Trophy hunting has taken a beating...

siml

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SOUTH AFRICA, BOTSWANA, NAMIBIA, ZIMBABWE, MOZAMBIQUE, ENGLAND, U.S.A
How can we as hunters/ph's/guides and outfitters help turn the tide? I would like all involved to share any ideas that could help. @johnnyblues mentioned in another post, why not get a PR firm to help.

Lets see if we can put something constructive together.
 
The problem is that the anties own the social medias, big time....wich makes it hard to get the message through...

I dont think talk will help much. What may help is getting heavy hunting organizations like SCI etc. to fund anti-poaching...talk western politicians into taking the battle to chinese politicians etc....and advertice in such way to show that hunters really are the real conservationists..
 
The problem is that the anties own the social medias, big time....wich makes it hard to get the message through...

I dont think talk will help much. What may help is getting heavy hunting organizations like SCI etc. to fund anti-poaching...talk western politicians into taking the battle to chinese politicians etc....and advertice in such way to show that hunters really are the real conservationists..

+1

Im happy to pay a membership to any organisation that promotes; conservation publicly, anti-poaching, educates people on the benefits of hunting and is actively involved in the local community to try and create a sustainable income for them through hunting.
 
Eco tourism..

Eco tourism1.jpg


I shamelessly copied this from a similar post over on another forum.

Is this really what they want..??

What a sad image...
 
The problem on social media is that everyone can easily voice an opinion without thought or knowledge in an instant and its there for the world to see. Often the people posting about issues sound as extreme as the issue they voice about.

Its easy for a topic to snowball and pick up steam, then suddenly everyone is on the band wagon and people keep their heads down to avoid the trial by internet abuse if they have an opinion that differs. This makes it very hard to stand up and voice a different opinion without being shot down with abuse. It has taken away all rational debate.

However, I think we do at times need to look at ourselves and what we do. Not all of it is perfect and we need to continue to evolve as the rest of the world around us does and stay ahead of the times.
 
Don't believe the anti's hype on social media. I willing to bet most of it is fabricated to make their numbers look bigger than the really are. This happens frequently with left wing causes on social media and I sure this latest thing with the dentist's lion was no exception.
 
Without trying to sound like Mr Negative.

I also believe we on this site are in the minority in our hunting community in the fact that we hunt abroad. I cannot speak for other countries but in the UK I would say only 30% of hunters have gone abroad, the majority being to Europe. So just because they hunt like you do, does not mean they are educated on hunting in Africa or the states. So they may have miss-placed assumptions. How do you band together a whole community that the majority of which only understand at a local level to them?
 
Simon...get a low cost film team into Moz....make a documentary about what you are trying to build from scratch....make it show what time, money and effort it takes to do it...those not too thickheaded will get the message....about who the real conservationists are..
 
@UKHunter , that's what I am asking, how can we band together, do something constructive.
 
I truly believe we as African hunters are outnumber by a super large number of anti-hunters. We have moved from a hunter-gather society to society living behind a computer screen out of touch with reality. I honestly believe no amount of education will change anyone of the anti's mind. They will always counter with how can killing some animal be a plus.
Hell even most of local hunters in the USA, could give a darn less what happens overseas.
 
@Pondoro , film crew is a great idea.
 
And the worse thing is elephants, leopards and lions, thank to Disney....are the first to be brought up on why would anyone want to kill one.
 
I was just at a friend house with some new people around. The stupid lion got talked about and started a long talk. I left some of them spout the bs they thought was right when my friend brought up I was a hunter. After about 5 minutes all have a different idea of what the truth really is.

What i did get out of it was must have a problem with animals being taken just as a trophy. They have a problem with the word trophy and it is a word that gets people mixed up. Everyone said they dont have a problem with hunting just dont like to see animals hunted and not used or just killed for sport. We need to push the fact how the meat and products help many poor people. Not only just the jobs and money hunting brings in but the whole picture. Need to show not just the pictures of the animals taken but show the pictures of the poor people taking the meat to feed there familys.

WE need to start coming across as hunters not just killers of wildlife. So many times we only give them one thing to focus on when we post stuff on facebook and the like. You never hear guys talking on there post about what good the hunt did for everyone. Talk about what money goes back to help wildlife or the locals. We all count on sci,dsc to do that job for use and not sure why. WE need to share the storys of the money we spend how it get wells dug in areas were animals have no water how because the wells get dug the land can support thousands of more animals of which a small % gets taken by hunters. So many things we can all do that would help.
 
