Are the new Hornady cartridges necessary?

[Philip Glass]

I’m guessing many of us react to the constant stream of new Hornady cartridge designs with “oh sheesh, what now?” Sure….capitalism, freedom of choice, vote with your checkbook….good with all of that, and spent a career in the Air Force to help protect such things. Still, is a 6.5 PRC from a Creedmoor, a 7mm PRC from a REM Mag, and a 300 PRC from a Win Mag, worth all of the promotion, hype, and acclaim? Granted, the REM Mag and Win Mag are older and not as super-duper, but more chamberings to concern ourselves about?

I really like them as a company and am a good customer, so no hate or slamming from me. Just wondering about the rest, though?

From a hunting perspective there is little advantage from anything new over the 7mm Mag and the .300Win. The new long range shooting craze is what has created a rabid demand for anything newer and a bit better. I have quite a few hunters going to Africa with me who insist on a new and very expensive custom rifle and custom ammo to go with it. Is it necessary? Absolutely not. But they are very happy with their new guns just like so many are happy to have the 7PRC etc, etc.

 

[AZDAVE]

When you look at history once we went from flint and cap lock front stuffers to a self contained brass cartridge there has been constant development across the world, British, German, Italian, french, Russian, USA etc developed so many different rounds in the black powder through the start of the cordite rounds that they make the current developers look like slackers. They had so many proprietary rounds it make the head spin. What we are seeing is development of very specific focused rounds to meet certain requirement. Hunting, long range target, short range target, military, etc.

I support the idea of development of using all the lessons over the years and using best of breed engineering and develop a good round, bullet, rifle etc. Look at the idea of a MOA or better rifle. from the early 1900's to about 1990's that was the realm of custom rifles or an lucky combo coming from a factory. Fast forward to early 2000's and you can but a factory rifle with a sun MOA with factory ammo for less that $700. The bullets are much better and the current factory match ammo takes some work to better.

I always say lay out your requirements and capabilities of yourself and equipment. I enjoy shooting my 6.5 creedmore, have hunted with it but to me it is a deer/impala and smaller kritter round. Does it do anything that a 6.5x55 does? Nope but factory ammo availability the 6.5 Creedmor has the advantage.
Where things went south is when the writers and internet folks declared it the best thing since sliced bread and that it was good up to moose. Shoot the appropriate Premium grade bullet/rifle combo for the game to be hunted and don't go hunting with the "It can do it if everything is perfect mentality" The folks that do that tend to get visited by Mr Murphy very often.

For me I will choose the right round in my mind for my hunt. My favorite hunting rounds fit in an older rounds in very accurate rifles. 7x57, 7x64, 300 H&H, 9.3x62, 375 H&H, 404 Jeffery, 505 Gibbs in bolt guns. 22 hornet,,7x65r, 9.3x74, 450/400, 500 NE, 577 NE in doubles or single shots

I shoot 6.5 creed, and working on 300 PRC for punching paper and ringing steel. Also will hunt deer/impala and below with the creed and the 300 for elk/kudu and smaller if that is the rifle I decide to take.

The manufacturers and the spin doctors will constantly try and reinvent the wheel and make it look like the best ever, but that is their jobs of making a profit and following the current trends. Our job is to select the appropriate round for the hunt we have in mind. We owe it to the animals to cleanly harvest them.

 

[Tanks]

I think one thing the new cartridges have is the faster twist rate for longer mono metal bullets.

 

[colorado]

I'll stick with my 270.

 

[NDWoods]

I skimmed so sorry if this has already been said.

WIND

It is implied with high BC but the difference in wind hold, and consequences of being slightly off are very attractive in those long-for -caliber options.

I love 300 PRC for both extreme long range and hunting. It replaces 338 Lapua in the heavy rifle and replaces 300 WSM in hunting rifles.

Already having 6.5CM in 6 rifles and a ton of ammo, the 6.5 PRC does not offer enough advantage to change. Evem if that were not the case. I am not yet comfortable with ammo availability, but that is getting close.

I understand why the guys out west are drooling over the 7PRC so much. It is a cool cartridge.
My biggest opinion in all of this is that many of us are just gear guys who like to try new things and see where they take us. I have never fan boy pressured anyone into any of the new cartridges.

 

[SaintPanzer]

US ranked bolt-action rifle sales for Q4 2021 and Q1 2022:

1. 6.5 Creedmoor​

2. 22 LR​

3. 6.5 PRC​

4. 30-06​

5. 300 Win Mag​

6. 308 Win​

7. 6.8 Western​

8. 7mm Rem Mag​

9. 7mm-08​

Just for fun:
1. 2007
2. 1887
3. 2018
4. 1906
5. 1963
6. 1952
7. 2021
8. 1962
9. 1980. Actually, a 1952 wildcat marketed in 1980.

