375 H&H a dud?

Discussion in 'Hunting Videos' started by sheephunterab, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. sheephunterab

    sheephunterab AH Fanatic

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    Despite some negative press recently about the 375 H&H by a very preeminent gun writer, we still believe in this 100 year old plus classic.
     
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  2. JakeH

    JakeH AH Enthusiast

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    Good lord, who is denigrating the .375 H&H? It’s kind of like the .30-06, it may not be the best for every situation but it is the best for any situation!
     
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  3. sheephunterab

    sheephunterab AH Fanatic

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  4. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    "If you want to start a fire storm, announce that the venerable 375 H&H Magnum is overrated."
    About says it all.
     
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  5. Hank2211

    Hank2211 AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    I watched the video. Looked like excellent performance by a bullet at a long distance on a tough animal. Not sure what the guy was complaining about when his PH said "good shooting." (Having said that, it's not a shot I'd have taken - I like to get a lot closer to giraffe).

    I also read the article by Ron Spomer, a writer I enjoy reading, and one whose opinions I respect. Having said that, he gives examples of good results as well as poor results. And goes on to say that while he can't explain the poor results, bad shot placement might be a possibility. I get that no one wants to admit to bad shot placement, at least not as a first possibility, but in my experience, it's usually the answer when something's "gone wrong."

    Spomer also looks at recovered bullets, and finds that not all have performed as well as they might have. I've had the same experience with Barnes TTSX bullets - sometimes they open up perfectly, while other times petals seem to be shed and in one case, the bullet didn't open up at all (on a giraffe neck shot). But while I wish for perfect and repeatable bullet performance very time, I'm not aware of any bullet which will always perform the same, regardless of distance, velocity, and, most importantly, what is hit and at what angle. Hide, bone, organs and muscles will often (always?) impact bullet performance. And each of those recovered bullets came out of dead animals.

    I've used the .375 H&H for all sorts of game from duiker to elephant, and I'm going to use one in a couple of weeks for Lord Derby. I will admit that I wouldn't use it on elephant again - I felt a little under-gunned, although it did the job, but for just about everything else, I'd be happy to use it. I do like my .404 or .416 on the bigger stuff, but that's more to use those guns than because the .375 under-performs.

    As a relatively mild recoiling medium bore, the .375 H&H is about as useful a caliber as there is in my opinion - I don't believe there is another which spans such a large range of potential animals and (reasonable) distances. Add to that the range of loads and bullets which are available, and the fact that ammo tends to be available almost anywhere in Africa, and you have a pretty unbeatable caliber.
     
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  6. wesheltonj

    wesheltonj AH Elite

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    Operator error.
     

  7. Chukar

    Chukar SILVER SUPPORTER AH Veteran

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    Well stated.
     

  8. sheephunterab

    sheephunterab AH Fanatic

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    I wasn't complaining....just apologizing for missing an earlier neck shot at closer range :)
     

  9. Ridgewalker

    Ridgewalker AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Thanks for the “heads up” sheephunterab! Interesting article and replies. You have to remember that outdoor writers need to create interest in order to keep audiences’ attention. They have a difficult job these days trying to make a living. Not like the “old days” of O’Connor, Kieth, Anabell, etc.
    Thanks again!
     

  10. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    And I didn't care for Spomer all that much before he committed sacrilege!
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018

  11. wesheltonj

    wesheltonj AH Elite

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    I wonder what the responses would be if was written by a prolific writer instead Spomer?
     

  12. Philip Glass

    Philip Glass LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    On the examples involving PG animals it is likely the bullets like the Barnes that don’t expand enough that is to blame. I scratched my head on a couple bait impala that I made nice behind the shoulder shots with my .375 Ruger with 300gr Nosler Accubonds but ran a long ways. Whereas If I hit bone they went right down. I was thinking of getting some Swift Scirocco bullets loaded for it for PG. thoughts?
    Philip
     
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  13. wesheltonj

    wesheltonj AH Elite

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    Several years ago, when the Obama ammo shortage was out the only ammo I could find was Norma Oryx & Kalahari plus Woodleigh. After using the Oryx, I have stopped buying other brands and just buy Norma.
     

  14. BRICKBURN

    BRICKBURN AH ENABLER SUPER MODERATOR CONTRIBUTOR LIFETIME TITANIUM BENEFACTOR AH Ambassador

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    TTSX - that little blue tip appears to help expansion. :)
     

  15. tarbe

    tarbe AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    Yeah, "click bait" was my first thought.

    And...does anyone believe that reedbuck absorbed 3,800 foot pounds of energy?

    Likely, that 300gr X bullet dumped a large portion of its KE on something beyond the reedbuck.

    All in all, a very unconvincing article!
     

  16. BenKK

    BenKK AH Fanatic

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    What a great article on shot placement!

    I was very surprised to read such an article.

    I believe the .375H&H is a highly effective cartridge.
     
