Are the new Hornady cartridges necessary?

[TERMINATOR]

Add a 22 Rimfire and a shotgun. The 06 or too much for squirrels and really hard to get a quail.

Yea, I was talking big game.

Certainly need the .22 and a shotgun for the rest

 

[TERMINATOR]

I guess I should add, my commentary above is in the context of hunting. For hunting, they're all much of a muchness.

That said, I wouldn't want to take to the field in a 1000yd bench rest comp with a .308. If there was someone 1200yds away behind a GPMG or a light mortar that I'd really, really like to stop firing in my direction, I'd rather have a modern .338lap or something over a 30-06. Same story if I was heading out on patrol somewhere dangerous and had a choice of 250 rounds of 8mm Mauser or 500 of .223 for the same pack weight.

In those scenarios, no contest.

But for hunting, eh, whatever I can find ammo for is just peachy.

I had friends that fought in Vietnam. They loved the 5.56 because they routinely took 1080 to 1200 rounds with them on patrol. That is 36-40 30rd mags.

Try doing that with 7.62x51 or even the enemy's 7.62x39. You couldn't walk.

They often cursed the gun (M16) because it was fussy, especially the early ones...but they loved being able to take an F-ton of ammo with them.

 

[colorado]

There's not a .243 in existence that holds a candle to the "new" 6.5CM.

Which doesn't hold a candle to the 264 Win Mag or the 270 WCF

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I agree with you Bob...but that will rile up some people LOL

Personally I think it starts a .25 caliber gun...the .25 Roberts is (probably "was" at this point) a much better "starter gun". The 25-06 and .257 Wby are hella good Pronghorn and Mule Deer guns. But if I get bigger than deer...I want bigger than .25 caliber.

My son and grand daughter started on 7mm08 when it was time to graduate from .22 plinking to killing stuff. For all purposes it is a short action 7x57. 7mm-08 is almost the ballistic twin of the 7x57. And everybody knows what the 7x57 did for most of a century in Africa.

I just don't have faith in the .243/6mm.

@TERMINATOR
Can't go past a good 25 for most medium game. A nice 100gn TTSX or 117gr SST theu the heat lungs and you have one very dead animal very quickly. They just seem to kill quicker than they should. I've never tracked anything hit with a fast 25.
Bob

 

[Vashper]

I agree it gets quite old.

For me, this advertisement implies "what kind of shit we sold you before!".

Last season I spent the last bullet of Hornadi (they are no longer supplied). They were used in cartridges from Barnaul - these are very cheap cartridges in military style, with a steel lacquered case. I bought it on trial, it turned out that they recharge normally (in a semi-automatic rifle this is the main quality) and are quite accurate. The first two bullets at 60 meters came almost in one hole - of course, an accident, but pleasant. And I bought several packs, in 308 with Interlock 180 gr..
On our hunts, we often have to shoot at a running game, an accurate shot is not always possible, but since the game is not very dangerous (elk, wild boar, roe deer), the main thing is not to miss at all and not to make an easy wound. And with these cartridges, I never managed to put the game on the spot. The game always went dozens of meters away, and I never found a bullet, always through (I shoot at the lungs).
And here I am standing at the extreme in the chain of shooters and I see a moose running through a birch forest 100 meters away. You can't let go, this is the last round of the weekend. I shoot, and the moose turns sharply and runs towards me at the same pace. At first I was pleased because the distance was getting shorter; but soon I became worried. After three shots, the moose fell a few meters away from me. Most likely, he didn't attack, but you can't ask him anymore. During the cutting, only one bullet was found - it entered the front of the chest and stopped in the intestines. It was almost not deformed (maybe I will post a photo). There were two more hits on the lungs, but they went through. And that's where I regretted that I bought a 308 rifle at the time, and not a 30-06, although there was such an opportunity. A good bullet, but not very fast in such a cartridge.
Or should I have taken 150 gr.?
Actually, why this too long story (sorry). The old army calibers were intended in particular against cavalry, so they are also good for hunting. Also modern calibers, if they are similar to the old ones. And here are the newfangled things... sorry.

