500 Jeffery VS 505 Gibbs

Discussion in '.375 & Up' started by matt85, Aug 16, 2014.

  1. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    ive been looking into to both these cartridges and for the most part they seem pretty similar. both are able to push 525gr/535gr bullets at 2300+ and both will push a 600gr bullet at 2100+ which means both fill my desires. the 500 Jeffery uses a more common bullet size but the 505 Gibbs case seems a little better built (in my OP). for what ever reason it seems the 600gr bullet for the 500 jeffery is a little harder to find since its typically loaded with a 570gr bullet (i prefer the 600gr for better SD).

    which do you like better and why?

    thanks
    -matt
     

  2. spike.t

    spike.t AH ENABLER SPONSOR Since 2013 AH Ambassador

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    matt i wouldnt have thought there are that many people out there that have much if any experience with both the .505 gibbs and .500 jeff :unsure:
     

  3. flatwater bill

    flatwater bill AH Elite

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    Matt.............I have never even shot either of these cartridges, but I want to buy a bolt gun to handle one, just the same. I asked your question to a man at SCI in 2011, who had both for sale. These were barreled actions still in the white. He claimed to have worked for Ferlach for many years, and I doubt there is a much better bolt than the ones they make. He said it was a no brainer....the Gibbs was better...................a longer neck for reloading, and no rebated case head, to be missed by the bolt when that rapid second shot is needed, but the magazine spring is dirty or worn. When looking at the two cartridges side by side, this difference is evident. The Jeffery was originally loaded with 535 grain bullets, giving the same sectional density as the Gibbs slightly smaller diameter 525 bullet, but I see that several custom bullet makers (eg Hawk) make heavier bullets for each.
    I think I have one more buffalo hunt in me, and I want to use a Gibbs, mostly for nostalgia......FWB
     
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  4. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    spike.t, all the more reason to ask the question and hope at least one or two people have tried them.

    flatwater bill, thanks for the info. just from looking at pictures of the two cartridges side by side I can tell the Gibbs has a sturdier built case which looks more suitable for reloading. the only real downside I can see to the Gibbs cartridge is the odd bullet diameter. thankfully Woodleigh makes both softs and solids in 525gr and 600gr for the 505 Gibbs so there are available options out there.

    thanks
    -matt
     

  5. flatwater bill

    flatwater bill AH Elite

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    Matt.................if all you can get is those worthless Woodleigh bullets than there is a REAL problem.........................................................Of course I am joking...............if you have Woodleighs for your rifle, you need not look further, They are what I will use if I ever pony up for that double square bridge magnum Mauser 505........................FWB
     

  6. colorado

    colorado AH Fanatic

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    I went through the debate and bought (really had built) a 500 Jeffery on a CZ 550 action. It started out as a 375 H&H and I had Harlan at Triple River Gunsmithing (they do most of the CZ USA Custom Shop work) rebarrel it. It needed a bit of work to get it to feed and function flawlessly but it was worth it. I really like the 505 Gibbs, but I think the CZ bolt face's diameter is too small for the cartridge. The cost of having one built from scratch was beyond my budget. I've loaded the 570g TSX up to 2510 fps, but at 2300 fps it's a lot kinder to my shoulder and will still kill anything that walks the planet.

    [​IMG]
     

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  7. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    thats a very nice looking CZ!

    -matt
     

  8. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Matt85,

    I agree that the Gibbs case probably lends itself more readily to reloading, and the full width "rim" is potentially more reliable for feeding, not to mention that it was designed to operate at lower pressure than the Jeffery was - a definite plus in tropical climates.

    However, I went with the .500 Jeffery instead, due to projectile availability.
    .510 - .511 diameter bullets are available from lead round ball through 600 gr JSP and FMJ Woodleighs, at least.

    Currently, I am having mine extensively worked over to ensure reliability, rebated rim and all.
    It has been a frustrating adventure but in the end, I am confident that it will be quite a fine DG rifle (but not cheap).

    With it, I should be able to shoot reduced loads with cast or swaged lead bullets, otherwise intended for the old and many black powder .50 cartridges.
    Likewise, I should be able to shoot full power 570 grain bullets otherwise intended for the .500 Nitro 3", not to mention the classic 535 grainers originally intended for the Jeffery to begin with.

