I used to really hate the .308

I've been thinking of posting here more, instead of just reading and commenting from time to time. Seems selfish to just hang in the shadows. So here's a post about my change in thinking and a new project.

I used to hate the 308. Not for any good reason really, just emotional. I disliked it like @Bob Nelson 35Whelen hates the .243. When I was a kid, all my reading material was books checked out from the library or purchased at the "friends of the library" sale. Needless to say, in both cases any books I could find on hunting were old. Those old books taught me about the classic safari cartridges, among those was the 30-06. Robert Ruark, Jack O'Connor, Hemmingway, myriads of others carried an 06. The only thing I knew about the .308 was that it was newer, was developed in part for NATO as the 7.62, and the only person I knew who liked it was an old Vietnam War vet at my local gun shop who said it was all he would ever shoot. I thought of it as a "Fudd" cartridge for people that just blasted away at anything and everything.

Fast forward 30 years and to my first trip to Africa in March. Africa taught me to "unlearn" what I knew about precision. It taught me that its OK to squeeze the trigger when the reticle is moving around some, that 1/2" MOA is not necessary, that its OK to remove a scope to use irons and then put the scope back and trust it to be back to good hunting accuracy, and mainly not to let perfect be the enemy of good. It taught me the value of a working rifle that can adapt to the shooters needs and be a useful tool all year, not just in season.

Modern precision rifles are nice. They are light, suppressor ready, accessory ready, and accurate. But I started thinking of a way I could marry my old precision mindset to my new Africa mindset. I wanted a classic rifle that I could also run with a bipod or tripod, that I could suppress when I wanted and not suppress when I didn't. that I could set up with a red dot for fast predator control and as a truck gun all year, but also scope during hunts. It needed to be something that was reasonably good in a short barrel, not just to maintain decent velocity but mostly so that I didn't blow my eardrums out shooting it bare. It also needed to be a cartridge that I could find easily in Africa. I almost lost my ammo on my first trip, so I went from not really thinking that was a real issue to realizing that it WAS a real issue for traveling hunters.

I ran across a good deal on an M70 featherweight in .308. With my new criteria and mindset, I realized why it's so popular. I had a gunsmith cut the barrel down to get good threads and shoulder with my suppressor. No instruction on length, just needed to be in the meat of the barrel for a good attachment. I think he ended up just under 17" to make that happen with the thin barrel profile. He cerakoted the barrel and action, not because I asked for it but because he damaged the bluing while working on it. Fine with me. I filed a flat spot and attached a short pic rail to the underside. I had a Warne rail that happened to fit, had a red dot I don't use (not a fan on a pistol it turns out) and an Accupoint scope with no home. I purchased some low quick release rings and a cheap Chinese made thread protector.

Today was the first time really shooting it. I shot it bare, suppressed, with red dot, with scope. It's a 1" gun with both 168 ELDM Hornady Black ammo, as well as Swift A-Frame 165s, both factory loaded. It even shoots both to the exact point of impact at 100 yards.

I can't wait to hunt it this season. I might take it with me in September for baboon with @Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS.

I may not be an old dog, but I am learning some new tricks and it's been fun. I can finally appreciate the .308 for what it is. Who cares what the case stamp says? All that matters is the bullet. How is it built, how fast is it going, and what I expect to do with it. View attachment 779456
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We can all hate the Creedmor together.
 
I was always the same way about the 308, but I've recently gotten the urge to buy one. I've found a threaded Howa that I'm looking at.

I did shoot a kudu in Eastern Cape with a PH'S suppressed 308 in an old FN Mauser action and was a little impressed.

That being said, the 06 will always be king with me!
 
Took a Tikka 308 with 150gr Barnes X bullets on my first Safari and one shot kills on everything.

My next Safari in Namibia I'll take a 30-06 for PG with 165gr X bullets for the PG and small stuff and 450 Rigby for the big stuff

Depending on load and distance, you could take the difference between the 308 and 30-06, roll it up and poke yourself in the eye with it and not feel a thing.
 
We can all hate the Creedmor together.
I still haven't figured out why the Creedmoor Is different from the .260 Remington. Not that I have any great desire to own either one. I was thinking that one of those might be a good first deer rifle for my grandson.
 
What unit or concession/ area of Zim did you just hunt?
This last hunt was in the Omay, it was a 10 day hunt. I ended up taking tuskless and land based hippo, lots of hippo in that area. Earlier this year I was in the process of looking up Ranchero Safaris, saw they had a camp in the Matetsi area, while working on that possibility I came across an elephant/buffalo hunt in Mozambique, so that's where I'll be going next year.

Will you be flying into Victoria Falls? If so, and if you have the time, ask your guide/outfitter to take you to the Victoria Hotel and eat lunch out on their patio. I've done that a number of times, you just have to see that view to believe it.

I have a Pelican 1750 double gun case, on some hunts I have taken my .308 and my .375H&H, taking 2 guns in not any more difficult than taking one. That way you're covered for whatever it is you decide to pursue.

I wish you great success on your baboon cull hunt this fall then on your hunt to Zimbabwe next year.
 
Have had more than a few of each over the years… 308s and 30-06s. The monolithics change the calculus a little when comparing them. Comparing similar bullets in each caliber, I’ve always thought of the 308 as the queen of the 30 cal 150ish grain shooters and the 30-06 the queen of the 30 cal 180ish grain shooters. COALs, action lengths, bore twist rates and bullet materials/designs all combine to sometimes blur the lines between the two popular 30 cals. Anecdotally, one of the most accurate “sporter” rifles I ever owned was a blueprinted Rem 700 action, 308 with 24” #5 Krieger barrel in an HS Precision sporter stock.
 