I think a lot of people have a gross misperception of what "trophy hunting' is....they think that it's people going out, shooting a bunch of animals, cutting off the heads, and leaving the rest to rot. More importantly, they have never grown up or spent time on a farm (I'm talking in the U.S. now), so they have no perception of carrying capacity of a certain amount of land, what a "cull" is (they think chickens die of old age), etc. One of the first questions to me (from just about everybody) when I came back from Africa was "What happens to the meat?".....seems if you don't eat your kill, your a wasteful, trophy hunting bastard. I explained that we ate some of it in camp, that it was part of the land owners income (biltong), and that part of the worker's 'salaries" was payed in meat. I also told them that I would have NO qualms about bringing the meat back to the states, irregardless of cost, but that the USDA were the folks that weren't going to let that happen......not me or my pocket book!
Further, most people's conception of Africa is dark skinned natives walking around half naked in grass skirts, living in mud huts with palm fronds for a roof. I'm sure if I showed them a photo of Johannesburg, they would identify it as "Cleveland".:rolleyes: I'm sure if I asked them where Port Elizabeth is, they would say England.
The general population has to be shown not only that the money taken it goes to benefit wild animal populations as a whole, and that the deaths of a few animals is much, much better than the deaths of thousands......I've told people if they don't believe me, google "Kenyan elephants" and see if I don't speak the truth. People don't realize that Africa has been divided up into farms, much the same as the U.S., and that there aren't billions of acres for the animal population to "run free" as the movies seem to portray.
One other problem is that the general population has come to associate "hunter" and "poacher" as the same.........we need to make it VERY clear that they are NOT one in the same, and as a matter of fact are at opposite ends of the spectrum!!! The idea of hunter=poacher is purposely manipulated by the 'news' media; look at the photo of the oil man in the National Geographic photo....it said all his trophies were "poached".....so was "Cecil the friendly lion".......consequently, we are all bad guys.
The main problem, as I see it, is not what the message should be, but how to get it out there............you can forget lame stream media such as CNN, BBC, ABC, NBC, CBS, Newsweek, Time, et al;they are no longer about journalism, but manipulation and entertainment. I don't know how to get the information out there so that the uninformed should be "forced" to watch (as they would be forced to watch a piece on a news report).
I also have to say that there are a lot of negative videos on Youtube and other social media showing hunting in a not-to-positive light: Hunters wounding animals and not following up, taking shots too far and wounding animals, filming animals as they hop or flop around on the ground instead of finishing them off, shooting deer off of bait piles, etc. While all of these things happen, it's the blaring heavy metal music and laughter that puts a negative connotation to the whole thing......and then all hunts are painted with that broad brush.

But if there is ONE THING that I would like to see, it's an add campaign that shows what hunter's monies have done over the years: the reintroduction of black buck antelope to India because of them being bred on "canned hunting" operations in Texas, the return of wood duck populations because of hunters build and placing wood duck nesting boxes (when did PETA ever build a wood duck box, or a mallard tube....or any thing for wildlife), the return of the American alligator from the brink of extinction. The increase in non game species, such as song birds, egrets, various reptiles, etc. because the money from hunting and fishing licenses went to help maintain those properties......when was the last time a mountain biker, bird watcher, or anyone else had to pay to pursue their "sport" on state or federal land? Never!!! Because sportsmen and women are the ones who've footed the bill for all this time!
.....but what then needs to be done is to show how much money PETA and their ilk have taken in, in the name of "saving wildlife", and then show how much of it has actually gone to save habitat, reintroduce species, work with indigenous peoples to show them how to live with difficult species, etc.

.....I guess, in short, We need to "toot our own horn" while at the same time exposing that the monies donated to the animal rights individuals is only used to fund lawsuits, and not help the animals themselves!!!!

.....and if anyone you talk to about hunting has a pet, you need to tell them to go to PETAs website and see what they say about pet ownership:
"
We at PETA very much love the animal companions who share our homes, but we believe that it would have been in the animals’ best interests if the institution of “pet keeping”—i.e., breeding animals to be kept and regarded as “pets”—never existed. The international pastime of domesticating animals has created an overpopulation crisis; as a result, millions of unwanted animals are destroyed every year as “surplus.”


This selfish desire to possess animals and receive love from them causes immeasurable suffering, which results from manipulating their breeding, selling or giving them away casually, and depriving them of the opportunity to engage in their natural behavior. They are restricted to human homes, where they must obey commands and can only eat, drink, and even urinate when humans allow them to.

Because domesticated animals retain many of their basic instincts and drives but are not able to survive on their own in the wild, dogs, cats, or birds, whose strongest desire is to be free, must be confined to houses, yards, or cages for their own safety.


So, in other words, if you train your dog to not pee in the house (i.e. house breaking), you are causing your dog to suffer........................if they don't see that and think "loony", well:rolleyes:

Sorry..........starting to ramble; better quit now while I'm ahead.
 
TMS,

If you start a kick starter campaign, or similar to raise funds for the making of a movie that fairly represents hunters, hunting and its benefits then I will gladly donate. I don't mean to put you on the spot, but if you are up for doing it I will gladly help fund it as i'm sure others would.