    Chomping at the bit to get it all going.
    The Gunsmith recently called me to say that it is now feeding well.
    Can hardly wait to fire it soon.

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     

  9. matt85

    matt85 AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I do like the Jeffery for bullet availability. but the more I think about it, the more I like the 505 Gibbs. mostly for case design as reloading cartridges with thin/weak rims is a serious pain in the butt. full length sizing my 500/416 NE brass is a delicate task and I have destroyed a handful of very expensive brass by not being careful enough. 500/416 NE brass has a very thin fragile rim which will pull off easily in a press.

    you mentioned using swaged/cast lead bullets. I could always run .510/.511 bullets threw a .506 sizer to make them usable in the 505 Gibbs. taking off .005" is very easy and wouldn't even ruin the lube grooves.

    -matt
     

  10. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Matt85,

    I hear you loud and clear amigo.
    And I agree the Gibbs is more hand loader friendly, due to the more generous neck length.
    Likewise, I am with you 100% on thin/weak rimmed cases being tedious to reload, I do not prefer them either.
    Truly, I did toss and turn over whether to get the Gibbs or the Jeffery for a long while.
    However, the Jeffery's rebated rim is neither thin nor weak, from all I have read about it and the cases I have for mine (both Norma empty brass and as well 10 Kynoch live 535 grain JSP) definitely appear thick and stout.
    Have not yet resized any though and I might be surprised yet.

    Need to get on it soon as my rifle is about to make it's triumphant return to my toy box, and therefore soon to the rifle range for function and accuracy testing.
    Your notion of swaging the .51 dia. bullets to .50 seems like an excellent plan.
    I have heard of people doing the same with jacketed DG bullets as well (but some serious leverage might be required for such heavily constructed JSP / DG types?)

    Cheers,
    Velo Dog.
     

  11. colorado

    colorado AH Fanatic

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    I think bullet selection is pretty good for the Gibbs. You can buy Woodleighs, Barnes or A-Frames for the 505 Gibbs. Can't go wrong with that. If I could've afforded a GMA action I would've gone that route. Happy with what I have though. Best of luck either way you'll be part of the "50 club"

    :)
     

  12. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I didn't realize A-Frames are now being made in .505 Diameter.
    That is excellent news.
    I did however know that Barnes was making .505 bullets (Likewise, I have some .510 Barnes monolithic solids in 235 grain for my Jeffery, just in case I decide I need to damage an engine block or if I ever get drawn for a brontosaurus tag someday.

    Also, on this .500 & .505 topic, you were correct (as I knew you were) regarding having to re-work the follower in the CZ .500 Jeffery.
    The Gunsmith here re-shaped mine with his milling machine and also after a bit of hand filing the rails, now reportedly my bazooka is feeding like a pig.
    Likewise, he had to address the short / tight chamber as well but evidently that was the easy part.
    Blah, blah, blah,
    Out.
     

  13. colorado

    colorado AH Fanatic

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    Good to hear your rifle is working well. Every big bore we have including a stock Rem XCR II in 375 H&H and a M70 Classic CRF in 416 Rem have needed some touch up work to make the feed and function flawlessly. They have all been worth it.

    :)
     

  14. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Thanks Colorado.
    Also, I guess I have been lucky since all factory rifles I have ever bought or traded for, new and used but mostly used (quite a pile of rifles over my lifetime) have fed and chambered properly.
    Someone said that it is better to be lucky than good.
    However, it looks like my luck ran out when I bought my brand new CZ so called "Custom Shop" 550 Magnum in .500 Jeffery.
    Oh well, I did learn a huge lesson from my expensive error, IE: It was in my foolishly presuming their so called "Custom Shop" really was one (the joke was on me that time for sure).
    My best,
    Velo Dog.
     

  15. Daniel Cary

    Daniel Cary AH Senior Member

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    Greetings sir. I don't know if your still an active member here as I'm new to the site. Foremost Tripple River looks as if they did an excellent job, beautiful, and hope it performs just as well. As CZ has essentially discontinued the .50's Built in the Czech, I spoke to Trippel River yesterday. I have some general questions regarding the 500 Jefferey if your willing. Thank You, Dan.
     

