Mid-bore Shootout 338wm vs 375HH

I enjoy testing and planning and thinking about my hunts for months prior to the actual hunting. I suppose this is my way of wringing out as much enjoyment as I can from my limited hunting time and budget. This fall, I am going to Canada on a combined Moose and Elk hunt and am playing with a number of rifles prior to locking in two for the trip. I plan to take a typical heavy deer rifle such as a 7mm Mag or a 30-06 set up for longer shooting out to about 400y and then I will also take a midbore either my 338wm or my 375HH optimized for shooting out to about 300y. I plan to hunt with the midbore but wanted to have options if we find that we are having a hard time getting inside of my 300y limit. I have never been to this locale but am told that a lot of it is open river valley with some tree cover. My desire is to stalk to within 200y but am totally comfortable out to 300y with all of these rifles and am capable of further shots with some of them.

I have hunted with all of these and have killed deer sized and larger game with most of them. Only the 30-06 remains un-blooded. It is pretty obvious that all of these rifles can kill Moose or Elk and that is not the question. I am still mulling over my latest range data and am not going to claim any special knowledge regarding the to midbores under consideration and would love to get your comments or advice prior to my hunt in early October. Meet the candidates:

Sako 85, 338wm with Arken EP-8 1-8x optic. I thought I had totally settled on the 338wm for this hunt. It shoots the 225g Barnes TSX (2863fps ave) to 1" at 100y. And the 200g Federal Trophy Bonded Tip (2936fps ave) to 3/4". Both of these factory loads produce single digit SD's and are enough to do the job. The little Arken scope is not a long range optic but it has a FFP reticle and a tiny little aiming dot in the center of the reticle that enables very precise aiming if time and conditions allow which lets it punch well above its weight class on longer shots. I have used an identical scope in Africa to take a Blk WB at over 300y. The glass is on par with scopes costing 10x its price and it holds up well to the magnum recoil. I can shoot out to 400 with that optic but that is getting out of its optimal window. I would call this rifle my default first choice.

FN Browning Safari Grade 375HH with Swarovski Z6i 1-6x with Duplex reticle. I took this rifle to Africa on my first Safari and have never hunted with it since. It is set up for dangerous game and the Swaro is NOT a long range scope. The aiming dot in the center of the 2FP reticle is huge and covers a 3" aiming sticker on a 100y target. This makes precise aiming less precise but does enable very quick adequate target acquisition in the field and the glass is about as good as it gets. This rifle was zeroed at 100y for the Barnes 300g TSX and shoots 1/2" - 3/4" with that load (2564fps ave). But, for the wide open Canada hunt, I wanted something faster, flatter and did not feel it necessary to use the big heavy 300's for Moose or Elk. I have some 250g TBBC ammo from Federal (2690fps ave) that might be good but the one time I used them on deer, the wound looked like it penciled thru with little or no expansion. That bullet was optimized for big boned thick skinned game and I do not trust it - yet. So, the load I am considering for this hunt is the Double Tap ammo loaded with a 235g Barnes TSX. They claim 3100fps but in my 24" bbl the actual chrono'ed speed is 2913fps ave. It is not a tack driver but did produce a 2" group at 100y and about 4" at 200y. It shoots 1mil high at 100y and 2" high at 200y which is about a 275y zero. After 275y, it begins to drop like a stone and at 300y is hitting about 4" below the POA. At 300y it is still going 2128fps which is more than enough to travel thru a Moose me thinks. This load is faster than the fastest 225g load for my 338 and about equal in speed to the fastest 200g load for my 338. So, it is bigger, faster, heavier but not as accurate. But, accurate enough to hit the KZ on a Moose or Elk out to 300y. I am not going to go swapping scopes around and the Swarovski optic on this rifle is NOT the best choice for this hunt. The reticle is optimized for close range and the turrets adjustment is coarse at best. one click at 100y is 1.5cm (0.6"). My first shots at 200y were about 2" high so I dialed it down one click and the shot was zeroed at 200y. I was trying to be 1" high at 200 but ended up leaving it at 2" high so it would not fall off so fast at 300y. In this application the Arken is the better scope, I am sad to say.

