22-250 for Whitetail Deer

Discussion in 'Up To .375' started by Shawn.54, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    no... I'd say that is just another emotional rant and that you still refuse to support your position with any facts and/or validate your personal attacks with any justified purpose..

    1) I personally value negative feedback as much or more than I do positive feedback. Opposing positions are what make us think and what forces someone to actually consider other options or vantage points. That said, opinions without any substantiation of fact provide very little value to a rational discussion, and replicate the "feeling" argument that hunters often encounter with "antis". I wouldnt expect emotion based arguments to ever do well on AH.

    2) I dont believe anyone ever said "smaller the caliber, the more effective". This again is an emotional response unsupported by fact.

    3) There have been numerous examples of people and companies being openly criticized by members here. I have seen the owner and the moderator of this forum openly encourage members to provide honest feedback when they disagree about something, or had a negative hunting experience, etc. What I have also witnessed in almost every case where negative feedback or a strong counter argument has been placed is the owner/moderator/long time membership seek both sides of the story, offer both parties a chance to present the "facts" as they see them, and then let the chips fall where they may.

    As stated before, what I see in your posts is a whole lot of emotion, supported by no factual information.

    Dont get upset that no one appears to care much for what you have to say. Support your thoughts with facts, and you might be surprised. My guess is people would be willing to further engage you on the subject and actually consider whether your opinion is of any value. Until you make a fact based argument rather than an emotional one, I wouldnt expect people here to care much about your opinion, no matter whether it is aligned with theirs or opposed.
     

  2. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    No i don’t believe that is very accurate at all. But feel free to assess your post however you wish. You should offer any point you feel relevant - but preferably with a modicum of either evidence or reasoning. Instead, you use the typical internet mob technique of blustering your way to an unsupported and uninformed conclusion with a bit of abuse of the OP thrown in. Just don’t see that sort of posturing here very often. Shame when we do.
     
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  3. ChrisG

    ChrisG BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    Now lets not get carried away. Bell was one of the best game shots of modern times... well... barring Mr. dwboso of course. ;)

    I am glad there is a forum (AH) where the people who use Bell as an example have ACTUALLY READ his books! BTW, anyone who hasn't, Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter is money well spent! That little scotsman had a more adventurous life than most of us could ever dream of.
     

  4. dwboso

    dwboso AH Member

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    Like I said fellas,do whatever you like...Who cares if you lose a few deer playing around......I get it... AH is an Echo chamber,either agree w whatever is posted or stay off.There isn;t one GOOD argument to support a 22 over a larger caliber for deer.....Not one...... But no one here wants good arguments,they want ATTABOYS. Just 'cause I got a couple hundred whitetails under my belt,it's still obvious I know nothing I'm done..... I wish I'd never have opened my mouth
     

  5. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    Thousands upon thousands of ethically, humanely, and quickly killed deer, hogs, and other medium sized animals.. combined with inherent accuracy, high quality/low cost /readily available ammunition, and low recoil in numerous platforms suitable for young shooters, small framed women, new shooters, etc.. isnt a good argument?

    Why isnt this a good argument (facts only please.. opinions based on emotions arent really a welcome part of the discussion)..

    Clearly you dont support centerfire 22 for deer..

    That said, industry and government both clearly do..

    Many states have made centerfire 22 legal in the past 10-20 years... and big ammo manufacturers are very specifically producing premium centerfire .22 ammunition to support it (i.e. Remington Hog Hammer 223 that uses the Barnes TSX projectile.. and Hornady Full Boar in .223, etc.. )

    Why is your opinion more valuable than say the State of Texas or the State of Tennessee's opinion? and why is your position on suitable ammunition for hunting medium sized game with ..22 centerfire more valuable than Hornady, Remington, Barnes, or others?
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  6. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    Would you consider the possibility some of the people with whom you seem so upset - for instance me - may have at least as much game, including whitetail, under their respective belts as do you? Those informed, experienced hunters are simply curious what facts inform you that the 22-250, in its modern form, is inadequate for whitetail? You have provided anger, ridicule, bluster, and insult - but not yet a single countering fact. Just saying.

