A Genuine Question : Why Is Hornady So Hated?

[Red Leg]

It was the DGS issue. Most frustrating was Hornady’s stubborn refusal to acknowledge a problem. I had a 300 gr bullet from a .375 come apart on a sable in Mozambique. It still worked, but I was never tempted to try them on a buffalo. I brought it up with them at SCI four years ago at the height of the failure reports, and they refused to acknowledge their was an issue much less a problem with the bullet. I suppose I can understand their reluctance due to liability concerns, but it was a problem that took too long to fix. I am sure it cost them business.

The new bonded core bullet should be fine, and I am a real fan of the new ELD-X bullet in the Precision Hunter line. As noted above, we would never have returned so many classic doubles to the field were it not for Hornady, so I wish them success moving forward recapturing market share.

 

[Luvthunt]

While I have read of Hornady issues I have seen no pics other then Doctaris first book “ The Perfect Shot”. Some of the failed bullets he showed were Woodleighs and we know today that they are manufactured to a certain impact/velocity range.
I used Hornady round nose solids during my 1997 hunt on cape buff, both were recovered from a follow up rear end shot. One bullet hit high in the butt the second was at the base of the tail and traveled as far as the liver.We recovered both bullets. I had also used a Sledgehammer solid earlier which went thru and thru on an angle brush shot.
It appeared that the Sledgehammers gave better penetration. For info purposes that was back in the day that most solids were round nose, other then the SH.
Many folks prefer the Sledgehammers but Robertson (2nd Perfect Shot) and Van Der Walt refer to fragmentation on the bullet case. When Carter owned the company the bullets appeared to perform. The problem began when Federal modified the TBSH and TBBC. The last comment is based on reading material not on personal usage.
It is written that Federal corrected their change. Just as Hornady has.

 

[WAB]

While I have read of Hornady issues I have seen no pics other then Doctaris first book “ The Perfect Shot”. Some of the failed bullets he showed were Woodleighs and we know today that they are manufactured to a certain impact/velocity range.
I used Hornady round nose solids during my 1997 hunt on cape buff, both were recovered from a follow up rear end shot. One bullet hit high in the butt the second was at the base of the tail and traveled as far as the liver.We recovered both bullets. I had also used a Sledgehammer solid earlier which went thru and thru on an angle brush shot.
It appeared that the Sledgehammers gave better penetration. For info purposes that was back in the day that most solids were round nose, other then the SH.
Many folks prefer the Sledgehammers but Robertson (2nd Perfect Shot) and Van Der Walt refer to fragmentation on the bullet case. When Carter owned the company the bullets appeared to perform. The problem began when Federal modified the TBSH and TBBC. The last comment is based on reading material not on personal usage.

I have posted pics of failed DGX bullets in one of the many threads on this subject here. You should be able to find them with a quick search.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

This is quite a terrifying experience , WAB. Have Hornady DGS solid metal covered bullets also been known to fail ?

In addition to the DGX failures noted above, the DGS has also exhibited poor behavior. I've seen more than a few pics of the rear end of the bullet flattening. When this happens who knows where the bullet is going to go, but likely not in a straight line as solids are intended to do. If a solid can't fully penetrate and exit a lion, you've got a problem. Ask @gizmo about his experience.

The round nose design has been around for a long time and is old. While I'm sure it's killed game, there are better designs now that provide better straight line and deeper penetration.

Hornady spends a lot of money on advertising. I'd like to see them spend less dollars on promotion and more on development of their bullets. Now having said that Hornady deserves credit, especially for keeping the large safari calibers alive. I'll be headed to the shooting range in a couple hours to shoot my .470 double. While none the bullets will be Hornady, they will be sitting in Hornady brass. It wouldn't matter what bullets are available to me if I didn't have brass to put them in.

 

[Jaws]

Going after DG, I want to feel confident with my equipment.
I use Hornady for practice & roll my own Swift A-frames or use the Norma African PH loaded with Woodleigh softs & FMJ's in my 450/400, 404Jeffery & .470Ne.
The DGX bullets I recovered from my backstop in comparison to say Barnes, Swift, Peregrine & Woodleighs were dismal & all lost their cores and / or fragmented terribly. (yes I understand its not the perfect test medium, but damn, the Hornady bullets looks terrible under the same conditions as the rest)
Keep in mind these are slow calibers in comparison to the .416 Rigby or .375H&H, Id hate to think how they would perform out of those calibers.