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  17. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    I will not comment on the 280 yard shot at the Giraffe other than that with correct shot placement and the right bullet the 375 H&H is capable of taking any animal on the planet..

    Ron Spomer needs to study shot placement more carefully.

    I think this article is a load of crap and was done as a publicity stunt or he just plain cannot shoot a 375 H&H properly and instead of admitting this and moving down to a smaller caliber he can handle he is blaming incompetence of the users on the caliber!!

    It seems they are shooting too high in most cases and then blaming this on the cartridge.

    Lets see why I would make this statement.

    [​IMG]

    Double lung shot on buffalo is very effective. If breaking both scapula's is classified as "no broken bones" well they are confused.
    Breaking both scapula's means the shot went high and even though the spine was missed the shock of the bullet passing that close to the spine or the bullet even clipping one of the bones connected to the spine would cause a buffalo to drop at the shot.

    [​IMG]

    Same wife, same Blaser R8 rifle, same Zeiss scope, same TSX bullet, big warthog. One neck shot. Done. Nary a twitch. But of course. What else would you expect?

    Well nothing-a neck shot with almost any caliber, using a TSX that hits the vertebrae of a warthog will have the same effect!!!

    Later, however, everything is the same except the quarry is a tasty little reedbuck about the size of a typical Virginia whitetail. It soaks up 3,800 foot-pounds of kinetic energy from the 300-grain poison pill tight behind the shoulder and runs off as if evading a cheetah.

    Wrong bullet for the animal, the 300 gr TSX probably never expanded causing little damage and just pushing through like a solid. As for soaking up 3800 ft lbs well not much energy transfer took place, that happened on the other side of the reed buck in the bush!

    [​IMG]

    High shoulder shot clips spine. One and done. He was using Winchester Safari factory loads pushing 300-grain Nosler Partitions.

    Although mature this is not a old Blue wildebeest. I ques it makes no difference. Very lucky shot I would say, way to high(just at the curve of the right horn in the picture).

    BWB is one of the animals you never want to shoot too high, many have been lost as a result(as the author came to realise although he had no idea where he shot it at 285 yards). Had he been using a harder bullet or not been lucky enough to (clip the spine), this BWB may well have been lost or a substantial time would have been spent trying to track it down with no blood on the track.

    Again clipping the spine with almost any caliber would result in that animal dropping, in many cases requiring a follow up shot.

    Several years later I’m back in Namibia centering my Leupold reticle over an eland bull’s neck. I engage the Blaser R8 trigger, sending a 300-grain Norma Oryx bonded bullet into one of the world’s largest antelope. It is dead before it hits the ground, vertebrae shattered. One would expect nothing less.

    Again any appropriate caliber would have the same results when shattering vertebrae!!

    INEXPLICABLE UNDER-PERFORMANCE FROM 375 H&H MAGNUM
    An Asian water buffalo is ambling through scrub brush on the Argentine pampas no more than 100 yards from the muzzle of my H-S Precision 375 H&H. When my Swarovski scope reticle covers its shoulder, the rifle barks, and the 300-grain Partition strikes. The bull bounces on its nose, rises, and disappears, never to be seen again. Stunned with a high shoulder hit that missed spine? Most likely, but I wouldn’t have called the shot high at the time. Low, if anything.

    WHAT!! Is this guy serious?? He cannot hit the vital triangle of an Asian water buffalo at 100 yards???He does not even know or cannot figure out where the hell he hit it! high shoulder or low if anything!!

    Ouch, he needs to be spending more time practicing to hit what he is aiming at instead of trying to blame the tools he is using!!

    [​IMG]
    One Winchester 300-grain Partition load from this H-S Precision rifle in 375 H&H Magnum with Swarovski Z6 scope handled this Asian water buffalo, but the same rig notched a hit-and-lost buffalo the day before. Why?

    Well that is an easy answer, SHOT PLACEMENT!

    This next oops it’s a blue wildebeest bull at 285 yards. I’m using the same scope, rifle, and ammo Dean had used for his blue wildebeest. I hold high on the shoulder. Bullet impacts mid-shoulder and kicks up dust out the backside. The bull never stumbles, never wobbles. Just dashes off to join the herd. I think I have missed high. We watch him run with the herd across a wide valley, then amble into the brush, a red bloom on the center of his shoulder. We sneak in to the bedded herd at mid-day and glass it carefully, never finding the bull. An all day search by several professional trackers turns up nothing.

    Well what do you expect! He cannot hit an Asian water buffalo at 100 yards but deems himself fit to take shots at BWB at 285 yards. He is already shooting too high to start with and then over compensates for the distance again hitting the BWB too high!
    He holds high, states the bullet impacts mid shoulder(passing all the way through) and then he thinks he missed high! The red bloom indicates he did not miss.

    The bull would have left the herd.

    Of course the all day search would have turned up nothing as the bull would have left no blood trail and the last sentence indicates that he did not join the all day search.