So, in summary the 375HH with the light fast 235g loading is a legit 300y rifle that should hit like a hammer. It gives up some precision but is accurate enough and is trucking along at 2128fps at 300y. This gives it 2384 ft-lbs energy at 300y. Great right? While the scope is not optimal, it is a great scope with many good features and able to meet the need out to 300y.

Looking at the 338wm one more time, the 225g Barnes TTSX loads are a boat tail tipped load that has a better BC than the fat stubby 375. This helps the 338 to maintain its velocity out further. At 300y, it is still going 2348fps. This turns out to translate to 2754 ft-lbs energy at 300y. Whaaat? So, the 338 possesses a decisive energy advantage at my self imposed 300y range limit over the bigger, badder 375HH. That was an eye opener. The old standby 300g TSX load is potent enough but it dropped more at 300y and at that distance has even less energy than the lighter faster load and honestly past about 200 or 250y it's speed had dropped below 2000fps which is my limit for copper mono bullets just to insure that they will expand properly. The point being that the 338 out performs the 375 at longer ranges.

What started out as my seriously considering taking the 375HH as my Moose hunter midbore, has turned a 180 and I am back to the conclusion that my 338wm loaded with the 225g Barnes TTSX BT Bullets is the answer to my question.

Stay tuned - Next time we will break down the 7mm RM vs the 30-06 for Elk and Moose. Since we will be hunting African style and will be riding in a 4x4 glassing for game at a distance and once located will dismount and stalk on foot, I will have the luxury of taking two rifles with the 2nd being optimzed for longer range open terrain shooting. The two under consideration are the 7mm RM and the 30-06. Both shoot very well and both can easily hit 12" steel at 400y.

338 I the correct rifle for the job.

Myself a 338 WM is the perfect rifle for North America !
Back in the early 80's had a Gentry build me a custom Model 70 pre-64 built at the time it was the only rifle I owned, for several years. Proceeded to harvest every animal that lived in North America except a polar bear many several times over. with the rifle. It's just a great caliber not to big and not to small just right for everything. I'am not a proponent of long range shooting 200 yards and under is where I want a animal before i pull the trigger.
I'am not a proponent of the 375 H&H I've owned a few but never could find much use for it. Haven't owned one in years.

From 1987 to 2022, my only hunting rifle was a .338 Win. Mag. Used it on everything from prairie dogs to grizzly. Never failed to do the job. After that I just wanted to play with a few others for no reason other than curiosity. You made a good choice for the hunt!

338WM will kill at 400 yards, great gun for Elk & Moose

I too spend an incredible amount of time thinking about and preparing for a hunt. That said, I think I spent more time reading your post than I do thinking what gun to bring. I’m a slow reader.
Anyways, take each of your several rifles out somewhere you can shoot 300 yards. Set up an 8-10 inch target. Pretend that you’ve just dismounted a 4 wheeler, find a tree to take a rest aim from and take a single shot at 300 yards with each rifle 3 times. Giving yourself a par time of 15 seconds from your seated position to the shot. 15 seconds is generous but it is a place to start.
After adding up the times and looking at the target I’d take whichever rifle I produced the best hits on target in the least amount of time.
I’ve killed and seen killed extremely large Alaskan moose with a .270 WSM shooting 160 grain Nosler Partitions so all your options will readily do the same.
Good luck!

My 2 cents, I consider your 338 Winchester with the 225 TTSX near perfect for 300 yards and under, for whitetail size through moose. Bison, and the giant big bears in brush would be the only 2 things native to North America that I would give a second thought about. And they are certainly cleanly killed with less.

I like my larger medium bores, but would grab one of my 338 Winchesters with the 225 TTSX with complete confidence.

Sounds like you have 4 very capable rifles. You can choose a pair of rifles or just flip a coin. Whichever combo you take will do the job!

.338 leave the others at home. 2 rifles = twice the hassles.

Just as a shout out to BobNelson35whelen, recommending the 338 is equivalent to recommending the 35 Whelen HANDLOADED TO BOB'S SPECS....no?