There are just so many other quality ammunition manufacturers with far less reported failures.

Saving a few $$ coz its cheap & then putting your life / PH life at risk with a bullet that has a 50% or even 10% chance of failing is just stupid reasoning.

 

[Red Leg]

It was the DGS issue. Most frustrating was Hornady’s stubborn refusal to acknowledge a problem. I had a 300 gr bullet from a .375 come apart on a sable in Mozambique. It still worked, but I was never tempted to try them on a buffalo. I brought it up with them at SCI four years ago at the height of the failure reports, and they refused to acknowledge their was an issue much less a problem with the bullet. I suppose I can understand their reluctance due to liability concerns, but it was a problem that took too long to fix. I am sure it cost them business.

The new bonded core bullet should be fine, and I am a real fan of the new ELD-X bullet in the Precision Hunter line. As noted above, we would never have returned so many classic doubles to the field were it not for Hornady, so I wish them success moving forward recapturing market share.

Sigh. The DGX not DGS. And too late to correct my typing.

 

[LivingTheDream]

This is quite a terrifying experience , WAB. Have Hornady DGS solid metal covered bullets also been known to fail ?

I have had great performance from the solids, but the old DGX is where a lot of people had failures. I read the reports and didnt want to chance it so I used A Frames.

 

[crs]

IMHO,
Hornady ammunition sales in the USA dwarf their sales elsewhere and the African DG hunting segment is a small portion of the sales to African plains game hunters.
Other bullet and ammo makers sell into the DG hunting market and some users of Hornady ammo for DG have had no problems.
Therefore, there has been a huge amount of complaints, conversation, and Internet based whining in African DG hunting circles about failure of some Hornady DG bullets. Outside those circles, few hunters know or care about the fuss being raised by the vocal few. To the larger world of hunters, this fuss is much like a Texas Dust Devil and therefore ignored. Others just go buy other good products and go hunting and I suspect this is the great majority.

Personally, I use Hornady ammo and bullets in some rifles and other brands in other rifles.
From what I have read over the past two years, Hornady has addressed their DG bullet issues and the whining and complaining about the subject has subsided; the lack of complaining is deafening!

Good Hunting!

 

[sierraone]

IMHO,
Hornady ammunition sales in the USA dwarf their sales elsewhere and the African DG hunting segment is a small portion of the sales to African plains game hunters.
Other bullet and ammo makers sell into the DG hunting market and some users of Hornady ammo for DG have had no problems.
Therefore, there has been a huge amount of complaints, conversation, and Internet based whining in African DG hunting circles about failure of some Hornady DG bullets. Outside those circles, few hunters know or care about the fuss being raised by the vocal few. To the larger world of hunters, this fuss is much like a Texas Dust Devil and therefore ignored. Others just go buy other good products and go hunting and I suspect this is the great majority.

Personally, I use Hornady ammo and bullets in some rifles and other brands in other rifles.
From what I have read over the past two years, Hornady has addressed their DG bullet issues and the whining and complaining about the subject has subsided; the lack of complaining is deafening!

Good Hunting!

@crs...I agree completely. Most hunters that I know, excluding the ones on this forum, have no idea what all this whining is about. They hunt whitetails, ducks and small game and that is all they are concerned with. This group is a small minority among all hunters and an even a much smaller minority among shooters that don't hunt at all. Not necessarily bad or good, just a fact IMO! I was a range safety officer in Florida some years back and most of our customers had no intention of ever going hunting anywhere, let alone Africa!

 

[mikecatt13]

I had a couple of boxes of Hornady bullets where the majority of bullets failed to fire...... I now have trust issues.

Were they tried in multiple guns or just one?

To address the original post, my understanding was already covered by other posts, there have been issues with DGX failures. Due to that, especially when dealing with dangerous game, I've opted for swift a frames.

However, I have and will continue to use hornady for pretty much every hunting round I fire in north america. Without actually counting. I'm guessing my wife and I have killed 25 or so deer, over 100 wild hogs, several javelina, a bunch of coyotes, an auodad, and probably something I'm forgetting, all with hornady using at least 6 different calibers and all performed perfectly. Also have used thousands of rounds in competition without an issue.

