20 vs 28 gauge

I cannot remember the last time I pulled my Beretta Xtrema 12 gauge out of the safe. However, my Benelli Legacy 28 gets a lot of use on everything from dove to big Canadian Geese. It gets the most use on Pheasants and Chukar but in a blind for ducks or geese where your shots are under 30 yards and usually less than that, the 28 gauge folds them with authority.
A 28 is also a joy to carry in the pheasant fields for hours at a time. I can't see myself shooting anything different at this point.
 
Read my post carefully. It may have been around but not used extensively till about 10 years ago and I satated the reason for the resurgence. I bet the 12 and 20 had 80% of the market for over 100 years. The 16 ga became popular for a while but lost interest. Why. Because it could not do anything a 12 or 20 could do. Same applies to the 28. People may say they like it because it's "lightweight". Do you really feel a difference of 8 ounces? If you are in a stationary hunting situation, does the 8 ounces matter? If you like a 28, I respect that. But don't present it as some magical piece of equipment that exceeds it's gauge. Most of what we discuss is "opinion". They can't be right or wrong. You shouldn't demean any one because their "opinions" don't coincide with yours.
The 16 gauge is a fine cartridge. The reson it lost popularity in many parts of the country is that the people making rules for skeet did not create a 'class' for the 16. They did for 12, 20, 28, and .410. SKEET SHOOTERS created the popularity of the modern 28 gauge. I don't have a 28... too many guns already!

I have been a 16 gauge fan since 1990 and have done what I can to reinvigorate the 16 gauge and provided loading data and freely distributed information on the 16 ga. for over 30 years now. There has been a mild resurgence among bird hunters during that time.

Prairie chickens and Fox copy.jpg
 
Mandating smaller gauges and action types is no different than enforcing a dress code at a dinner club. It's exclusive, which by definition means some people are purposely excluded.

Is shooting a smaller bore any guarantee that I'll be a safe hunter? No

Is dressing in a tweed hunting jacket and wearing a tie any guarantee that I'll be a gentleman? No

Is paying over $1,000 per day any guarantee that I won't get drunk and act like a fool? No.

But we all know that certain rules, prices and dress codes are there for a reason, and that is to weed out individuals that might ruin things for everyone else.

If you don't want to follow their rules, don't want to dress and act the part, then don't go.

Me? I'd love to hunt in that fashion with that type of shotgun at those birds at that type of Lodge, and someday I will.

Not a guarantee, but a pretty good warranty.

If you pay $18,000 to join a premiere club and pay perhaps $4000-$6000 hunting birds at said club, and pay a $5000 annual dues, you’re likely to follow their rules. Failure to follow rules results in ejection, death of your business network, disappointment with your spouse who is now socially ostracized, etc.

You might say well that’s very snooty, but I’d prefer to think of it as grave consequences. Whenever I’ve had guests that behaved like a-holes, regardless of their social standing it was because they didn’t earn access to the opportunity I provided them. Autoloaders, swinging through other hunters, improper dress, or bringing their not-invited dog with them that was not properly trained are just some of these examples.

Private clubs with rules are safer because people generally don’t want to lose their investment and reputation being unsafe or uncouth.
 
I know its probably a dead horse and I did a search, only found some goofy banter. I sold my Benelli Ethos Sport 12 gauge. I now need to replace it. I'm an oldie (73) and don't like the recoil anymore. SO, I'm going to a 20 or 28. I only hunt doves and shoot SC, 5-stand and Skeet.

In y'alls opinion, if I buy a 28 will I be giving away many birds? I think modern factory loaded 28's will keep up with the 20.

I don't shoot a ton of rounds so the slightly higher ammo costs is not a worry

I respect everyone's opinion here.
@Ltach578 - 28GA is a nice light gauge and while very close to 20 ga performance it will Never keep up completely with a 20 gauge and especially past 25 yards… that is why NSSA skeet requires a 20 ga shooter must average 97% for a “AA” classification but a 28 ga shooter only needs 96.5% for “AA”. Very minor and part of that is because skeet targets are shot at 21 yrds or closer. So, theoretically you “lose” 1 target out of every 200 due to the smaller guage (not sure how NSSA determined that?). Some competitors shoot 20 ga in 12ga events but few will shoot a 28 ga in a 12 ga event. There will be more of a difference beyond 25-30 yrds (as is often found in Hunting & Sporting Clays) thats where the 20 guage 7/8oz of pellets (vs 3/4oz 28GA) has a bit more of an advantage. Another consideration - 28 ga cost much more per box then 20 ga - 25%+ more. Overall, the difference is slight but it’s there.
 
