375 H&H a dud?

[spike.t]

the venerable 375 H&H Magnum is overrated."

ok wayne @BRICKBURN sorted......

 

[Red Leg]

I will not comment on the 280 yard shot at the Giraffe other than that with correct shot placement and the right bullet the 375 H&H is capable of taking any animal on the planet..

Ron Spomer needs to study shot placement more carefully.

I think this article is a load of crap and was done as a publicity stunt or he just plain cannot shoot a 375 H&H properly and instead of admitting this and moving down to a smaller caliber he can handle he is blaming incompetence of the users on the caliber!!

It seems they are shooting too high in most cases and then blaming this on the cartridge.

Lets see why I would make this statement.

Double lung shot on buffalo is very effective. If breaking both scapula's is classified as "no broken bones" well they are confused.
Breaking both scapula's means the shot went high and even though the spine was missed the shock of the bullet passing that close to the spine or the bullet even clipping one of the bones connected to the spine would cause a buffalo to drop at the shot.

Same wife, same Blaser R8 rifle, same Zeiss scope, same TSX bullet, big warthog. One neck shot. Done. Nary a twitch. But of course. What else would you expect?

Well nothing-a neck shot with almost any caliber, using a TSX that hits the vertebrae of a warthog will have the same effect!!!

Later, however, everything is the same except the quarry is a tasty little reedbuck about the size of a typical Virginia whitetail. It soaks up 3,800 foot-pounds of kinetic energy from the 300-grain poison pill tight behind the shoulder and runs off as if evading a cheetah.

Wrong bullet for the animal, the 300 gr TSX probably never expanded causing little damage and just pushing through like a solid. As for soaking up 3800 ft lbs well not much energy transfer took place, that happened on the other side of the reed buck in the bush!

High shoulder shot clips spine. One and done. He was using Winchester Safari factory loads pushing 300-grain Nosler Partitions.

Although mature this is not a old Blue wildebeest. I ques it makes no difference. Very lucky shot I would say, way to high(just at the curve of the right horn in the picture).

BWB is one of the animals you never want to shoot too high, many have been lost as a result(as the author came to realise although he had no idea where he shot it at 285 yards). Had he been using a harder bullet or not been lucky enough to (clip the spine), this BWB may well have been lost or a substantial time would have been spent trying to track it down with no blood on the track.

Again clipping the spine with almost any caliber would result in that animal dropping, in many cases requiring a follow up shot.

Several years later I’m back in Namibia centering my Leupold reticle over an eland bull’s neck. I engage the Blaser R8 trigger, sending a 300-grain Norma Oryx bonded bullet into one of the world’s largest antelope. It is dead before it hits the ground, vertebrae shattered. One would expect nothing less.

Again any appropriate caliber would have the same results when shattering vertebrae!!

INEXPLICABLE UNDER-PERFORMANCE FROM 375 H&H MAGNUM
An Asian water buffalo is ambling through scrub brush on the Argentine pampas no more than 100 yards from the muzzle of my H-S Precision 375 H&H. When my Swarovski scope reticle covers its shoulder, the rifle barks, and the 300-grain Partition strikes. The bull bounces on its nose, rises, and disappears, never to be seen again. Stunned with a high shoulder hit that missed spine? Most likely, but I wouldn’t have called the shot high at the time. Low, if anything.

WHAT!! Is this guy serious?? He cannot hit the vital triangle of an Asian water buffalo at 100 yards???He does not even know or cannot figure out where the hell he hit it! high shoulder or low if anything!!

Ouch, he needs to be spending more time practicing to hit what he is aiming at instead of trying to blame the tools he is using!!

One Winchester 300-grain Partition load from this H-S Precision rifle in 375 H&H Magnum with Swarovski Z6 scope handled this Asian water buffalo, but the same rig notched a hit-and-lost buffalo the day before. Why?

Well that is an easy answer, SHOT PLACEMENT!

This next oops it’s a blue wildebeest bull at 285 yards. I’m using the same scope, rifle, and ammo Dean had used for his blue wildebeest. I hold high on the shoulder. Bullet impacts mid-shoulder and kicks up dust out the backside. The bull never stumbles, never wobbles. Just dashes off to join the herd. I think I have missed high. We watch him run with the herd across a wide valley, then amble into the brush, a red bloom on the center of his shoulder. We sneak in to the bedded herd at mid-day and glass it carefully, never finding the bull. An all day search by several professional trackers turns up nothing.

Well what do you expect! He cannot hit an Asian water buffalo at 100 yards but deems himself fit to take shots at BWB at 285 yards. He is already shooting too high to start with and then over compensates for the distance again hitting the BWB too high!
He holds high, states the bullet impacts mid shoulder(passing all the way through) and then he thinks he missed high! The red bloom indicates he did not miss.

The bull would have left the herd.

Of course the all day search would have turned up nothing as the bull would have left no blood trail and the last sentence indicates that he did not join the all day search.

Again incompetence on the shooters behalf, with his abilities he should never have taken the shot! But he finds it more convenient to blame the cartridge instead of his own inability to use it properly!!