Only bullet failure we've ever had was Winchester, it was recovered and was an obvious failure and when contacted about it they didnt want to test the remaining cartridges, they wanted the failed bullet only. I asked if I would ever get it back, they said no. "So you want me to send you the evidence so you can dispose of it?" Yes, they answered...I called hornady under the premise that the issue occurred with their bullet (as an experiment), they were genuinely concerned, wanted the rest of the box to test, etc. I wont shoot Winchester ever again if you paid me to.

 

[Edster]

My hatred for Hornady stems for their lack of adherance to SAAMI specifications for their FTX bullets. In order to use these bullets, which are touted as the answer to tube magazine rifles, you have to shorten the brass. So once done you are stuck with their, in my opinion, underperforming bullet. As a reloader it is a PIA especially when buying once fired brass online. Most folks that don;t reload don't know ther is a difference between everyone elses 45-70 brass and Hornady brass that was loaded with the FXT bullet.

 

[Major Khan]

This is a copy of a previous post I made on a DGX bashing thread:

Everybody getting in line to do some Hornady bashing. I don't disagree that the DGX and DGS leave a little to be disired. I use Swift A-Frames a lot, but I also have been a fan of some Hornady bullets and ammo too. I have had lots of one shot kills using the the Superformace SST. So has my daughter.

One thing you can say about Hornady is they have probably done more for African type caliber ammo than any other US ammo maker. When they decided to come out with 458 Lott factory ammo (with Ruger chambering rifles in that caliber), that really brought the wildcat to the mainstream. Resurrected the 404J too, making factory ammo reasonably price. Who else produces 275 Rigby factory ammo? Look at the list and tell me what other US company does as many Nitro Express cartridges?

http://www.hornady.com/assets/files/ballistics/2017-Standard-Ballistics.pdf

CHOOSE BY CALIBER

• 17 Hornet
• 204 Ruger
• 5.45X39
• 22 Hornet
• 218 Bee
• 222 Rem
• 223 Rem
• 5.56 NATO
• 22-250 Rem
• 220 Swift
• 243 Win
• 6mm Rem
• 6mm Creedmoor
• 25-35 Win
• 250 Savage
• 257 Roberts
• 25-06 Rem
• 257 Weatherby Mag
• 6.5 Grendel
• 6.5X55 Swedish
• 260 Rem
• 6.5 Creedmoor
• 264 Win Mag
• 6.8mm SPC
• 270 Win
• 7mm-08 Rem
• 275 Rigby
• 7X57 Mauser
• 7x65R
• 7x64
• 280 Rem
• 7mm Rem Mag
• 7mm Weatherby Mag
• 30 Carbine
• 300 Blackout (Whisper®)
• 30-30 Win
• 300 Savage
• 308 Marlin Express
• 308 Winchester
• 30 TC
• 30-06 SPRG
• 300 H&H
• 300 RCM
• 300 WSM
• 300 Win Mag
• 300 Weatherby Mag
• 300 Rem Ultra Mag
• 30-378 Wby Mag
• 7.62X39
• 7.62x54R
• 303 Brit
• 32 Win Special
• 8x57 JS
• 8x57 JRS
• 338 Marlin Express
• 338 RCM
• 338 Win Mag
• 338 Lapua
• 357 Mag
• 358 Win
• 35 Rem
• 35 Whelen
• 9.3X62
• 9.3x74R
• 376 Steyr
• 375 H&H
• 375 Ruger
• 450-400 Nitro Express 3"
• 404 Jeffery
• 405 Win
• 416 Rem Mag
• 416 Ruger
• 416 Rigby
• 500-416 Nitro Express
• 44 Mag
• 444 Marlin
• 450 Bushmaster
• 45-70 Govt
• 450 Marlin
• 450 Nitro Express 3 1-4"
• 458 Win
• 458 Lott
• 470 Nitro Express
• 500 Nitro Express 3"
• 50 BMG

That is quite an extensive range , . 375 Ruger Fan. I am most impressed that they list the .450/400 Nitro Express , .450 Nitro Express , .470 Nitro Express and .500 Nitro Express , which are calibres for double barreled rifles . I always thought this to be rare for American companies.

 

[Major Khan]

I think the dislike of Hornady is largely excluded to dangerous game hunters and perhaps some other African plains game hunters.. and that this is mostly dude to their DGX projectiles..