So of the top 9, that's 3 in the 21st century, 5 before 1965, and one that's something between the Truman administration and the Carter administration. That one from the 19th century is still in the top 3, and the one from the Roosevelt (the good one, not the flaming Socialist) Administration is still in the top 5, outselling its "replacement" from the Truman administration.

So I think I'm OK sticking with the old stuff. Which reminds me: I gave my .22 to my nephew... looks like I need to find another.

 

[Shooter375]

Necessary No. Fun Yes.

The new PRC rounds are not necessary but they are fun. These rounds fulfill the longer range shooting niche. If you don't want to shoot accurately past 300 yards then don't worry about them. If you do then they can improve your success. They can improve your success in the following ways. Their SAMMI specs require narrower machining tolerances which increases accuracy through consistency. Shooting half MOA groups is fun. Their tighter twist rates (eg. 1 in 8 twist) allow them to stabilize longer heavy for caliber more aerodynamic bullets. Higher BC's equals less wind drift, flatter trajectories, and more energy on target. That is fun.

So while not necessary they are more fun.

Lastly, can the "old" rounds like the 6.5x284, 7RM, and 300WM do the same as the new 6.5PRC, 7PRC, and 300PRC. Yes, but only in a custom rifle with narrower machining tolerances, longer throats, and faster twist barrels.

 

[Doug3006]

As @SaintPanzer said, there hasn’t been a “necessary” cartridge developed in many, many years. For safari hunting, the last innovation needed was an alternative to the various nitro calibers that were no longer being loaded by Kynoch. In North America, soon after smokeless powder was introduced, we had the 30-06. Then in 1912, the 375 H&H was released. From a “needs” standpoint, we were covered.

New calibers are interesting. I would never talk anyone out of a new gun, however I haven’t seen a new caliber introduced in my lifetime that wasn’t redundant.

 

[C.W. Richter]

Absolutely Necessary (to generate a continued revenue stream and pay overhead for big business!) So many cartridges have essentially been duplicated over the years, using only advertising hype to sell 'em to the masses like coca-cola. I find wildcatting more interesting than (newly created factory rounds.) There are some rounds out there that shine for particular applications (i.e. 6.5-300 Wby and wildcats in the same realm, big-cased .338s-bigger than Lapua,) but most are the same as something prior with pretty new packaging...Remember all the game we took (and continue to take) using lead-tipped bullets. My what a handicap my hunting career has incurred... Whoa are we! That said, I'll use some handloaded "modern technology" bullets for shots much beyond 400-450 yds, fired out of a customized rig. As that's outside the norm for most hunting, new cartridges (that pretty much fall in the median range of performance for a given caliber, are unnecessary.

 

[Nyati]

Not needed there is nothing you cannot do with the classics.

 

[Jäger_Ivo]

Modern Cartridge Design: Why New Rifle Cartridges Are Superior to the Classics

 

[MTA]

6.5 PRC is my WY antelope caliber. The only downside is hornady brass

I have brass that is at 3 loadings with primer pockets blown out already. Wont stop me from eventually investing in 300 PRC, but Id suggest paying for some good brass if you can find it.

 

[Hogpatrol]

6.5 PRC is my WY antelope caliber. The only downside is hornady brass

I have brass that is at 3 loadings with primer pockets blown out already. Wont stop me from eventually investing in 300 PRC, but Id suggest paying for some good brass if you can find it.

ADG and Lapua make 6.5 PRC, not sure about Petersen.

 

[NTX]

The PRC cartridges certainly reflect the change toward long, high BC bullets and faster twist rates designed for well beyond “hunting range” applications.

 

[Inline6]

The PRC cartridges certainly reflect the change toward long, high BC bullets and faster twist rates designed for well beyond “hunting range” applications.

"Your hunting range application"

Some of us don't mind shooting at a longer range to fill a tag. Right or wrong, some train like crazy shooting distance. If a guy is proficient at 700 yards why not take advantage of it. Yes yes I know get closer, having killed animals from 6' to over 1/2 a mile I get both sides. Again right or wrong, public hunting out west sometime you take what you can get. I'm not saying it is for everyone, all I'm saying is that guy that put the work in, takes a week or two vacation, spends money that he worked OT for just to make the trip. If that guy only has 1 shot at 700 yards, I'm not telling him don't take it. I'm getting on glass to talk wind with him to make sure we get his first shot right.