A friend hits a waterbuck with a 250-grain Barnes TTSX directed with his Winchester M70 375 H&H Magnum under a Nightforce scope. He, PH Werner von Seydlitz, a skilled tracker, and two Jack Russel terriers work out the slight blood trail for nearly a half mile before coming up on the beast and finishing it. Later this same hunter uses the same 375 and hits and loses a nice oryx bull.

Where exactly where these shots placed???PH Werner von Seydlitz, a skilled tracker, and two Jack Russel terriers work out the slight blood trail

This clearly once again points out poor shot placement!! If the shot hit any of the vitals a blood trail would have been better than "slight"!

hits and loses a nice oryx bull

Only reason could be poor shot placement!! What does "hits" mean? Ass, guts???

There is NO water buck or oryx bull available in the whole of Africa, that will either go half a mile or be lost if shot either through the heart or lungs, period!!

Poor shot placement no matter what caliber you are using will however produce many wounded and even lost animals.

Finally, he parks a bullet center chest, right on the shoulder of a kudu bull that leaps into thick brush and stays on its feet for 78 seconds as the hunter tries to find an opening for a follow up shot.

Finally, -that to me means he was having a hard time placing shots close to where they should have gone in the first place on the previous animals! Again, pilot error!

The shot placement at first glance seems to be good. However what was the position of the kudu when the shot was taken? Slightly quartering to? Then it would have been the perfect shot. Slightly quartering away? Then the shot was placed too far forward.
Even for a perfect broadside presentation the shot is slightly too far forward.

That shot probably just clipped the front of the heart and one or both lungs and although fatal, would take some time to have the desired effect. Just over a minute is not a long time for a marginal shot.

These performances were all the more puzzling in light of the other hunters in camp who had terminated these same species quickly with plain Jane 30-06s and 7mm Rem. Mags, at least one of them using Barnes TTSX bullets.

Well for somebody with his alleged experience I find it laughable that he is puzzled!! The answer is shot placement!!

Why didn’t these 250- to 300-grain 375s through the old “boiler room” (as we called the vital heart/lung zone back in the 1960s) finish these animals sooner — or at all?

Well in order to accomplish that you sir first have to figure out where this "boiler room" is situated and then find a caliber and rifle you are competent with in placing the bullet there.

Blame shot placement? Like pilot error in aviation disasters, that’s most likely.

Absolutely!

But careful examination of the evidence doesn’t support this in most cases. The reedbuck, kudu, wildebeest — all center-shoulder impacts.

Oh my!!

The reedbuck-behind the shoulder-not centre!

kudu-forward not centre!

wildebeest-I hold high on the shoulder. Bullet impacts mid-shoulder and kicks up dust out the backside. The bull never stumbles, never wobbles. Just dashes off to join the herd. I think I have missed high. -how the hell does this end up being a center shoulder impact!! You have no idea where you hit it! Apart from some blood later seen on the shoulder that could very well have come from hitting it way too high and it ran down!

As for the Asian water baffalo, the shot was taken while he was walking-Stunned with a high shoulder hit that missed spine? Most likely, but I wouldn’t have called the shot high at the time. Low, if anything.-again he has no idea where he actually hit this buffalo!!! A most likely shot too high missing the spine becomes low if anything!! at 100 yards!!!

I honestly don’t know. But it’s reaching the point where I’m hesitant to trust a 375 H&H Magnum when there’s a puny old 30-06 as an option. And that’s saying a lot.

That there Sir is the answer! Switch to a caliber you can competently shoot and leave the King of the medium bores to the folks who can shoot them! You will be much better off with a 30-06.

This way they would be able to place the shots where they need to go instead of blaming the tools they have chosen and are clearly unable to handle!!

Shot placement is the problem here and not caliber choice! Bullet choice on the reed buck could have been better but the shot placement was good enough to get the job done.

No animal can survive a properly placed bullet from a 375 H&H using appropriate bullets for the task, period...

Really well done counselor!

 

[Ridgewalker]

Really well done counselor!

+1, but IvW don’t take him too seriously, after all he’s just a writer trying to make a living.

 

[tarbe]

This is actually the Spomer Index after this article...

 

[BRICKBURN]

I think he succeeded in obtaining attention.

 

[flat8]

I read this. I’ve got far less experience than Ron, but I’ve taken everything from steenbok to kudu with my .30-06 and many N American animals with my .270 Winchester. Thankfully never lost an animal, though I almost did with a very poorly placed shot on a hartebeest. Anyway, this year was the first year I hunted with a .375 H&H (cow elk), and the results were devastating. The AccuBond entered, expanded, completely destroyed the heart, and exited the other side. The animal did not take a single step. Again, I’m a novice compared to the writer, but there’s a century of evidence and my own experience that contradicts his thesis.

 

[tarbe]

lvw summed it up very nicely.

Spomer seems to be placing blame on a cartridge/bullet instead of correctly placing the blame on poor shot placement (even though he seems to admit, at least nearly so, that shot placement was suspect in several cases).

I thought he was above such an article.