    Again incompetence on the shooters behalf, with his abilities he should never have taken the shot! But he finds it more convenient to blame the cartridge instead of his own inability to use it properly!!

    A friend hits a waterbuck with a 250-grain Barnes TTSX directed with his Winchester M70 375 H&H Magnum under a Nightforce scope. He, PH Werner von Seydlitz, a skilled tracker, and two Jack Russel terriers work out the slight blood trail for nearly a half mile before coming up on the beast and finishing it. Later this same hunter uses the same 375 and hits and loses a nice oryx bull.

    Where exactly where these shots placed???PH Werner von Seydlitz, a skilled tracker, and two Jack Russel terriers work out the slight blood trail

    This clearly once again points out poor shot placement!! If the shot hit any of the vitals a blood trail would have been better than "slight"!

    hits and loses a nice oryx bull

    Only reason could be poor shot placement!! What does "hits" mean? Ass, guts???

    There is NO water buck or oryx bull available in the whole of Africa, that will either go half a mile or be lost if shot either through the heart or lungs, period!!

    Poor shot placement no matter what caliber you are using will however produce many wounded and even lost animals.

    Finally, he parks a bullet center chest, right on the shoulder of a kudu bull that leaps into thick brush and stays on its feet for 78 seconds as the hunter tries to find an opening for a follow up shot.

    Finally,
    -that to me means he was having a hard time placing shots close to where they should have gone in the first place on the previous animals! Again, pilot error!

    [​IMG]

    The shot placement at first glance seems to be good. However what was the position of the kudu when the shot was taken? Slightly quartering to? Then it would have been the perfect shot. Slightly quartering away? Then the shot was placed too far forward.
    Even for a perfect broadside presentation the shot is slightly too far forward.

    That shot probably just clipped the front of the heart and one or both lungs and although fatal, would take some time to have the desired effect. Just over a minute is not a long time for a marginal shot.

    [​IMG]

    These performances were all the more puzzling in light of the other hunters in camp who had terminated these same species quickly with plain Jane 30-06s and 7mm Rem. Mags, at least one of them using Barnes TTSX bullets.

    Well for somebody with his alleged experience I find it laughable that he is puzzled!! The answer is shot placement!!

    Why didn’t these 250- to 300-grain 375s through the old “boiler room” (as we called the vital heart/lung zone back in the 1960s) finish these animals sooner — or at all?

    Well in order to accomplish that you sir first have to figure out where this "boiler room" is situated and then find a caliber and rifle you are competent with in placing the bullet there.

    Blame shot placement? Like pilot error in aviation disasters, that’s most likely.

    Absolutely!

    But careful examination of the evidence doesn’t support this in most cases. The reedbuck, kudu, wildebeest — all center-shoulder impacts.


    Oh my!!

    The reedbuck-behind the shoulder-not centre!

    kudu-
    forward not centre!

    wildebeest-I hold high on the shoulder. Bullet impacts mid-shoulder and kicks up dust out the backside. The bull never stumbles, never wobbles. Just dashes off to join the herd. I think I have missed high. -how the hell does this end up being a center shoulder impact!! You have no idea where you hit it! Apart from some blood later seen on the shoulder that could very well have come from hitting it way too high and it ran down!

    As for the Asian water baffalo, the shot was taken while he was walking-Stunned with a high shoulder hit that missed spine? Most likely, but I wouldn’t have called the shot high at the time. Low, if anything.-again he has no idea where he actually hit this buffalo!!! A most likely shot too high missing the spine becomes low if anything!! at 100 yards!!!

    I honestly don’t know. But it’s reaching the point where I’m hesitant to trust a 375 H&H Magnum when there’s a puny old 30-06 as an option. And that’s saying a lot.

    That there Sir is the answer! Switch to a caliber you can competently shoot and leave the King of the medium bores to the folks who can shoot them! You will be much better off with a 30-06.

    This way they would be able to place the shots where they need to go instead of blaming the tools they have chosen and are clearly unable to handle!!

    Shot placement is the problem here and not caliber choice! Bullet choice on the reed buck could have been better but the shot placement was good enough to get the job done.

    No animal can survive a properly placed bullet from a 375 H&H using appropriate bullets for the task, period...
     

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  18. Russ-F

    Russ-F BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Senior Member

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    If you are a speciality ‘writer’ & wish to sell ‘copy’ - then look what works & people like - then praise it in an article.

    If you are a speciality ‘writer’ & are really running out of ideas for ‘copy’ - then look what works & people like - then criticise it in an article.

    A third route for the speciality ‘writer’ is to write about that which they know - just like Mr Keith did - it’s a somewhat harder route though!
     
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  19. IvW

    IvW AH Elite

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    The Accubonds should be fine, try moving your shot slightly forward, straight up the front leg instead of behind.
     

  20. Witold Krzyżanowski

    Witold Krzyżanowski AH ENABLER AH Legend

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    I think the same as BennKK.
     
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