  16. colorado

    colorado AH Fanatic

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    I think if you talk to Harlan he will build you one. He re barreled/rechambered my CZ550 in 375 H&H to 500 Jeffery. I imagine he would do the same for a 505 Gibbs. I had a few issues getting it to feed correctly. Harlan worked on it, then Wayne at AHR and finally Kevin Weaver in Colorado Springs (where I live). Mine has a McGowen 1 in 10" twist barrel, very accurate, might want to go 1 in 12" if I were to do it again, but it works great. Took some time, not much money but it was worth it. I believe a 505 Gibbs would be easier from a feed and extraction perspective to get made. Can't go wrong with the big 50s :)
     

  17. Royal27

    Royal27 AH ENABLER AH Ambassador

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    Since this thread is back to life.....

    I happen to know that @spike.t has a wonderful short barreled. 500 Jeff now. It is pleasant to shoot even. Although my wife said something about the noise. :D:eek:
     
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  18. Daniel Cary

    Daniel Cary AH Senior Member

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    When I had spoke with Triple River, "I couldn't Recall her name, as I didn't note it" However, Yes she explained they'll cont. to "build to spec. for an individual & for CZ", as CZ discontinued the .50's essentially. Nothing Czech built, so anything surfacing a dealer may find, is it "Classics" of course. The 505 Gibbs are gone, as the dealer can still get the 500 Jefferey last I checked. … At this point, I'd prefer Triple River build to spec.

    A short Barrell 500 Jefferey sounds even better!

    If anyone's willing to entertain the pivotal question, again as this is how I found the thread! 505 vs 500 Jefferey. The dealer tracked the 500 Classic, and I backed off due to the countless threads of the cycling issues with the 500 Jefferey in CZ. "You can clearly see a group on YouTube, sporting this rifle for fun, feedback, etc. In the video, I noticed a cartridge flying out of the action as he recycles the bolt for his next shot!

    I'm partial and more interested in the 505 Gibbs, "enthusiast & functional standpoint" as I have a couple boxes of 600 grn WDL. As I looked at the ballistics of both, I noticed the 500 Jefferey can get into the 8000 plus ft/lbs of energy loaded respectively, which got my attention!

    Can a 505 Gibbs be loaded to produce that much Energy? And ...
    From a general Standpoint, "Factory 505 600 grn, or Norma 500 Jefferey 575 grn," … Does anyone notice a difference in Felt Recoil.

    As erroneous this sounds … I'm searching for whichever produces the most Recoil!




    ,
     

  19. kurpfalzjäger

    kurpfalzjäger AH Enthusiast

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    I have a custom rifle from Ritterbusch/Germany caliber 12.7x70 Schüler , no 500 jeffery after the normalization , and have hunted several times in Africa with it. I use the classic 535gr FMJ bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2400 fps. I have shot at times a 505 Gibbs rifle and cartridges loaded with the classic 525gr bullet , but never hunted with this kind of rifles.

    IMHO , the recoil of the 500 Jeffery cartridge is stronger than that of the 505 Gibbs cartridge. However, my rifle 12,7x70 with the scope is only about 8 Ibs heavy , which of course boosts the recoil.

    I would still rather recommend the cartridge 500 jeffery. The rifles for this cartridge are easier to built because of the size of the cartridge , the components easier to find and the cartridge easier to reload.

    Both cartridges are intended primarily for elephant hunting. For buffalos , and the rest of the big game , you are as a guest hunter , and also as a PH , absolutely overgunned. A rifle caliber 416 is perfect for this purpose , with all the advantages in terms of recoil , among other things. But it still makes fun to hunt with such rifles caliber 50.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019

  20. IvW

    IvW AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    500 Jeff all the way.

    Better bullet selection, 570gr Brass meplat solid shoots through a Rhino from the front end(how much more penetration you need?), it has a more efficient case, less recoil, bigger bullet, one more extra cartridge on the same action can be loaded to very impressive ballistics, can be built on standard length action, etc. etc. etc.
     

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