A Magazine Or A Second Barrel?

kurpfalzjäger

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Kurpfalzjager
You mentioned your .460 Weatherby magnum calibre rifle which was built on a Brevex mechanism . May l ask which firm built your rifle and how many cartridges the magazine could hold ?
Also , do you use traditional metal envelope bullets or modern homogeneous metal bullets ?

The gunmaker was SIPP in Strasbourg/France. The rifle was built in 1974 , but I buy it at the beginning of the nineties. The magazine hold 3 cartridges.

I used different bullets , initially the classic 500gr SP Interbond from Hornady and to time the 500gr PP SN from Woodleigh. I have only used a lead-free bullet one time , the 450gr TSX from barnes. They were very accurate , but IMHO a little bit too soft. But as I said , I have only one buffalo shot with , what is not enough to judge a bullet.
 

CoElkHunter

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That reminds me.

There are - or at least were - people who have made strong cases for using "ghost ring" sights (large and thin-rimmed aperture sights): very fast with a little practice, more precise than traditional open sights, very little that can go wrong with the sight, do not add bulk to the rifle.

I suppose they don't help you see better in heavy cover but heavy cover is risky anyway.

Is anyone using those now?

Photo stolen from the internet:

View attachment 314443
Hey, how come this guy is actually shooting from a position one might use while hunting! He needs to get back on the bench and shoot like the 99 percent of other shooters practicing for an actual hunt! What’s the matter with him? Ha! Ha!
 
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Kawshik Rahman

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The gunmaker was SIPP in Strasbourg/France. The rifle was built in 1974 , but I buy it at the beginning of the nineties. The magazine hold 3 cartridges.

I used different bullets , initially the classic 500gr SP Interbond from Hornady and to time the 500gr PP SN from Woodleigh. I have only used a lead-free bullet one time , the 450gr TSX from barnes. They were very accurate , but IMHO a little bit too soft. But as I said , I have only one buffalo shot with , what is not enough to judge a bullet.
Kurpfalzjager
Thank you so much for your response. Do modern 500 grain homogeneous metal bullets also exist for the .460 Weatherby magnum calibre and have you any experience with them ?
 

kurpfalzjäger

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As I wrote above , I have no experience with such bullets. I also don't know what there is factory ammo which is loaded with such bullets. The last 460WM cartridges I bought come from earlier series and were loaded with classic SP or FMJ bullets from Hornady. That was still in the 20th century.

The offer of bullets caliber .458 is large and the cartridge 460WM is easy to reload. Every hunter and reloader can easily make his preferred load.
 

perttime

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Hey, how come this guy is actually shooting from a position one might use while hunting! He needs to get back on the bench and shoot like the 99 percent of other shooters practicing for an actual hunt! What’s the matter with him? Ha! Ha!
The photo is taken at a place where they actually practice the practical use of firearms.
It is also a rifle with some punch (460 G&A, I believe).
:cool:
 

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I absolutely love this article and most of the responses. I currently do not own a double and at 76 will not be planning a hunt where I could benefit from one. However, if I were 20 or 25 years younger I'd be looking to add one to my collection. Bailey Bradshaw's doubles are intriguing to say the least. If and when "my ship comes in" I might still buy one so that my sons and or grandsons could enjoy using it.
 

Kawshik Rahman

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I absolutely love this article and most of the responses. I currently do not own a double and at 76 will not be planning a hunt where I could benefit from one. However, if I were 20 or 25 years younger I'd be looking to add one to my collection. Bailey Bradshaw's doubles are intriguing to say the least. If and when "my ship comes in" I might still buy one so that my sons and or grandsons could enjoy using it.
Shootist43
It is pleasant to see you back on the African Hunting forums again , my friend. Unless your tasks involve pursuing wounded leopards into dense vegetation , you will never feel lacking with a good bolt operation rifle .
 

ryan80

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Mr Rahman, thank you once again for the excellent article.

I simply do not understand how a decent double barrel shotgun can be made for a few hundred dollars but a double barrel rifle is so incredibly expensive. Of course I am not an engineer or gun maker, but can someone far wiser than me please explain this? I don't specifically need one for any real purpose for myself, but it would be a fun thing to own in 30-06 or something similar for stalking through the woods. I recently had 4 deer come across a dirt road in front of me at under 50 yards. I took the second one (a doe) with my bolt rifle, but the final one was a buck and he paused briefly, but just long enough that I have to wonder if i could have gotten him if I didn't need to lose my sight picture completely and cycle the bolt.