 

[meigsbucks]

I have met and talked to Ron Spomer on a couple of occasions as well as read some of his work. Although, as Ridgewalker suggests, that writers need to stir the s—t now and then to generate interest, I would have expected better from Spomer. It is ALL about bullet placement.
On my first safari, first day, I had to take a quick, longer shot on an eland. In my haste, I neglected to ask the PH for the range and hit the eland low with a .375 using a 300gr Swift. One blob of blood, 15 miles of tracking later, we lost the animal. My fault... period!
I went on to take two impala and a bushbuck on that hunt and an elk years ago with that .375. No issues. The two impala dropped to the shot. One at 75 yds and the other at 180 yds. The bushbuck (160 yds) took about three walking steps and went down. The elk was taken back in the 1980’s using a 270gr Hornady at about 175 yds. Staggered forward for about 10 yds and down.
Although I would prefer a cartridge that begins with a .4 for buffalo, I wouldn’t hesitate to use a .375. And for a one rifle, buff and PG safari, it would be tough to find a better choice (is there one?) than a .375.

 

[Ryan]

Ron flat out says this will stir up things and he is right. He throws out his observations and lets you make your own minds up, that is what scientific discussion is all about. I have zero problems with this article. The 375, be it in front the H&H, Ruger, Weatherby or whatever is an exceptional penatrating bullet. That has it's downside if not considered. What he's showing to me is sometimes it's energy isn't dissipated much on straight flesh hits on smaller animals. As @tarbe states "Likely, the 300gr X Bullet dumped a large portion of its KE on something beyond the reedbuck". @ Phillip Glass appears to have the same experience when not hitting bone. I'm not giving up my 375 Ruger, way too much proof it works, but this and what many of you have added point out that either a rapidly expanding bullet or even a flat nosed bullet out of it might be the better choice for lighter game in order to transfer energy before it passes through.

 

[tarbe]

Ryan - You are absolutely correct.

In addition to focusing more on shot placement, he should have also pointed out the problems caused by using an improper bullet for the game being hunted!

As opposed to just suggesting the 375 is somehow lacking....

 

[IvW]

Ron flat out says this will stir up things and he is right. He throws out his observations and lets you make your own minds up, that is what scientific discussion is all about. I have zero problems with this article. He 375, be it in front the H&H, Ruger, Weatherby or whatever is an exceptional penatrating bullet. That has it's downside if not considered. What he's showing to me is sometimes it's energy isn't dissipated much on straight flesh hits on smaller animals. As @tarbe states "Likely, the 300gr X Bullet dumped a large portion of its KE on something beyond the reedbuck". @ Phillip Glass appears to have the same experience when not hitting bone. I'm not giving up my 375 Ruger, way too much proof it works, but this and what many of you have added point out that either a rapidly expanding bullet or even a flat nosed bullet out of it might be the better choice for lighter game in order to transfer energy before it passes through.

He just threw out a lot of hogwash and did not state the facts..He is just trying to stir the pot because he cannot shoot a 375 H&H...

Bullet performance is most certainly important and correct bullet selection is needed for the intended species and it is clear that the bullet selection was not correct, but blaming any caliber for poor shot placement and shooter incompetence well...that is just

 

[bilmcc]

Does this generation have any good outdoor writers? (This side of Jim Carmichael and Thomas McIntyre, who seems to vary from ok to spiritual. )

 

[BRICKBURN]

Barely enough gun. Shot placement did save me from a precipitous charge though.

Other demonstrations of shot placement with this caliber. My rifle in this caliber seems to have fewer problems than Mr. Spomer.
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/i-blame-all-of-you.17339/page-4

 

[flat8]

Does this generation have any good outdoor writers? (This side of Jim Carmichael and Thomas McIntyre, who seems to vary from ok to spiritual. )

Steve Rinella. ‘American Buffalo’ is a tremendous book.

 

[postoak]

I have watched Ron on his "Winchester World of Whitetail" and really like his attitude and most especially his method of hunting (usually spot and stalk), and he is an exceptional shot. BUT, I do think he has to come up with new ideas for the articles he writes.

I would put the reported failures of the .375 H&H down to the fact that so many people *use* the .375 H&H. Also, there is no way I would expect any big bore to bring down light game as quickly if bone isn't struck. The bullets just past through without expending much energy in the animal and the lower velocities mean there is less hydro-dynamic shock produced.

 

[BenKK]

You’re right, I’ve killed heaps of pigs with big cartridges, and they don’t knock them down as emphatically as .30-30, .308, .275 etc.

 

[CAustin]

On the examples involving PG animals it is likely the bullets like the Barnes that don’t expand enough that is to blame. I scratched my head on a couple bait impala that I made nice behind the shoulder shots with my .375 Ruger with 300gr Nosler Accubonds but ran a long ways. Whereas If I hit bone they went right down. I was thinking of getting some Swift Scirocco bullets loaded for it for PG. thoughts?
Philip

Philip I see on Midway USA that the 300 grain Federal Premium Tropy Bonded Bear Claw will be available soon for reloading purposes. I highly recommend them in the 375 H&H and see no reason why they wouldn’t perform well in the 375 Ruger.

As recovered from the neck of my hippo.