We should put this on the list of unresolvable topics. Others include:
375 too little for buff/too big for plains/perfect one gun battery
R8s suck/are the holy grail
never/always take solids
Leupold is better than/crap compared to Swaro
doubles are pointless ego guns/best tools ever

They aren't personal insults. If you think you are 100% right on any topic, you should question your thoughts. We're here to share opinions and experience and every post should be considered as such
 
We should put this on the list of unresolvable topics. Others include:
375 too little for buff/too big for plains/perfect one gun battery
R8s suck/are the holy grail
never/always take solids
Leupold is better than/crap compared to Swaro
doubles are pointless ego guns/best tools ever

They aren't personal insults. If you think you are 100% right on any topic, you should question your thoughts. We're here to share opinions and experience and every post should be considered as such
You forgot...

PF is the devil/CRF is King.
Blued steel & wood rule/synthetic & stainless are weather resistant.

It's a long list of gripes.
 
I've been hunting upland game (pheasant and quail mostly) for about 50 years. Early on on public lands that were very crowded to private clubs. You know how many 28 ga guns I saw guys carry? ZERO. Most were 12 ga followed by the 20 ga. Kids almost always started with a .410. I started with a 20 at age 12. Yes, the 28 ga has become "popular" in the last few years. The .410 is also increasing in use among adults. This is because of great improvements in ammo. If you shoot one or two shells in a hunt, the expensive ammo doesn't add up to much. But at about $7 to $10 a round, the expensive ammo adds up quickly. Why spend $120 on ammo if you can spend $25? I will continue to use my 12 for some pheasant hunting and all waterfowl hunting. I alternate between 12 and 20 for pheasant. Even with 12 ga ammo, a lot of birds come down and run. If course, the " experts" on here will say I can't shoot. LOL. I have killed hundreds of pheasants and witnessed 100's of others. A 20 gauge is as small as I would go.
I will reiterate my original contention on why there is a "resurgence" of the 28. It's to increase gun sales. That's my honest opinion and observations. Agree or disagree but do not talk down to me for it.
This will be my last post on the subject no matter what names you call me. LOL.
 
@Ltach578 - 28GA is a nice light gauge and while very close to 20 ga performance it will Never keep up completely with a 20 gauge and especially past 25 yards… that is why NSSA skeet requires a 20 ga shooter must average 97% for a “AA” classification but a 28 ga shooter only needs 96.5% for “AA”. Very minor and part of that is because skeet targets are shot at 21 yrds or closer. So, theoretically you “lose” 1 target out of every 200 due to the smaller guage (not sure how NSSA determined that?). Some competitors shoot 20 ga in 12ga events but few will shoot a 28 ga in a 12 ga event. There will be more of a difference beyond 25-30 yrds (as is often found in Hunting & Sporting Clays) thats where the 20 guage 7/8oz of pellets (vs 3/4oz 28GA) has a bit more of an advantage. Another consideration - 28 ga cost much more per box then 20 ga - 25%+ more. Overall, the difference is slight but it’s there.
I was one of those you reference that shot 28 gauge in the 12 gauge class long ago. Back then I was still young and only about 150# and the 12 gauge for 250 or more birds was just too much.

21 yards is the center point of the field. When shooting doubles, the second bird could be past the centerpoint. Slow reaction can result in birds from stations 3 - 5 slipping past the centerpoint. Shootoffs meant shooting doubles at every station. At the center stations 3 - 5, the second bird was a real challenge and often beyond 21 yards.

A piece of shot going 1200 feet per second is exactly the same whether fired from a 12, 20, 28, or 410. The bigger gauges have more pellets, which means statistically more chances. As discussed some in this thread, the shot strings differ front to rear in length, which affects pattern density.

With a correct lead, the denser shot string of the 28 gauge provides better results than the 20 gauge and would break the bird into many pieces. The 20 has a longer string and could give a bit extra margin for a suboptimal lead, but only knock off a chip or two sometimes.

My longest runs without a miss all were shot with a 28 gauge. Back then I was shooting 1500 - 2000 rounds a week. So I had the leads burned into my brain. Misses were the result of a lag in reaction or a loss of focus.

I had the good fortune to shoot at the same club and time as Bob Brister and Jess Briley in the 70’s when they were doing their experiments pulling a trailer with a 20’ long piece of paper to study how patterns really looked on a target in motion. This work is what resulted in Jess’ pioneering work with the chokes and making the .410 produce far reliable patterns.

Bob Brister’s book Shotgunning is a very interesting read, though some of the technical info now is outdated.

When I still shoot a round now and then, a 28 is what goes to the range with me.

IMG_5930.jpeg
 
I was one of those you reference that shot 28 gauge in the 12 gauge class long ago. Back then I was still young and only about 150# and the 12 gauge for 250 or more birds was just too much.

