Bolt Guns are Better than Doubles?

[grand veneur]

Ultimately it's hard to decide what is better and what is not. I would like to hunt like in the past as when there was gun bearers and then I would take everything that would be needed given the circumstances.

 

[Luvthunt]

Based on many years of upland bird hunting with a double shotgun there is no way a bolt gun is as fast for the second shot as a double rifle/ shotgun.

Not based on one + opportunity a year but many many opportunities each year to use the second barrel.

 

[grand veneur]

Absolutely sure, but how often does a client in Africa need such a quick second shot ?

If you make a backup it may look different, but that is mainly reserved for the PH, rarely for other hunters.

 

[375er]

No bolt action can replace the quick second shot of a double. It is probably a rare occasion for a client hunter to need that quick second shot. But I can attest to the fact it can happen. The picture below was taken immediately after I was mauled by a buffalo. My rifle is under the buffalo with the bolt back. He hit me as as I was frantically trying to cycle the action for a second shot.

View attachment 633953

Holy crap!! Love to hear more of the story.

 

[Pondoro]

Absolutely sure, but how often does a client in Africa need such a quick second shot ?

If you make a backup it may look different, but that is mainly reserved for the PH, rarely for other hunters.

Well..I can think of elephant hunting..wich is usually done at very close distance.. The same apply to any dangerous game that are prone to attack..

 

[Mark Biggerstaff]

Would I love to own a double for my first Tuskless hunt I have planned. Yes who wouldn't. But I, like others, just can't justify it. I have a wonderful CZ AHR 458 Lott that has taken 4 buff bulls and 3 cows plus plains game. I will use it loaded with Swift Breakaway Solids. I have both a 1-6 Leupold and Trijicon SRO in QD mounts. Instead of a double purchase I will be able to add maybe a second tuskless if there is still quota available.

I do agree tho, a double is faster for a second shot if needed fast.

 

[Scanos]

Holy crap!! Love to hear more of the story.

You can read about it on here in the thread titled "Pain and Redemption in Niassa". If you read the comments after the story the PH weighs in as well.

 

[grand veneur]

Well..I can think of elephant hunting..wich is usually done at very close distance.. The same apply to any dangerous game that are prone to attack..

I can only say that after more than 30 years of regular hunting in Africa, unfortunately things don't always turn out as they should in theory. Sometimes you can shoot at short distances without any problems, but at times the game is not standing as good visible as you would like it to be or when it finally stands calm on a place it is in a wide open field and the distances are not exactly what you would like for shooting a big game... and so on.

 

[Hunting Hitman]

Have taken the giants with both. The double is a more challenging hunt with more limitations(distance & accuracy).
The bolt action has more versatility.
You as a double rifle hunter need to decide if you’re ok going home without a trophy if the shot did not present itself.
Most of the time that a quick second shot is needed a third and fourth shot comes along for the ride…

HH

 

[grand veneur]

You must often hunt yourself buffaloes but also with others hunters in order to gain experience in many different situations. You then look at some things with a more objective point of view and does not refer too much to theory.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Based on my lack of any PH experience and having read a ton of these threads, I'm not inclined to say one is better than the other except for one circumstance.

Bolts have the advantage of a deeper magazine if that is indeed necessary, albeit they take longer to fill than dropping two rounds into the empty chambers of a double. I believe most folks can pull that 2nd shot faster with the double than with a bolt. The time between my first and second shot on my buffalo was very short. It really wasn't out of necessity due to a charge, it was that the second shot was offered as the bull came to a stop after initially trying to flee. Could I have made that second shot just as quickly with my M70.....maybe/maybe not. PH told me it was about 2 seconds between shots, but it was all a blur to me, one of those moments that time slows when you're super focused.

So I won't make a call on which is better from a functional point of view. As for the classic experience, well I do think there's something just special about a double that makes things different. But that's a subjective opinion and it may not matter to others, nor does it have to.

If there is any area that I think the double excels at over the bolt, it's using the available truly big bore cartridges. The .470NE is enough for me, albeit much better in my current rifle with its mercury recoil reducer installed, but it's still pretty much the top end for me in handling recoil. I'm fairly certain I would not want to use a single barreled bolt in the same caliber.