Some of the 270 grain 375 bullets have good BC but for range matching the 338s you need to go with the 375 ultra. To match the trajectory of the 7 and 300 mags you need to go to the 378 wby. Too much gun for many.

coyote wacker said:

Myself a 338 WM is the perfect rifle for North America !
It's just a great caliber not to big and not to small just right for everything. I'am not a proponent of long range shooting 200 yards and under is where I want a animal before i pull the trigger.

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200y and under is my 1st choice as well. Until last year in Africa, I had never fired on a game animal at a range longer than 202y by choice. Sure, I had killed prairie dogs and coyotes further but they do not count. Last year, I was forced to take shots at 243, 280, and 314y in Free State simply because it was wide open terrain and every time we approached a herd the many eyes would bust us and off they went. The only reason, I am prepping for this hunt to plan for taking shots out to 300 or 400y is because the guide said some of the terrain is very open. I am confident with my 338 out to 300y but still prefer closer if possible.

I have only hunted once with my 338 and that was a Texas Nilgai this past winter. That shot was 155y with a 225g TTSX BT and was a bang/flop result. Very impressive. I also took a coyote one morning with the 200g Trophy Bonded ammo and it was equally impressive at about 200y. In most ways, I think it is more potent on game than the 375 but need a few more data points to be confident in that claim. It reminds me of the competition between small fast bullets vs big slow bullets and which kills better. Clearly the Big-Fast bullet is the best of the lot, lol. Below are pics of my Sako85 in 338wm.

steve white said:

Just as a shout out to BobNelson35whelen, recommending the 338 is equivalent to recommending the 35 Whelen HANDLOADED TO BOB'S SPECS....no?

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The 35W is one of those sweet spot cartridges that seems to get the most out of what it has to offer. I have always been baffled by why so few ammo makers choose to make ammo for it. And I refuse to reload for hunting rifles since I shoot so few shots each year with them. In recent years I have acquired many more rifles than I once had and that only makes reloading more problematic since I do not own a one-gun favorite. I would love to own a nice 35W but before I would buy one, I think I would rather get the 9.3x62 in a Husqvarna format.

For this Moose hunt however, I have too many viable choices already and am limiting my choice to those rifles already in hand. For reference my two other hunting buddies who are going on this trip are both taking 300wm rifles and nobody can argue with that choice.

Or… 270 Grain or 250 grain 375 @2650 fps loaded with a Barnes LRX or TTSX.
100 yard zero.

270 grain LRX
Range Drop Energy Velocity
300 -15.34 2617 2089

Or a Barnes 250 gain TTSX
Range Drop Energy Velocity
300 -15.61 2352 2058

Picking lightest bullet for caliber and then comparing to a mid weight bullet in another caliber skews the numbers.
Same as comparing bullet drop of two different calibers, but one has a 100 yard zero, the other a 200 yard zero. Not a true comparison but ammo companies do it all the time.

IDK, ….. any ‘mid-bore’ shootout that fails to include one of the most-awesome .35-cals just, …well, fails.

Specifically the .35 Whelen, the .350 Remington Magnum, or the .358 Norma Magnum.

‘Course, having a rifle in one of those chamberings for said shootout would help.

Since you don't reload for your hunting rounds. I would take the 338 and go hunt.

If you were handloading I would recommend developing a load for your 375 with 260gr nosler accubonds

338 win mag that is what I am taking this year for an elk hunt in Montana

FWIW
from my reload file. My starting point is always OBT but I bumped up the 338 to the same PSI
as the 375. Same 200yd zero, Nosler Partitions, barrel length and rifle weight.
Coincidently, muzzle velocity came out the same...
PBR is the same for both and the PBR velocity almost the same (375hh lags behind due
to the smaller BC) and the 375 has a slight energy edge given the larger weight.
375 more recoil but penetration the same at 200yd.
So, given this is a figment of my computer's imagination...
comes down feeling about heavier bullet and diameter?

Two great diameter bullets!

I've had a great deal of success with the .338 Win & 340 WM. Love them both and suspect the .375's can do a lot in North America with the right bullets too.

Pick your rifle study it trajectory and you will have good luck with any of your calibers