also argue vehemently that there are definitely recognizable patterns based on the simplest scientific principle of observation along with the inarguable laws of physics... Both of which trend toward my overall opinion that mechanical broadheads in general have a very limited effective use and have far more negatives than positives...

I would still sincerely like to know which mechanicals are the good ones and why...?

 

[archer36]

You can begin a reply wherever you like...

I believe that I absolutely do comprehend your posts in their full context, and simply have a different opinion to some of yours... It's okay to have different opinions.

The caveat with my opinions is that I base them on personal experience. I form them from real results which I have witnessed or experienced for myself.... Not from clever, hyperbolic marketing ads or hearsay from bowhunters not known to me... And, while I would agree with you that there are no absolutes, I would also argue vehemently that there are definitely recognizable patterns based on the simplest scientific principle of observation along with the inarguable laws of physics... Both of which trend toward my overall opinion that mechanical broadheads in general have a very limited effective use and have far more negatives than positives...

I would still sincerely like to know which mechanicals are the good ones and why...?

This will be my last post on this matter. You can find very good broadhead tests on YouTube. Look up Lusk Archery. The latest heads getting accolades on Lusk tests and crossbow forums for their durability are Sevr and Swat.

 

[BSO Dave]

This will be my last post on this matter. You can find very good broadhead tests on YouTube. Look up Lusk Archery. The latest heads getting accolades on Lusk tests and crossbow forums for their durability are Sevr and Swat.

I was actually interested in your opinion of the "good mechanicals" based on your own practical field experience with them... I am very familiar with John Lusk's broadhead tests on YouTube... In fact, I think they are all also posted on this forum... Even if I was forming an opinion based solely on those test results, I'm really not sure any of what I saw from the Sevr, Swat, or any of the other mechanicals he tested would change my opinion on their overall performance when compared on multiple metrics to the best of the fixed blades on the market.

The only unique aspect of the Sevr I can see which I believe goes beyond a gimmick is the ability of the blades to pivot when the meet resistance. That may actually help the broadhead maneuver around bone avoiding some of the friction loss and blade damage. However, by doing so, the broadhead also loses half of its cutting diameter when contact occurs kind of defeating the purpose of what a big expandable broadhead is intended for in the first place... I do like the fact that both ferrule and blades are all steel, and the blades are a heavier gauge steel than most of the others on the market... To be fair, I would be interested to see some more live tissue results before I toss it into the ever-growing heap of the failed mechanical designs...

 

[SamF]

Hi all just an update on the original post, I ended up using grim reapers, the PRO 3-BLADE 125 grain 1 3/8-in Cut. They worked beautifully and I shot three warthogs (which were unfortunately the only animals that came into the hide) they all went down quickly and I had pass throughs on all of them. They also opened perfectly and left behind clean cuts. The first ran about 30m the second about 40m and the last about 10m. Would definitely recommend these broadheads. Also I would like to say thank you for all the feedback and advice on this thread and I will definitely be having a more thorough look at it for my next hunt.

 

[LWPhunt]

You got some decent advice. This is what's your favorite color kind of question.
Once again as stated, shot placement more key than arrow or broadhead.
Fly straight, great advice.

Spine follows broadhead, can't over weight the front on a poor spine shaft.

Most the hunting shows, only show the multiple versions or iterations of expandables. It you love em, use em. If you like fixed blade, find one that makes you feel good and use it. Ashby's theories are very pointed and are helpful, because there is some science behind it.

Africa with the bow many times, many animals, a mix of different fixed blades, with and without bleeders used. Killed Cape buffalo with what this group would consider too light of a fixed blade two blade with bleeder, but it was as lethal and some the monster blades I've used like Ironwill and others.

Accuracy or smooth flight always so key for the arrow.

And it needs to be said, spending the most amount of money doesn't mean the best results. Have fun in the research

 

[BenKK]

Doctor Ashby is a legend and has contributed an incredible amount of knowledge and experience to the bowhunting community. I admire and respect him. I killed my first proper buffalo bull with a 1250 grain arrow out of a 75# longbow, using a STOS broadhead. For my second bull I’d backed down to 970 grains.

These days I’m using a 70# compound and my arrows apparently are still heavy (they seem light to me) at about 550 grains. I’ve killed big buffalo bulls with conventional and excellent Kayuga Zots and Pilot Cuts, which penetrate really well including one pass-through. Prepare to burn me at the stake because I’ve also killed a stack of big bulls with the new Beast mechanical broadheads, which don’t penetrate as well but cause more bleeding and rapid blood loss.

I would never have considered using mechanicals until the Beast got invented, because both blades independently fold back to pass through or around obstacles, then immediately spring open again. My last bull had a rib absolutely centre-punched, really limiting penetration yet still a single arrow kill.

There’s an excellent podcast discussion between John Dudley and Doctor Peter Attia (I hope I have the name correct) who is a trauma surgeon and bowhunter. It’s possible that the traditional, conventional importance of achieving a pass-through with a narrow 3-to-1 ratio broadhead (which is still the very best design for low poundage shooters or traditional bowhunting of big game) may not be as effective as trading some of that penetration for more cutting (from a mechanical).

Back to Ashby… science doesn’t simply stop developing with one good scientist, people keep experimenting and learning. A lot of things change, and people build on the knowledge and experience of people like Ashby. His findings still make a lot of sense, and I’m about to increase my broadhead weight by 25 grains and see if I notice any improvement.

Coming from a trad background I never would have thought guys would be killing big buffalo bulls with recurves around the 60# mark and arrows weighing a mere 550 grains or so, but the new generation of trad bowhunters are absolutely incredible and proving this combo again and again. When I was doing it I thought it was a non-negotiable to have a thousand grain arrow and a much heavier bow.