Hornady is still very popular in the US among pistol shooters... they make some excellent factory pistol ammunition and pistol projectiles that are widely adopted among both law enforcement and people interested in self defense carry loads..

Their “black” line is also extremely popular among AR15 shooters as it was specifically developed for that platform.. they have “black” ammo specific for short barreled AR rifles and pistols, specific to suppressed rifles, etc...

I particularly like their 77gr “black” 5.56 round for Texas hog hunting... it’s accurate, penetrates deep, holds together well, and is devastating out of a 16” barrel on pigs...

I occasionally load their 162gr 7mm interlock bullet for my 7x57.. it’s affordable, my 7mm rifle shoots them accurately, and it’s more than potent enough for pigs and deer in this part of the US

Thank you so much , mdwest . For applications outside hunting dangerous game , l do not believe that there are many controversies revolving around Hornady ammunition.

 

[Major Khan]

I had a couple of boxes of Hornady bullets where the majority of bullets failed to fire...... I now have trust issues.

Wow , l knew that their bullets were notorious for breaking apart , but not firing at all ? That takes things to a different level of unreliability.

 

[Major Khan]

I've used their SSTs on plains game and deer and Vmax bullets in various calibers with good results. Their brass is considered second rate in the accuracy world. Some of the flack comes from their uber hyping of the Creedmoor.

Thank you , Hog Patrol . I suppose that Hornady makes lovely plains game ammunition.

 

[Major Khan]

My reason for leaving Hornady was 139gr out of 7mm-08 under 100 yards the bullets just came apart. With the mild speeds of the 7mm-08 this was unacceptable I just moved on to a bonded bullet. I believe the problem is that when people started reporting failures to Hornady they chose to turn a blind eye to the problem while other manufacturers figured out the problem.
Shawn

That sounds like an extremely understandable reason , Shawn.54 . When so many customers complain about the flaws in a product , the last thing the company should do , is to turn a blind eye.

 

[Major Khan]

I keep meaning to get a friend to send me a photo of his giraffe DGS failure. He was fairly close and put the DGX out of his 458 Lott in the shoulder. It blew up leaving a huge shallow entrance wound. His dad backed him up with a quick 286 grain neck shot out of his 9.3x62 Ruger #1 dropping the giraffe.
I suspect the 458 Lott hit the big shoulder ball, but I would have thought it would just break it and go through. But it didn’t.
I also suspect this may have been a one time isolated case because IMO any brand of bullet can fail under the right, or wrong circumstance. Even the venerable A-frame has failed.
A good reason to have a backup on DG.

Do send me the photograph as well if you ever receive it from your friend , Ridge Walker. If a DGS solid metal covered bullet can fail on a giraffe , then l would be pretty hesitant to use it on dangerous game.

 

[mikecatt13]

Wow , l knew that their bullets were notorious for breaking apart , but not firing at all ? That takes things to a different level of unreliability.

I would be cautious in using this information to draw any conclusions. As a competition shooter that fires around 15,000 rounds a year there are many factors here. Much more information is needed to place blame on what caused these failures. Considering this is something that is not commonly heard of with hornady to say the least, and the likelihood of having so many failures from only a couple boxes, I would suspect a gun issue but again cannot conclude without more data

 

[Major Khan]

It was the DGS issue. Most frustrating was Hornady’s stubborn refusal to acknowledge a problem. I had a 300 gr bullet from a .375 come apart on a sable in Mozambique. It still worked, but I was never tempted to try them on a buffalo. I brought it up with them at SCI four years ago at the height of the failure reports, and they refused to acknowledge their was an issue much less a problem with the bullet. I suppose I can understand their reluctance due to liability concerns, but it was a problem that took too long to fix. I am sure it cost them business.

The new bonded core bullet should be fine, and I am a real fan of the new ELD-X bullet in the Precision Hunter line. As noted above, we would never have returned so many classic doubles to the field were it not for Hornady, so I wish them success moving forward recapturing market share.

Thank you so much for your input , sir . I admit that you are a far more forgiving gentleman than l . If l ever had the misfortune to have a bullet break apart and the manufacturer was dismissive of my complaint , then l would never wish them well.

 

[Scrumbag]

I have a little Norma and Nosler brass and a lot of Hornady brass for my 404J. No issues at all with the Hornady brass.

Really? I find that having run several boxes through my rifle several in every 20 get case mouths that get bent to sharp angles and I don't want to round out

Scrummy