 

[colorado]

Should've bought a 270

 

[CoElkHunter]

Should've bought a 270

Or a .35 Creedmoor? LOL

 

[Inline6]

Or a .35 Creedmoor? LOL

35PRC you need something with some ass

 

[Vashper]

Should've bought a 270

In Europe, rather 7x64. For it there are good Brno-98, with mounting for the sight. And for 270 I saw only Browning BLM (or BLR?) or something like that, and the choice of cartridges is poor, But for responsible hunting you need to have a skill for your rifle, and I'm not used to the "bolt". In a rush situation, this can lead to unpredictable behavior. I have heard of cases where very strong hunters broke the handles on a new Blazer. And self-loading carbines have a small range of calibers.

 

[Vashper]

Or a .35 Creedmoor? LOL

Sorry, I didn't find a puking emoticon

 

[Neil Molendyk]

26-06, 270 WIN, 30-06 (all from the 30-06 family)
7x57 Mauser
300 H&H
300 Win Mag, 338 Win Mag, 458 Win Mag (offspring of the 300 H&H)
375 H&H
416 Rigby.

All work wonderfully in the right application

I was once told that nothing is new, only rediscovered.
But that's why I'm not into marketing.

 

[CoElkHunter]

In Europe, rather 7x64. For it there are good Brno-98, with mounting for the sight. And for 270 I saw only Browning BLM (or BLR?) or something like that, and the choice of cartridges is poor, But for responsible hunting you need to have a skill for your rifle, and I'm not used to the "bolt". In a rush situation, this can lead to unpredictable behavior. I have heard of cases where very strong hunters broke the handles on a new Blazer. And self-loading carbines have a small range of calibers.

A semi auto Benelli R1 comes in .30-06, .308, .300 Win Mag and .338 Win Mag. Highly reliable, gas piston operated with 50% recoil reduction. In jurisdictions that allow a semi auto for hunting, it would be my choice in .338WM for non DG, if I were going with a semi auto platform.

 

[Vashper]

I tried Argo. But I don't believe in Italian rifles, double-barreled shotguns are another matter. By design, I like the Browning Bar 2 more. It happens in the same calibers. One day I was thinking about an acquisition: one guy from our club put up 338 Bars. The doctor diagnosed him with a brain tumor. But then it turned out that he had retinal detachment (he recalled the first doctor in very bad words, I'm even ashamed to repeat it), and he withdrew the offer. But he has to shoot from the right shoulder, aiming with his left eye, and this is inconvenient. And once he shot at a small moose six times, with very expensive cartridges. And the forest echoed: "fifteen bucks... fifteen bucks.. . and another fifteen bucks...".

 

[CoElkHunter]

I tried Argo. But I don't believe in Italian rifles, double-barreled shotguns are another matter. By design, I like the Browning Bar 2 more. It happens in the same calibers. One day I was thinking about an acquisition: one guy from our club put up 338 Bars. The doctor diagnosed him with a brain tumor. But then it turned out that he had retinal detachment (he recalled the first doctor in very bad words, I'm even ashamed to repeat it), and he withdrew the offer. But he has to shoot from the right shoulder, aiming with his left eye, and this is inconvenient. And once he shot at a small moose six times, with very expensive cartridges. And the forest echoed: "fifteen bucks... fifteen bucks.. . and another fifteen bucks...".

Nothing wrong with a BAR either. One of my elk hunting buddies used his .300WM BAR for years. Way too heavy for me though while walking through the mountains.

 

[Vashper]

The reliability of recharging is very important, not only for DG. When you have a rifle wedged, and a wounded boar runs away into the swamp, taking the license with it - it's very unpleasant. The team looks at you like Lenin looks at the bourgeoisie, and there may not be a second hunt in the season. I saw such a picture, thank God, it wasn't with me.
But this year, in January, I had a prerequisite for this - I ran out of Centaur cartridges with a Hornadi bullet, and I bought some cheap SP 165 gr. And there was a sticking of the cartridge (the lead of the bullet is very soft, and the bullet nose was deformed). And the moose, very large, continued to walk after two hits. I unloaded the rifle, dropped the magazine in the snow, in general, a complete set. But then the moose stopped, and I saw thin streams of steam coming out from both sides with each exhalation. It was very cold, -15F. The neighbor finished him off with two shots. Unfortunately, the moose has already shed its horns, and they could have been big.
And yes, my Vepr-308 carbine is also, bitch, heavy, and this is a problem. On the other hand, it reduces the impact, otherwise shoulder osteochondrosis can say "take it easy, buddy!"