 

[Green Chile]

Great answers already and typical responses. There is nothing "lesser" about a proper bolt action for DG. Double rifles are fun but the regulation of them can be challenging. Almost any bolt action is more accurate than almost any double rifle with few exceptions. Yes the 2nd shot is faster from the double but the bolt gun is faster at 3rd and 4th shots, which does become necessary sometimes. Over half of my DG (multiples of buff and ele) would have been made much more difficult without having a scope...particularly with buff. I like double rifles and own several but I usually take the bolt guns with good scopes and have never really wished I had brought the double instead.

 

[intj]

Since returning from my buffalo hunt a couple weeks ago, I been in an "Africa star id mind". I can think of no other reason for creating a thread on a topic that has been endlessly discussed. I was trying to justify this thread by talking about how my perceptions had changed, but think the truth is that I wanted to do more than just use the search function for this topic....

I had wanted to hunt in Africa for 30 years and my initial perceptions were based on magazine articles, talking to guys, and the internet. As with most of us, from when the hunt became a reality through the actual hunt itself, my perceptions changed.

Although a scoped bolt gun was better for my first buffalo hunt, I was still thinking a double might be a better choice for elephant where shots are 15-25 yds. But after getting my buffalo and digging more into this with my PH, I am not so sure.

For every case where a double was/would have been a better choice, a case can be found where a bolt was/would have been better.

So for me, as I go though this, here is where I am now as I plan for an elephant hunt in 2 years:

I will always have my 416. I am very comfortable shooting it and it is a proven rifle in Africa.

I think my choice will be between the 470 DR and the 458 Cal bolt gun I will be building. The bolt gun will be either a 458 Lott or a 458 RUM. With either, I'll plan on 500 grainers around 2300 fps.

After the 458 is built, I'll see which I like better between it and the 470 NE DR. They will both generate a similar amount of recoil, but because of the dropped comb of the double, the bolt gun will be easier to control due to less muzzle rise.

This may not be a fair test because I am already practiced and comfortable with heavy recoiling bolt rifles. I have to learn again to be comfortable with the double.

 

[Scanos]

I have learned several lessons over time. What I do is bring a scoped Mauser .375 H&H as my second rifle. I use it for plains game. It is also an alternative to my double. If I am presented with a shot on dangerous game that is too long or the vitals are obscured due to cover, I can transition to the scoped .375 to take the shot or pass on taking the shot and keep hunting. But, for any follow-up on dangerous game, I will always be carrying one of my .500 NE doubles. There is no need to be so rigid about making a decision between the two. You could bring both. My original point was that if you ever need the quick second shot of a double, your life could depend on it. For elephant, I would choose a double all day every day for all the reasons pointed out by others already.

 

[Green Chile]

Years ago, I started asking PHs where their 2nd shot hit before we recover the DG...as almost everyone fires 2 fast shots from their double on follow-up...boom, boom. It's very interesting to find out where that 2nd shot is...or isn't. They always know where the 1st shot is but the 2nd one is often a guess. That's not even a wrong answer but it is interesting. Most buff that are lost have only 1 hit on them...if you get another bullet or two in them, they are usually recovered sooner or later.

 

[intj]

Since returning from my buffalo hunt a couple weeks ago, I been in an "Africa star id mind". I can think of no other reason for creating a thread on a topic that has been endlessly discussed. I was trying to justify this thread by talking about how my perceptions had changed, but think the truth is that I wanted to do more than just use the search function for this topic....

I had wanted to hunt in Africa for 30 years and my initial perceptions were based on magazine articles, talking to guys, and the internet. As with most of us, from when the hunt became a reality through the actual hunt itself, my perceptions changed.

Although a scoped bolt gun was better for my first buffalo hunt, I was still thinking a double might be a better choice for elephant where shots are 15-25 yds. But after getting my buffalo and digging more into this with my PH, I am not so sure.

For every case where a double was/would have been a better choice, a case can be found where a bolt was/would have been better.

So for me, as I go though this, here is where I am now as I plan for an elephant hunt in 2 years:

I will always have my 416. I am very comfortable shooting it and it is a proven rifle in Africa.

