416 Rem Mag vs 404 Jeffrey

[Shootist43]

Toby, it is the operating pressure of the caliber we are talking about, nothing more or less. The 20% more pressure in the 416 Rem pushes both ways. What is so hard to understand about that?

 

[Capt_Oscar]

Do you own a 375 H&H with the dreaded belt?

Yes, in a standard push feed bolt. I use it for large North American game (moose).

 

[TOBY458]

Toby, it is the operating pressure of the caliber we are talking about, nothing more or less. The 20% more pressure in the 416 Rem pushes both ways. What is so hard to understand about that?

If that is the case, then the 416 Rigby should recoil less than them all, correct?

 

[TOBY458]

Ok fellas. I'm going to bow out on this one. Let's just agree that both cartridges are good for their intended purpose.
I'll be sure to show you all my new 404 when I get it.

 

[Shootist43]

If that is the case, then the 416 Rigby should recoil less than them all, correct?

Yes, in fact the venerable old 416 Rigby has a max pressure of 47137 psi., your 416 Rem. "thumps" harder than it as well. The difference here is that most folks want a heavier rifle for that caliber, thereby reducing the recoil. Case in point, my 416 Rigby weighs 11.5 pounds and is reasonably comfortable for me to shoot.

Along this same line, I see that The Montana Rifle Co's new 404 Jeffery in their African model weighs 7 lbs. 15 oz. That is a little lighter than I'd like. I'll weigh both of my 404(s) and pass the info on to you, both rifles are equipped with a Nikon Monarch 3 1.5 -4 X scope.

 

[TTundra]

Ok fellas. I'm going to bow out on this one. Let's just agree that both cartridges are good for their intended purpose.
I'll be sure to show you all my new 404 when I get it.

I think I'm going to dive into this more....but create another thread. I just cannot imagine that a 404J and 416RM shooting the same weight bullet, with the correct charge to shoot at the same muzzle velocities, in the same weight gun, with the same design stock, has any discernible felt difference in recoil as the online calculators Ive used show almost the same recoil ft/lbs and velocity.

Then again, I am no mechanical engineer, but I do work with a few that are shooters themselves and may find it fun to dive into this.

 

[Shootist43]

I'll be sure to show you all my new 404 when I get it.

Toby are you actively looking for or do you have your eyes on a 404 Jeffery?

 

[TOBY458]

Toby are you actively looking for or do you have your eyes on a 404 Jeffery?

Ok fellas. I'm going to bow out on this one. Let's just agree that both cartridges are good for their intended purpose.
I'll be sure to show you all my new 404 when I get it. [/QUOTE]
Neither at this time. I'm going back to hunt with Pieter again this year, so I guess I need to hold off on buying any more rifles for now.

 

[colorado]

I think I'm going to dive into this more....but create another thread. I just cannot imagine that a 404J and 416RM shooting the same weight bullet, with the correct charge to shoot at the same muzzle velocities, in the same weight gun, with the same design stock, has any discernible felt difference in recoil as the online calculators Ive used show almost the same recoil ft/lbs and velocity.

Then again, I am no mechanical engineer, but I do work with a few that are shooters themselves and may find it fun to dive into this.

You are absolutely right. Given the same weight rifle, bullet weight, bullet velocity and powder charge the recoil in ft/lbs and recoil velocity will be identical.

 

[BeeMaa]

Ok fellas. I'm going to bow out on this one. Let's just agree that both cartridges are good for their intended purpose.
I'll be sure to show you all my new 404 when I get it.

Cool, can't wait to see it.

So what will we set the over/under line at for the rifle weight of this rifle?
Thinking 9# rifle alone, no scope, sling or ammo.

Takers?
I'm taking the under.

 

[TOBY458]

Cool, can't wait to see it.

So what will we set the over/under line at for the rifle weight of this rifle?
Thinking 9# rifle alone, no scope, sling or ammo.

Takers?
I'm taking the under.

Make that 9lbs scoped and you're in the money!

 

[colorado]

A 404 Jeffery scoped? Heresy! lol

 

[BeeMaa]

Make that 9lbs scoped and you're in the money!

Smart money was taking the under anyway.

 

[Shootist43]

I'd be willing to bet that if there was a 4 lb. 505 Gibbs or similar Toby would own one!!

I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that Toby's derringer is a 45/70?

 

[BeeMaa]

Ever heard of NULA - New Ultra Light Arms?
They offer a Model 32 Professional Hunter in calibers based on the 404J and weigh in at 7.25#.
For those who are recoil sensitive there is also the Model 40 African based on the 416 Rigby that comes in at a whopping 8 3/4#.

I've always preferred a rifle that's built for comfort, like my women.
Wife is gonna kill me if she reads that one.

 

[TOBY458]

I'd be willing to bet that if there was a 4 lb. 505 Gibbs or similar Toby would own one!!

I wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that Toby's derringer is a 45/70?

Let's not get too extreme here! 6lbs on the 505, and 454 Casull on the derringer!

 

[TOBY458]

A 404 Jeffery scoped? Heresy! lol

Either it gets scoped, or I get better contact lenses!

 

[BeeMaa]

Either it gets scoped, or I get better contact lenses!

Get better contact lenses...so you can see into the future.

 

[Gsxrmike]

I have them both and love them both. My .404 is more accurate so that is the one I’ve taken to Africa. It performed beautifully on buffalo.
On the downside my .404 is from the CZ custom shop and has the well known problem of difficulty feeding rounds from the left side of the magazine that even AHR could not cure. Oh well.

 

[Rule 303]

This leads to the question, why is the 404 not the heavy lifter today? If it was not for this forum, I would not be familiar with this caliber.

I have not read all of this thread yet so this may have been covered.
The 404J has an old case design in that it has a very long neck and tapper compared to modern cases. I feel most who do not know the heritage would not buy it because of the case design and all the negative press ignorant people would heap on it. Well thats my take on it.

Take a 300 RUM and neck to 404, presto a modern 404 that will do every thin the 404J does and a bit more if turns people on.