22-250 for Whitetail Deer

Discussion in 'Up To .375' started by Shawn.54, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. 008

    008 AH Veteran

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    Deer are not particularly tough animals. A proper bullet in a 22-250 is plenty imo and I’ve seen many shot with it and 223s.
     

  2. Dr Ray

    Dr Ray AH Elite

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    Years ago I used my 222 Rem with 40 grain bullets stoked with Reloder something. I shot crows and it sure was effective.
    I use a 22/250 as my 222 lives w my son thousands of kilometers away.
    Me, personally I would only use my 22/250 to head shoot deer. It’s just my opinion as I feel any slight shot just off the prime target may result in a lost animal that will suffer and die.
    A good clean shot through the lungs and top of the heart would certainly do the trick but as I stated previously I feel if I were to use the 22/250 I would head shoot only.
    Personally I will stick to using my 270.
     
    1dirthawker likes this.

  3. Upton O. Good

    Upton O. Good AH Enthusiast

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    A 22-250 is a nice caliber for kids, it reduces the likelihood of developing a flinch. As has been said, the high velocity and light bullet weight don’t allow for much error in POI.

    It is clear that you researched the round and probably had your youngster fire it enough to be comfortable and accurate. Results are results and So congrats on the harvest of those deer!
     

  4. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    Sorry to touch a nerve with you. Let us start with the facts every deer shot buy this rifle had at least one lung hit the so called “gut shot” dear included and traveled less distance than the dear I shot with my 375 Ruger.
    My son has a 30-06 7mm-08 and a 30-30. It just happens that he loves his 22-250.
    He asked me if he could use it for deer. After looking into several bullet choices I found GS Customs done some research and after taking to other people and the people at GS Customs I decided to give them a try.
    Every deer that was shot with this rifle/bullet combination was dressed in the skinning shead so it could be assessed as to how the bullet performed.
    These are not your standard cup and core bullets that explode on impact the fact that on every single shot made with this bullet left an exit wound and traveled in a straight line doing considerable amount at damage for the whole length of the wound.
    In short if the bullet can penetrate in a straight line over 23” of deer leave a large wound canal and still exit the other side it must work. If it can penetrate the width of a deer going through shoulder blade and a rib on the first side and exit after the second shoulder.
    These are not varmint bullets they are designed to stay together and penetrate. The fact that they make a hole in deer 1-1.5 inches in diameter is great.
    I don’t know what you’re experience is with momo metal bullets is. But they are different than lead core.
    If you noticed I said that I backed him up with my 375 Ruger not a single deer of the six so far went far enough to get out of my sights. I would not let him shoot unless I could back him up until I saw how the bullet worked. The first one the gut shot one traveled 70 or so yards in our direction in an open field before it went down it wrecked 1 lung then entered the stomach/intestines. All others less than 20 yards and most DRT.
    I would not recommend this bullet/cartridge for Cape buffalo but after seeing the results of the deer he has shot I know that it is more than adequate for the job.
    I would love to show you what the bullet looked like after impact but as I stated even a broadside shot at 225 yards that hit the on side shoulder and exited just behind off side shoulder did not stay inside the deer. The only way to I know of to get a bullet not to exit may be to do a Texas hart Shot. And that is not allowed unless it’s already hit.

    I won’t even entertain the comments on my sons ability to shoot a larger rifle he shoots my 375 Ruger off the bench no trouble it weighs less than 8.5 pounds.
    Shawn
     

  5. CEO

    CEO AH Veteran

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    Such a smooth shooting caliber. I've never put a conventional shot on a deer with it but I did head shoot a blackbuck doe.
     

  6. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    The GS Customs mono metal bullet is what allows this cartridge to harvest deer. It is a pure copper bullet that by design will shead it’s petals loosing about 20% of it’s weight and turn into a flat face solid which we know from DG hunting how effective a flat face solid bullet is.
    I did not take this request from my son and buy him a box of cartridges and set him loose.
    I done research talked to people who used who used these bullets and then I emailed GS Customs and asked their opinion when I received their answer and recommendation of a 40gr bullet I called them thinking that it was too light the person who I talked to was the owner designer of the bullet.
    He insured me that the 40 was most compatible with my rifles twist rate. He is from South Africa where he used a 220 Swift to test barrel erosion and used it on plains game the size of whitetail with no problems.
    Reading about GS Customs bullets is where I first heard of 375 Ruger cartridge and decided I needed one.
    So once I decided to go with the 40gr HV I was still a little hesitant so we decided that we would only shoot a deer with it when I could back him up with the 375 to prevent a bad outcome so we hunted open fields where if a deer did not go down quickly I could end it.
    I would not try this with normal cup and core bullets.
    Shawn
     