    But let me help you out. I can think of two reasons to be cautious in using the .22 clan.

    One, it is an option best used by experts; Or perhaps those under expert supervision (our OP’s case). Sort of like using a .410 on quail. Deadly in expert hands - a prescription for lost and missed birds for a new shooter. Our OP has that concern we’ll in hand.

    Second, it requires the right bullet more than a larger caliber. A beginner could leave Cabelas with a box of VMax varmit rounds and be a wounding menace to any deer he encounters. That is less a potential issue in cals above .243. Again our OP fully appreciates that concern.

    No one is asking you to agree with everything- merely support you assertions with facts.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  7. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    Do not apologize for having a different opinion that is what the forum is for but just because you don’t agree does not make me a liar, it does not mean I have an ego problem, and does not mean my son is a wimp now if you have a problem tell me where it is.

    The bullets I use pass through deer at all angles giving me exit wound for tracking.

    The bullets I use leave a permanent wound channel many times larger than the diameter of the bullet.

    Now if you can give me an argument as to where the bullets are failing I want to hear it.
    Please keep the discussion to 22-250 useing GS Customs 40gr HV bullet. Or any other mono metal bullet. You can not compare these to standard cup and core bullets.
    Shawn
     
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  8. 008

    008 AH Veteran

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    The 22-250 is also widely considered one of the most inherently accurate rounds available. Many authorities that govern hunting have considered the facts and deemed it perfectly acceptable for whitetail deer. This is not an ethics issue, period.

    Many on here have also taken hundreds of deer as well as many other species and a lot of them have done it with .22 caliber centerfire ammunition.
     

  9. MS Hitman

    MS Hitman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Enthusiast

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    Sounds like Shawn had matters well in hand. I've killed deer with much less than a .22-250.

    Some people on here are going to have to come to grips with the fact that just because we disagree with your opinion, does not make us wrong. These same people need to understand that their opinion is just that, their opinion.
     
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  10. MS Hitman

    MS Hitman SILVER SUPPORTER AH Enthusiast

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    I've got over two hundred whitetail deer to my credit with handguns. That and a buck fifty will get me a cup of coffee at the local gas station. Am I on an ego trip?

    I've hunted in Africa with handguns, my medal class animals are still in the top 35 in the SCI record book for handgun kills. Does this mean I'm on an ego trip?

    A difference of opinion is fine, but why all the insults?
     
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  11. Velo Dog

    Velo Dog AH ENABLER GOLD SUPPORTER SILVER SUPPORTER AH Legend

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    Hello dwboso,

    This is the best forum in the world, in large part due to the lack of mud slinging and angry rants.

    It weakens your position when someone posts their opinion and your response is to pitch a temper tantrum.

    This is especially so, when they have posted facts with photos to match, in support their views.

    Likewise, when a member or members politely suggest you refrain from hurling insults, then yourself leaping to a sarcastic extreme, is just another way of hurling insults.

    That said, for me personally, I don't think it's a super-grand idea to use any .22 caliber rifle on deer sized critters (While we're at it, I'm not especially enamored with the .243 for deer hunting either).

    But even so, you don't see me melting down, when someone posts that them self and their young son, have experienced excellent results on deer with their carefully selected/assembled .22-250 hand-loads.

    By his writing style I'd say that, Shawn.54 is obviously possessed of well above average intellect and as such is very thorough in his research (not to mention an A+ father as well).

    And, although myself, along with some others here, would not personally use a .22 of any description for deer hunting, you will notice that we do not become overwhelmed with anger and hurl insults at this fellow and his son who, indeed have done well with such a rifle (due to straight shooting and proper bullet selection).