I get that most people feel 300 is max distance for hunting. I'm not saying you are wrong in your thoughts, it is a personal decision. Just because you feel that way does not mean the next guy can't hit 3" targets at 600 yards. As long as the animals we hunt are taken clean and quick, that is our moral obligation to them. Personally to me 800 yards in Colorado is no different than a box blind hunting over a feeder 80 yards away, or hunting in a blind over looking a watering hole. Again it is all personal responsibility to know the limitations of our ability and our gear.

 

[TXhunter65]

Wonder if 50-75 years from now if people will be arguing their classic 6.5 Creedmoor, 7 PRC, etc etc is just as good...or better than the new whizz bang caliber and how there's no need for it.

 

[mdwest]

If I were still competitively shooting as much as I was in my 20's and 30's, or toting a "precision" rifle for a living like I was for a few years in my mid 30's, finding different ways to shave off fractions of MOA might be appealing.. whether that is through some new innovative cartridge that has 1" less drop at 600 yards than what Im currently using.. or some high speed barrel that tightens groups up from .25 to .2 MOA, etc..

For the mid 50's version of me.. its not worth it.. I've got a few "new" calibers in the safe (350 legend, 458 SOCOM, etc).. but they werent bought for accuracy reasons.. they were single purpose AR builds for hog hunting.. All of my bolt actions are in "old" calibers.. 243, 270, 308, 30-06, 35 Whelen, 300 H&H, 375 H&H, etc..etc.. the ability to find reloading components and/or factory ammo (that is also typically cheaper) is more important to me than having a new design that I can squeeze 100 more FPS out of.. and over the years I've accumulated so much "stuff" to support those cartridges (dies, brass, pet loads, etc) that it really doesnt make much sense to change.. What I've got works, and works well for the intended purpose..

Were I thinking about getting into F1 or PRC, etc... that might would change though..

 

[Alistair]

I’m guessing many of us react to the constant stream of new Hornady cartridge designs with “oh sheesh, what now?” Sure….capitalism, freedom of choice, vote with your checkbook….good with all of that, and spent a career in the Air Force to help protect such things. Still, is a 6.5 PRC from a Creedmoor, a 7mm PRC from a REM Mag, and a 300 PRC from a Win Mag, worth all of the promotion, hype, and acclaim? Granted, the REM Mag and Win Mag are older and not as super-duper, but more chamberings to concern ourselves about?

I really like them as a company and am a good customer, so no hate or slamming from me. Just wondering about the rest, though?

From a purely functional perspective, all useful cartridge development was done by about 1952 (excepting 5.56nato).

By then the black powder transition was over, smokeless was a well understood established technology and the war gave us a load of good, reliable, efficient cartridges for all the typical hunting calibers that had been tested extensively and were effective out to ranges far beyond what is necessary for hunting.

Anything after that has been increasingly niche use case developments driven primarily by marketing.

An armory of 30-06/.308win, .223rem and a .375 (plus maybe a stopping rifle for those of us who are PHs) would do absolutely everything, everywhere, for every quarry species. Anything over and above that is a choice based on fairly minimal improvements in the real world (6.5cm or 300wm vs .308) or personal preference driven by marketing. The actual benefit in accuracy, terminal effect, energy is minimal to the point of irrelevance.

Yet we like the shiny, we like new, we like bragging rights, so new cartridges continue to be released and we continue to buy em.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

From a purely functional perspective, all useful cartridge development was done by about 1952 (excepting 5.56nato).

By then the black powder transition was over, smokeless was a well understood established technology and the war gave us a load of good, reliable, efficient cartridges for all the typical hunting calibers that had been tested extensively and were effective out to ranges far beyond what is necessary for hunting.

Anything after that has been increasingly niche use case developments driven primarily by marketing.

An armory of 30-06/.308win, .223rem and a .375 (plus maybe a stopping rifle for those of us who are PHs) would do absolutely everything, everywhere, for every quarry species. Anything over and above that is a choice based on fairly minimal improvements in the real world (6.5cm or 300wm vs .308) or personal preference driven by marketing. The actual benefit in accuracy, terminal effect, energy is minimal to the point of irrelevance.

Yet we like the shiny, we like new, we like bragging rights, so new cartridges continue to be released and we continue to buy em.

@Alistair
Personally I don't like stopping rifles. I want them to work all the time. Rifles take keep stopping are no use to me.
HA HA HA HA HA HA
BOB

 

[Tree-ratsniper]

A few years after the manbun came out, I bought a barrel for one of my Savages. It's soft shooting and clangs my gongs well but, I think I'll stick with my .308 or 06' for general hunting use.