  7. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    dwboso did you read my post in the first two shots I pointed out that they were not “perfect shots” one was on a angle more than I thought the second was a couple inches back further than I like I did not say any of the shots were perfect what I did say was that the bullet in all six deer preformed well no deer were lost none even went out of sight except one that fell behind a log at the edge of the field.
    Shawn
     

  8. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    The boy did loose a deer once shot in the shoulder with a 7mm-08 Hornady 139gr SP Interlock at 20 yards total bullet failure we found it three weeks later in flintlock season only because of critters eating it left tracks in the snow that led us to it .284 hole in no exit no snow to track in and thick brush that you couldn’t see a deer in at 5’ we were in clear timber beside the brush when he shot it ran in and vanished. So I know the hazards of poor bullet selection I can track a deer that has been hit as well as most but I like an exit hole to add that little extra blood to the trail. If the first deer he shot didn’t have an exit hole it probably would have ended the experiment.
    Shawn
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2017

  9. dwboso

    dwboso AH Member

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    I hear you Hitman,and don't disagree. The only thing that "blows my mind" is when it passes from the reasonable into the silly. To me, Respecting the Sport,and the Game,requires me to exercise a little self-restraint
     

  10. dwboso

    dwboso AH Member

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    Shawn,to me it doesn't matter where the shot went.What matters is whether the shot should have EVER been made w a mouse gun............Have a little respect for the game you hunt.The game is not there just for you to amuse yourself
     

  11. dwboso

    dwboso AH Member

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    Maybe a better way to put it would be"just because it CAN be done,doesn't mean it SHOULD be done.That's all there is to it
     

  12. ChrisG

    ChrisG BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I absolutely agree that a .22 caliber will do the job. But around where I live in thick Adirondack Timber, it is nice to punch a bigger hole. Not because I think necessarily it kills any faster, but because it makes tracking much easier. I can count on one hand... well... one finger the about of times I have hit a deer that ran and had it fall within eye or earshot. Most of the time a run of more than 20 yards sees the deer disappearing into the nearest, and thickest brush available. without a blood trail to follow or some good tracking skills its a chore to find a downed deer. You end up on your hands and knees looking for flecks of blood the size of Lincoln's eye on a penny. That... and I love my 6.5x55 and it just never feels right to leave it homae all alone for deer hunting. Great deer though. If you can get a good shot a .22LR will do the job through the lungs! a tough .22 high velocity only does it better!
     

  13. ChrisG

    ChrisG BRONZE SUPPORTER AH Fanatic

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    I am sorry... and I don't want to turn this into an angry argument thread... but well.... here it goes.

    I think a lot of people think deer are "tough" or that they are true"big game". Deer are really not that large. A monster, and I mean MONSTER Ottowa Whitetail would run 300-350lbs and the bullet would still only have to traverse about 12-16" from several shot angles to bring him down. Margin of error isn't that much greater with a larger caliber. A lot of this "a .222,.223,.22-250,.224 Weatherby... etc", is a "mousegun" is... well, I would say it is from the days of using cup and core bullets trying to take deer, but THAT isn't even true! My Father took several large whitetails up near Lake Placid using, yup, a .222 loaded with 50 grain Sierra PSP because it is what he had. Using a .22 caliber centerfire is EXACTLY like using ANY big game gun. You need to know the rifles limitations, you need to practice with it, you need to know where the vitals are and more importantly, you need to know when NOT to shoot. All that being said... as mentioned in my above post. if you are hunting an area that is heavily wooded like I do in the Adirondack Park, it would be wise to take a larger caliber unless your tracking skills are on par with a Capstick Bushman. That isn't to say that the job wouldn't get done. The animal would be just as dead as any shot with a .416. It would just be harder to find them.

    All that is to say that, from what I have read of Shawn, he knows his stuff about bullets and used a super premium GS Custom bullet that I can only imagine was probable a monometal 40 grain and his son made a phenominal shot that brought the deer down quickly. I would rather take my children hunting with a .22-250 that they were confident they could shoot well, than tell them they needed to use a bigger gun and as a result they stay home and never go hunting.

    There are just as many reports of people losing deer when hunting with their .270s as there are of people losing deer when hunting with a .223. It may not kill deer from any angle, but that just means you need to use a premium bullet, and be patient or not shoot. But to disparage someone for getting his kid out hunting and having a successful hunt is really not called for and quite frankly, very rude when all he was doing was being a proud parent, something I am guilty of as well.
     
    7x57Joe and 375 Ruger Fan like this.

  14. Shawn.54

    Shawn.54 AH Fanatic

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    Like I pointed out this is not his only choice for a deer hunting rifle but it is his favorite rifle I spent hours researching the bullets in question. You can spend days on GS Customs website reading about their tests in lab and on game and you will find that they make a lot of sense.
    The fact that I was backing up the first couple shots with my rifle shows that I was a little skeptical of their claims. But after seeing results I’m going to say that the bullets are up to the task.
    Shawn
     

  15. 008

    008 AH Veteran

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    Shawn nothing to defend. 22-250 is plenty gun for NA deer in the right environment. For those of us who have seen the results it’s obviously not an irresponsible choice. I wouldn’t use it in heavy brush or on mule deer but for most of the whitetail and places I hunt it’s a great round.
     