    Take a deep breath, relax, this is the world's greatest forum.

    Kind regards,
    Velo Dog
    (Paul Ard, Anchorage)
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2017
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  12. Bhfs300

    Bhfs300 AH Fanatic

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    In a bunch of states there isn’t even anything to discuss since it is not legal to hunt deer with anything less than 24 caliber?
     

  13. Marshall Ritchey

    Marshall Ritchey New Member

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    I have hunted in the US & Europe and have used the 223 and the 22-250 to take game. So I know they are effective and I used 55 grain Remington Corlokt, also with hand loads with 55 & 60 grain bullets and they worked fine. So congratulation on you and your sons hunt and enjoy.
     

  14. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    I put a lot of time and study into this experiment and I think that it worked out well no bullet failure and no game lost.
    Next season my son will be hunting alone and I feel he will be fine he knows to watch his shots and the capability of his cartridge.
    And as he steps out on his own I will be testing my 404 Jeffery maybe I should have him back me up.
    Shawn
     
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  15. K-man

    K-man AH Elite

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    Well there is something I think a lot of people on here, myself included, can at least agree with you on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2017
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  16. Ray B

    Ray B AH Elite

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    A friend of mine is a supervisor and one of her subordinates commonly uttered offensive comments. the supervisor made a sign for the subordinate to hang above her desk. It read:
    JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A THOUGHT, DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU HAVE TO VERBALIZE IT!!
    Apparently there are more people that could benefit from such a sign than the intended employee.
     

  17. Rick Cox

    Rick Cox SILVER SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I've only shot a few deer with a 22-250. One at about 70 yards, spined just behind shoulder. Cavity the size of a softball taking out the spine and aorta. Dead. Another at 100 yards, with a good rest, through the eye, into cranial cavity. Dead.
    This year I bought a .223 Tikka and shot a mule deer buck at about 80 yards. Through the shoulder, heart, lungs and bounced inside the rib cage. In all cases the bullets were not premium bullets. I now have some 68 gr.? Swift Scirocco II and some heavier Barnes TSX (among others). Can't wait to try these next year.
    I can't advocate high power .22s as 'deer rifles', but with considered bullets and shot options, they do the job.
     

  18. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    The reason I went with 40gr was twist of the rifle the momo metals are longer than cup and core and the 40gr is longer than 55gr cup and core the next larger mono would have been slightly longer than my rifle would stabilize.
    I use a 200gr in my 375 and my action for my soon to be 404 Jeffery is set up to feed GS Customs 320gr.
    These are light for caliber bullets but I’m shooting light for caliber game.
    Shawn
    Yes I know that me and my son hunt deer with extreme difference but my oldest uses a 35 Whelen abut dead center to even us out.
     

  19. Areaonereal

    Areaonereal AH Enthusiast

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    Not my first choice, but a 22 250 loaded with a 70grain bullet would be adequate for any North American deer within 300 yds. I have seen the damage from a 75 gr Hornady A Max at 300 yds from a 22 250 at 3100 fps....devastating damage. Many years ago a friend used a 22 250 with Nosler 60 gr partion on a Montana Muley. 150 yd broadside.and 10 yds...down and dead. Today's heavy for caliber bullets in the 22 250..,.Swift, Hornady GMX, or Barnes....70 plus grains and with plenty of fps., only caveat...twist rate needs to be faster than the standard 14 or 12 twist in most production rifles, unless using the 60 gr Nosler which should be adequate in a 12 twist but marginal in a 14 twist. Again, not my first choice, but remember the 22 250 is only the 250 Savage necked down. The 250 Savage introduced with the 87 gr once very popular Deer and on occasion an Elk cartridge in its day. So a 70 plus grain 22 caliber bullet can work if he shooter puts it where it belongs.
    ,
     

  20. Marshall Ritchey

    Marshall Ritchey New Member

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    Shawn Life is grand and nothing like hunting with family, so enjoy
     
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