Very good idea, Pondoro.

The next stage would be what outlets are used to present it to the general public.
 
Simon I agree,at some stage Outfitters/PH's and hunters will need a good PR company to help them clarify the exact contribution hunting in general and trophy hunting contributes to conservation. I would have thought that is what SCI,DSC and all the PH associations are for,but clearly it's not.

We may all feel it's bad for the industry and Blood Lions will make it worse,I have no doubt about that. Yet I also see the other side of the coin. I will use SA as a example as I cannot speak about Zim,Mos,Zam or any other country I don't have much experiance with.
SA has become a Outfitter/PH breeding ground,I think I won't be to far off if I say 1000+ new PH's get pushed through the system each year,many go on to become Outfitters. I don't have the figures,but I would figure maybe 10-20% of these Outfitters actually own their own property or have sole concessions and money invested in lodges and or animals. The rest run a "Bakkie Outfit" which is not always a bad thing,but does lead to unhealthy competition. The "cake" is getting smaller and smaller every year and folks are trying to make a living with less hunting days and clients,you will understand their pressure to deliver,especially if it pays the bills.

What I am getting at (sorry it takes a while) is that many Outfitters/PH are responsible for the bad publicity the Industry gets. Canned or illegal hunting will always be a crap way to put the spotlight on hunting. I am sure there will be a down swing in clients to SA and the rest of Africa next year with the bad publicity,but it may just be what is needed to clear the industry of folks whose hearts are closer to their wallets than it is to hunting.
 
As someone who just came in from the outside, I feel like there are several things working against hunters as a whole. First of all, the hunting community in my personal opinion is stagnated by some of the outdated code of ethics taught in hunter's education. For example, "Don't talk about your hunts in detail in front of non-hunters." Who cares? If the non-hunters say something, that's an opportunity to educate someone about the benefits of hunting. I feel like hunters and hunting haven't tried to reach out and modernize their culture. Hate him or love him, Cameron Hanes is a modernized version of a hunter that puts some shine on the image. He promotes healthy lifestyles, pimps tons of flashy products, and tries to reach out on various forms of social media to connect with younger audiences. I am not saying he is a perfect example of what modernized hunters need to be but he breaks the classic mold. I think the average person has an idea of a person sitting in a deer stand, drinking a 30-rack, and blasting away at forest creatures. It's all about perception.

Hunting culture is also treated like an exclusive club and is semi unwelcoming. I recently found out my barber is a veteran turkey hunter and inquired if he would be willing to take me turkey hunting with him. The guy acted like my request was akin to asking permission to sleep with his wife. Hunters are a small community, we should be working on being inclusive and welcoming to teach new hunters, which leads me to another point: learning about hunting requires serious effort and if you aren't dedicated to learning or don't have a good teacher, it can be a serious pain.

You go to get books on hunting in any book store and you find all the hunting books have been relegated to the back of the store and given maybe one or two small shelves. Then how do you know if the information is good or not? Hunter's Education honestly felt like a massive waste of time for me. I learned a few facts about hunting, some stats, but everything else relevant to actually learning how to hunt was wasted. I took the skills class and spent four hours learning how to operate different guns (something I learned when I was 12), cross a fence, and secure a deer stand? What was the point? How about survival skills? A real course where you have to spend a day and a night in the woods as a class. How about teaching real stalking techniques? How about practical shooting? I guess technically you can pay for outside training, but that's not the point. What about dressing and caring for your kill? I took anatomy in high school and have watched a bunch of videos on dressing and animal, so when the time comes for my first hunt this season I will be in a good position when my friend helps me dress my first deer. I was lucky enough to have been a Boy Scout, had parents that loved the woods, grew up at the foot of the Rockies, and learned to shoot from a young age. However, the average young person these days does not have that life and they sit on the Internet all day being disconnected. So where do they go if they decide they are interested in hunting? Cable or YouTube.

Aside from Jim Shockey's Uncharted and maybe Solo Hunter, I haven't seen one show I felt captured what it means to hunt. The shows are 90% white-tail hunts, almost always from a blind or deer stand, and they always show a successful kill. This only solidifies the idea that killing deer is as easy as pulling a trigger. I am not trying to say hunting from a blind or tree stand is not a legitimate way to hunt, but again we are talking about public perception. The average person couldn't hike 6 miles into the backwoods, up to 10,000 plus feet to Timberline, sleep in the woods for 3 days, stalk and successfully kill an animal. It takes serious practice and a serious set of learned skills, but that's not what sells the majority of air time.

Understandably I know that not everyone can be a hunter, but we need to need to be more accessible and vocal in the public domain instead of acting like we are a special class of people who you must come to us and be found wanting.

Edit: If people here decide to work on a hunting project to benefit our community I will be more than happy to help.
 

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