  16. Red Leg

    Red Leg AH ENABLER LIFETIME BRONZE BENEFACTOR AH Legend

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    You know one of the things that has separated this site from some of the others I no longer visit has been the absence of abusive replies. Unfortunately, that seems to be changing. Shawn opened a discussion, thoughtfully provided his opinions and observations, and asked for feed-back. I have enjoyed the dialogue.

    I get it. You don't approve of .22 for deer. But how about leaving all the chest/desk pounding and man-up nonsense at the door. I am sure you are the brilliant shot you claim to be with vast experience. You may be surprised to discover others here are at least equally steady over the sticks and experienced, but don't share your opinion. I have helped search for lost game, and sadly lost it myself, in a lot of places over the years. They were hit with a lot of different calibers. They were lost due to bad shot placement or bad luck. Thirty years ago I would never have shot a deer with a .22 caliber. It is now legal to do so in Texas and ammo manufactures are building bullets specifically designed to do so from a .223 or .22-250. I suspect more feral hogs are killed with .223's in Texas than any other caliber. I would much rather a young person use such a round than be less confident with something heavier. It is a topic worthy of adult discussion, and I am glad Shawn brought it to the table. Why don't we grant him and the other participants the courtesy of a mature discourse.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 28, 2017

  17. Ragman

    Ragman AH Elite

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    I think it's pretty hard to argue with your research and evidence. It's pretty convincing for me. In a controlled setting like my elevated hunting blind where the deer are relaxed and feeding, I would feel very confident using your son's setup on our Saskatchewan deer. And I think it's great for people who aren't comfortable shooting larger calibers. However, I can't do it here...illegal. :(
     

  18. mdwest

    mdwest AH Elite

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    Im seeing a lot of emotion in your posts @dwboso , but very little fact or evidence to back any of it up. Everything I am reading in your posts are merely opinion.

    Some relevant facts include:
    * Centerfire 22 caliber rifles are "legal" in many states now for deer.
    * .22-250 and .223 fire the same projectiles at roughly the same FPS (Although .223 is far more common as a deer hunting round than 22-250).
    * Originally a "wildcat" cartridge, the .22-250 is known to be inherently accurate
    * thousands upon thousands of deer and hogs are killed (quickly and humanely) by high velocity, centerfire 22 caliber rounds every year.
    * far more animals than any of us want to admit are wounded and/or never recovered by "bigger" caliber rounds every year
    * 5.56/.223 (a comparable round to 22-250) has been a proven military cartridge for almost 55 years and has killed countless humans in every environment and terrain imaginable from swamps to jungles to plains to snow covered mountains to deserts.. at close distances.. and at distances of several hundred meters.. .
    * Humans are generally larger, tougher, and have a greater will to live than a whitetail deer.
    * Ammo quality has improved significantly over the past several decades and there are several factory and reload options out there for hunters seeking bullets that fly straighter, penetrate deeper, and expand more reliably than ever before.
    * Shawn reports himself to be an ethical hunter and a reasonably good shot. He reports that his son is also an ethical hunter and a reasonably good shot.
    * Shawn took the time to actually contact the bullet manufacturer and obtain a subject matter experts opinion on how to develop the most effective cartridge for his intended quarry before taking any further steps.
    * Shawn then shared the results of his hunt with an audience that clearly has an interest in these sort of things.

    So.. considering all of the above.. what exactly is the problem?

    What was done is legal. What was done has been done thousands of times before by people other than Shawn. What was done was monitored closely by Shawn and there is no evidence of anything unethical or immoral taking place. Information gained by Shawn was shared with the hunting community at large in an interest of educating others.

    All seems pretty kosher to me..
     

  19. CTDolan

    CTDolan AH Elite

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    As may or may not be known, Bell wasn't afraid of taking a chest shot at a big bull elephant with his little popguns. Read his books...he did, and it did the job.

    So yeah, a .22 caliber center fire can take a deer (or hog, or...). It'd not be my choice, but it is quite capable of taking care of business.
     

  20. dwboso

    dwboso AH Member

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    OK Guys,OK....Iget it Let me make sure I follow though cuz I'm a little slow

    1 any thread that asks for feedback,Only POSITIVE feed back is welcome

    2 Of course we all know that the smaller the caliber,the more effective....Naturally,the woods are full of game lost from 270's and 06's but 223's are a death ray

    All the lip service we pay about ethical hunting,Don't give the anti's anything to work with,etc etc is just that....lip service...Do anything you like

    3 Anyone who criticizes anyone else is a loudmouth braggart or a hater

    That about cover it????
     

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