I think my choice will be between the 470 DR and the 458 Cal bolt gun I will be building. The bolt gun will be either a 458 Lott or a 458 RUM. With either, I'll plan on 500 grainers around 2300 fps.

After the 458 is built, I'll see which I like better between it and the 470 NE DR. They will both generate a similar amount of recoil, but because of the dropped comb of the double, the bolt gun will be easier to control due to less muzzle rise.

This may not be a fair test because I am already practiced and comfortable with heavy recoiling bolt rifles. I have to learn again to be comfortable with the double.

You know, you think you hate software designers enough but you don't. It is often difficult to get the cursor where you want it when posting from an iPhone. It keeps trying to convince you to select the whole word and other buffoonery when all you want to do is position the cursor to make a change. Then, it autocorrects you, assuming that it knows better than you when it doesn't. I won't mention how it helpfully suggests misspelled words. Then, when you get a chance to come back to your post later and see the error, there is no ability to edit. I have been putting up with this kind of crap from software developers for 40 years and it's getting old.

What I wanted to say was:

Since my return from my buffalo hunt, I have been in an:

Africa state of mind....

 

[Rare Breed]

Since returning from my buffalo hunt a couple weeks ago, I been in an "Africa star id mind". I can think of no other reason for creating a thread on a topic that has been endlessly discussed. I was trying to justify this thread by talking about how my perceptions had changed, but think the truth is that I wanted to do more than just use the search function for this topic....

I had wanted to hunt in Africa for 30 years and my initial perceptions were based on magazine articles, talking to guys, and the internet. As with most of us, from when the hunt became a reality through the actual hunt itself, my perceptions changed.

Although a scoped bolt gun was better for my first buffalo hunt, I was still thinking a double might be a better choice for elephant where shots are 15-25 yds. But after getting my buffalo and digging more into this with my PH, I am not so sure.

For every case where a double was/would have been a better choice, a case can be found where a bolt was/would have been better.

So for me, as I go though this, here is where I am now as I plan for an elephant hunt in 2 years:

I will always have my 416. I am very comfortable shooting it and it is a proven rifle in Africa.

I think my choice will be between the 470 DR and the 458 Cal bolt gun I will be building. The bolt gun will be either a 458 Lott or a 458 RUM. With either, I'll plan on 500 grainers around 2300 fps.

After the 458 is built, I'll see which I like better between it and the 470 NE DR. They will both generate a similar amount of recoil, but because of the dropped comb of the double, the bolt gun will be easier to control due to less muzzle rise.

This may not be a fair test because I am already practiced and comfortable with heavy recoiling bolt rifles. I have to learn again to be comfortable with the double.

I recommend the 500 grain 470 NE at 2150 FPS for best regulation. Just my two cents

 

[BryceM]

Whichever you chose, practice with it a lot. A double you're comfortable with is better than a bolt action you're fiddling with..... and vice-versa.

 

[AZDAVE]

You bring up a question that many of us go through on every trip. For me it is always about the experience. Most times I chose a double, based on tradition and just how my brain is wired. Nothing screams Africa to me like stalking in close and harvesting my quarry with a double. That being said you have to have the discipline to pass on shots that with a scoped bolt or single shot would be a easy shot.

IMO for DG you need to have a rifle you have a 100% confidence in. It fits you perfect and you have shot it a lot. Then knowledge of proper shot placement!!!! a perfect shot with a 9.3 or 375 vs a gut shot with a 600 NE. The first will result in a short blood trail the second a very long couple of days of follow up. So pick the rifle you have confidence in, define the hunt experience you want to have. make a decision and don't look back. It is your safari and you are the only one that can make the ultimate decision on which platform you will take.

 

[SLo66]

Double rifles have the simplest, most reliable action. . . . for two shots. If one learns how to hold two extra rounds between fingers in the hand holding the fore end, they can develop a technique to get off 4 well aimed shots in 6 seconds all striking inside a 3 to 4 inch circle at 50 yards. Good enough to stop behemoths coming down on you in anger.

For bolt actions, since the late 1930's, the Winchester Model 70's proved itself to be the most reliable box magazine commercially made rifle in the USA. As for custom made bolt actions, the Magnum Mausers from Great Britian and the Continent are great for dangerous game 45+ caliber bolt guns; much better than the smaller military M98 versions.