Bolt action rifles have simply cornered the vast majority of the hunting rifle market based on their reputation for pinpoint accuracy. While incredible accuracy is always a benefit in hunting, especially in places like the western US where shots over 200 yards can be common, a semi-auto, lever or pump action rifle will generally be faster on follow up shots than a bolt and in many ways perhaps more practical in the southeastern US where I hunt. A great many people still hunt with 30-30 Marlins and Winchesters (and a few 35 Remingtons) in lever action and they are proven deer slayers, despite the inherent limitations of the cartridge and the tube style magazine.

A hunting mentor and great friend of mine who is in his 70s has hunted Georgia, Main, Vermont and Virginia his whole life and taken every one of his countless deer with an old Remington semi-auto Model 8 in 35 Remington with open sights. He likes to remind me just how seldom an eastern US hunter will get an opportunity on a deer at over 100 yards, much less 200. Granted, he is an incredible shooter with great eyesight and skill. I do also understand that semi-auto rifles are illegal in many places AND that there is a widely accepted notion that semi-auto rifles are less accurate due to their needing to cycle. So lets take away doubles as too expensive for most of us and semi-autos as less accurate and not legal in many places (especially Africa.) What about pumps and levers?

I am surprised that there aren't more rifles like the Browning BLR (lever), Henry Long Ranger (lever) or Remington 7600 (pump action) offered with better triggers and in more calibers. Both action types can be equipped with box magazines and as I understand it, the rack and pinion action of a Browning BLR should theoretically be as strong as a bolt gun. And if a pump action shotgun can handle a magnum 3.5" turkey load, I would think that a pump rifle could handle a variety of good close action brush/woods cartridges.

Mr Rahman or Major Khan, do either of you gentlemen have much experience with pump action rifles or shotguns for terrestrial game? I would think that in theory a Remington 7600 firing a hard hitting cartridge like a 35 Whelan (with a 250 grain expanding bullet at 2,500 fps) would be an excellent gun for thick brush. This combination is available, but pretty rare I believe. Fast enough for a leopard? Frankly from stories I have heard there is no such thing as "fast enough" for that, but a pump or lever is certainly faster than a bolt gun and in a situation with dangerous game around (even if its not the primary quarry) and no need to shoot father than 200 yards, wouldn't this be better than a bolt gun in the same caliber?

The biggest problem I tend to hear with these particular models such as the 7600 and BLR is that while some hunters have found tremendous success with them, others have wound up with lemons that they can't get to group well, have heavy triggers, etc. Again, I am not an engineer but is this due to poor quality control on these particular models or some inherent problem with the design?
 
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That reminds me.

There are - or at least were - people who have made strong cases for using "ghost ring" sights (large and thin-rimmed aperture sights): very fast with a little practice, more precise than traditional open sights, very little that can go wrong with the sight, do not add bulk to the rifle.

I suppose they don't help you see better in heavy cover but heavy cover is risky anyway.

Is anyone using those now?

Photo stolen from the internet:

View attachment 314443
@perttime
I have just started using a red dot scope on my shotgun for pigs. I know they are not DG and I will probably never hunt DG.
I find the red dot optic great for reflex shooting as you have both eyes open and just place the dot on the target and end of story. Very quick, easy and accurate.
I wonder how they would go.
Bob.
 
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I absolutely love this article and most of the responses. I currently do not own a double and at 76 will not be planning a hunt where I could benefit from one. However, if I were 20 or 25 years younger I'd be looking to add one to my collection. Bailey Bradshaw's doubles are intriguing to say the least. If and when "my ship comes in" I might still buy one so that my sons and or grandsons could enjoy using it.
@Shootist43
Art you could always by a cheap Baikal sxs in 45/70 as tour first double for hogs and deer. The retail for less than a grand and being Russian are built like a battle ship and designed that you can regulate them easily yourself to suit your loads. Nick Hervey one of our esteemed gunwriters in OZ gave it a pretty good wrap.
Bob
 
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Shootist43
It is pleasant to see you back on the African Hunting forums again , my friend. Unless your tasks involve pursuing wounded leopards into dense vegetation , you will never feel lacking with a good bolt operation rifle .
@Kawshik Rahman
My dear friend another great article by yourself and fantastic reading.
To me each weapon has its pro's and con's in situations as you have so wonderfully described in hunting leopard a double be it rifle or shotgun in the configuration you like would be the the weapon of choice.
Please write more my friend.
Your humble reader and friend
Bob Nelson
 

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