21 yards is the center point of the field. When shooting doubles, the second bird could be past the centerpoint. Slow reaction can result in birds from stations 3 - 5 slipping past the centerpoint. Shootoffs meant shooting doubles at every station. At the center stations 3 - 5, the second bird was a real challenge and often beyond 21 yards.

A piece of shot going 1200 feet per second is exactly the same whether fired from a 12, 20, 28, or 410. The bigger gauges have more pellets, which means statistically more chances. As discussed some in this thread, the shot strings differ front to rear in length, which affects pattern density.

With a correct lead, the denser shot string of the 28 gauge provides better results than the 20 gauge and would break the bird into many pieces. The 20 has a longer string and could give a bit extra margin for a suboptimal lead, but only knock off a chip or two sometimes.

My longest runs without a miss all were shot with a 28 gauge. Back then I was shooting 1500 - 2000 rounds a week. So I had the leads burned into my brain. Misses were the result of a lag in reaction or a loss of focus.

I had the good fortune to shoot at the same club and time as Bob Brister and Jess Briley in the 70’s when they were doing their experiments pulling a trailer with a 20’ long piece of paper to study how patterns really looked on a target in motion. This work is what resulted in Jess’ pioneering work with the chokes and making the .410 produce far reliable patterns.

Bob Brister’s book Shotgunning is a very interesting read, though some of the technical info now is outdated.

When I still shoot a round now and then, a 28 is what goes to the range with me.

View attachment 702304
Dang we’re getting old. I shot in some of those same events.
 
Dang we’re getting old. I shot in some of those same events.
Yes, it seems so strange looking at those dates, which look so long ago, and yet it feels like it was just yesterday.

Good times with lots of good people and memories.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: WAB
The 16 gauge is a fine cartridge. The reson it lost popularity in many parts of the country is that the people making rules for skeet did not create a 'class' for the 16. They did for 12, 20, 28, and .410. SKEET SHOOTERS created the popularity of the modern 28 gauge. I don't have a 28... too many guns already!

I have been a 16 gauge fan since 1990 and have done what I can to reinvigorate the 16 gauge and provided loading data and freely distributed information on the 16 ga. for over 30 years now. There has been a mild resurgence among bird hunters during that time.

View attachment 701969
Lovely Fox. Period or one from CSMC?
 
Yes, it seems so strange looking at those dates, which look so long ago, and yet it feels like it was just yesterday.

Good times with lots of good people and memories.
Dang, you guys are OLD!
 
Lovely Fox. Period or one from CSMC?
Not CSMC. In fact I was building this gun when Tony was launching his version of the Fox. This is a 1915 graded gun with #4 Krupp Barrels SN #40045X. It was totally redone in 1991-92 (P Mazur, metalsmith and finisher, G. Goudy, stocker, S. Welch, engraver, W, Nittler barrel/choke regulation) and it has been my main bird gun since then. Lotta miles and many birds.
CustomFox16_5.JPG


Thank you for the compliment!
 
Not CSMC. In fact I was building this gun when Tony was launching his version of the Fox. This is a 1915 graded gun with #4 Krupp Barrels SN #40045X. It was totally redone in 1991-92 (P Mazur, metalsmith and finisher, G. Goudy, stocker, S. Welch, engraver, W, Nittler barrel/choke regulation) and it has been my main bird gun since then. Lotta miles and many birds.
View attachment 702359

Thank you for the compliment!
Magnificent. Haven't seen Mazur's work, but hard to get better than Gary Goudy and Bill Nittler. Incredible bit of timber on that gun.
 
Magnificent. Haven't seen Mazur's work, but hard to get better than Gary Goudy and Bill Nittler. Incredible bit of timber on that gun.
Thank you. These guys are so good I had their names engraved on the gun. The walnut is from Teyssier of France. Old special blank.

Gary and I have been friends and hunting partners for over 40 years. He is now retired and living in Washington State. Pete Mazur is still working, but not taking new customers.

Pete Mazur and Gary Goudy are also responsible for my Ruger No.1 that I have posted about here.
 
Last edited:

Forum statistics

Threads
62,218
Messages
1,366,433
Members
118,975
Latest member
flowersznkbjfstjep
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

Hello, My Name Is James Mark I Love you All
Gert Odendaal wrote on Buff's profile.
Did you enjoy your black powder buffalo hunt?
Any report about the hunt here on African Hunting .com?
FDP wrote on dchuntley56's profile.
I have a 30-06 that is fluted and has sights. Shot very little & I have it listed on gb, Derek
NEW ZEALAND SAFARIS wrote on Djei5's profile.
Afternoon I just received a message but cannot find the text sorry, how can I help?
csmith wrote on 19_A_CPT's profile.
Not sure your price range. Have a 375 H&H with a muzzle brake. Nice rifle only fired a few times. Also a Mossberg 375 Ruger its been used and shows a few hunts on it.
 
Top