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

35PRC you need something with some ass

@Inline6
The standard 35Whelen has enough kick ass power for out yonder reach.
A 225gn accubond started at 2,900fps will rech out to 400yrds and smack game hard enough to knock the stuffing out of them.
Any further than 500 yds and its to far to walk to pick it up, but then again I'm a lazy big bastard.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Nothing wrong with a BAR either. One of my elk hunting buddies used his .300WM BAR for years. Way too heavy for me though while walking through the mountains.

@CoElkHunter
Your just getting to OLD mate.
You can always get a scabbard for your walking frame that way you don't need to carry it.
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
BOB

 

[TERMINATOR]

I tried Argo. But I don't believe in Italian rifles, double-barreled shotguns are another matter. By design, I like the Browning Bar 2 more. It happens in the same calibers. One day I was thinking about an acquisition: one guy from our club put up 338 Bars. The doctor diagnosed him with a brain tumor. But then it turned out that he had retinal detachment (he recalled the first doctor in very bad words, I'm even ashamed to repeat it), and he withdrew the offer. But he has to shoot from the right shoulder, aiming with his left eye, and this is inconvenient. And once he shot at a small moose six times, with very expensive cartridges. And the forest echoed: "fifteen bucks... fifteen bucks.. . and another fifteen bucks...".

Did the .338 cause the detached retina?

 

[Vashper]

Of course, it is not very useful if there are problems with the eyes. But it is unrealistic to explain this to an adult.

They say that in general, a variety of injuries have been recorded due to shooting, in particular

fracture of the collarbone
retinal detachment

seals fly out
brain concussion

It is clear that the reasons for this are the incorrect use of the rifle, the wrong position of the shooter. And most likely the cause of detachment is medical, but with a minor injury - an exacerbation.

338 caliber - "pugnacious". It seems to me that he kicks harder than my 9x64. A heavy rifle is better, an African one.

 

[DG870]

I don’t have a real problem with the new PRC (Precision Rifle Cartridge) fad that is going on now. it seems that we go through this every few years. Remember around 2000/2001 the Remington Short Action Ultra Mags and the Winchester Short and Super Short Magnums. Winchester did have success with the 300WSM and the 270WSM but not with the 7mmWSM. Ruger took a run at the market with the 30 RCM and that didn’t work out too well for them.

The interest today seems to be driven by the interest in long range shooting and the interest in PRS Matches held around the country (Precision Rifle Shooting) and Hornady is going with the flow. The 6.5x284 was a favorite long range rifle but was hard on barrels so here comes the 6.5 Creedmoor. As it became popular it was only a matter of time before shooters were asking for more speed for the 6.5 so here comes the 6.5 PRC. Once the 6.5 PRC was accepted it was logical For someone to try a .30 caliber bullet or a 7mm bullet or God forbid a 35 caliber bullet (.35 PRC for the Australian market). The market will sort this out in time and in another 20 years some old farts like us will bemoaning the fact that the new line of Super Sonic Speed Demons (SSSDJ is cluttering up the market.

I do like the trend of the faster twist barrels shooting heavy for caliber bullets in efficiently sized cases.

I don’t like the trend that everyone going hunting has to have a rifle with at least a 6-24x50 30mm tactical scope with a heavy barrel so you can shoot your game at 1000 yards or more. There needs to be a line between long range target shooting and ethical hunting.

The other problem I see, considering the current shortage of ammunition, reloading components and brass is it a good idea to be bringing out new products when you can’t keep up with demand for their existing products.

Sorry for the long post, drinking coffee on a slow Saturday morning.