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I still haven't figured out why the Creedmoor Is different from the .260 Remington. Not that I have any great desire to own either one. I was thinking that one of those might be a good first deer rifle for my grandson.
The 260 Remington SAAMI spec for twist rate was too slow, could only shoot light or medium weight bullets, and didn’t have a long enough throat to seat high BC bullets out properly.

You can do a custom 260 Remington that fixes all of those issues, but then it’s no longer a gun for the masses.

In terms of knockdown power, it’s almost identical to a modern pressure 6.5x55, or 260 Remington. Not exact but flip a coin and the animal won’t know the difference.
 
The 260 Remington SAAMI spec for twist rate was too slow, could only shoot light or medium weight bullets, and didn’t have a long enough throat to seat high BC bullets out properly.

You can do a custom 260 Remington that fixes all of those issues, but then it’s no longer a gun for the masses.

In terms of knockdown power, it’s almost identical to a modern pressure 6.5x55, or 260 Remington. Not exact but flip a coin and the animal won’t know the difference.
Now I got it. Thanks.
 
I still haven't figured out why the Creedmoor Is different from the .260 Remington. Not that I have any great desire to own either one. I was thinking that one of those might be a good first deer rifle for my grandson.
Barrel twist and modern heavier bullets
 
You have an interesting set up right there, a RMR on a picatinny, as well as a scope. How do you intend to zero in if the plan is to switch while on a hunt?
With a proper mount for each, repeated placement in the correct slots and torqued the same, zero will easily be retained/repeatable.
 
I have several 308s that I like and use a short, ultralight suppressor (Browning X-Bolt Maple Hunter cut to 20"; Tikka T3x cut to 18.5"; Rem 660 20"). With my 165gr hand-loads, the Browning, Kimber, and Rem run 2700-2750; each gun is a bit different. All are very accurate, especially with their favorite recipes. The 18.5" Tikka runs 50-75fps slower that the other rifles.

I've had several 30-06s over the years. My favorite was a Rem 700 CDL that I pillar bedded, cut to 21", and added a Trigger Tech trigger. Its favorite recipe is 168gr TTSX running 2725 fps. ****My 5' tall, 105 lb daughter shot a nice waterbuck with it last year and fell in love, so I cut the stock to fit her and now its hers. This year she killed a Kudu, Wildebeest, Zebra, and a Bushbuck; she and that gun (suppressed) are a match made in heaven****

Years ago, I realized that, within the same caliber, the cartridge was simply the launching "rocket"...nothing more. When looking at my 30-06s and 308s, using bullets under 180gr, and using similar barrel lengths, the terminal performance was a difference without a distinction.

In my experience, when launching 2 bullets of adequate weight and construction at adequate speed, the difference of 100fps means nothing to me - or the animal; shot placement is, as in all situations, -regardless of the cartridge - the key to success.

Personally, I like running my suppressors, and don't want a 30" pipe, so keeping my barrels under 22".

I shoot at what I call "normal hunting distances" and for me, that's about 350 and closer. I've never had the need to shoot further and 95% of my shots have been under 300...most between 100-200. If my shots were routinely 350 - 500, my main gun would't be a 308 or an '06 :).

I think the versatility of the '06 shines when using 180-200 gr bullets, both of which cut into the powder capacity of the 308 case. But, I haven't found the need to shoot 180s or 200s as 165s seem to work for everything I need.

Some would argue that the great thing about the '06 over the 308 is that its a cartridge one can use on all NA game, including the big bears. However, if I was hunting the big bears, I don't just want a "killing" gun, I want a "stopping" gun and the 375 would be my medicine.
 
I'm 100% with you .... a 7mm-08 and or a 7mm WSM is already on my "next to buy" list!
I like the 7's. I can't tell you anything about the WSM but I have killed more blacktails, mulies and a couple of pronghorns with a 7 Rem Mag than anything else. The one blacktail that I shot with the 7-08 died immediately. I haven't taken one to Africa though. .30-06 first and .then 300 Win Mag. Heavier bullets.
 
With a proper mount for each, repeated placement in the correct slots and torqued the same, zero will easily be retained/repeatable.
Agree, however it is little inconvenient to do in the field while hunting. Not impossible.
 
I am in the group that always thought the 30 06 was king. It seemed as far as you could go until stepping into magnum territory which I also did. My experience with the .308 came by accident. I stumbled on an 88 Winchester in some gunshop and to have it. I loaded with 150 gr bullets to get the velocity and trajectory without going to 180s. Mid range loads of course to not beat the Lever action to death. It was a great cartridge and great gun which I enjoyed. Later I got a NM M1A and of course it was 308. (pre Creedmoor days) I enjoyed and hunted with it quite a lot. But always felt better with a bolt action 30 06. It seemed to me bigger was better and could be loaded down for anything the 308 would do. I recently pick up a Browning Sako Safari in a beautiful custom stock. 308 again. It will be great to hunt with on sunny days. Nothing wrong with 308 cartridge at all. Just not a cartridge I would reach for when the 30 06 is there. Doesn't cost any more and has an edge if distance is a little farther than expected. Enjoy and good luck on Safari!
 
Agree, however it is little inconvenient to do in the field while hunting. Not impossible.
Wouldn’t even consider it in the field. That is completely avoidable by just running a magnified optic with a red dot mounted on the top of a scope ring or in a separate ring around the scope tube if you’ve got enough room.
 
I don't hate the 308. I just tend to use the 7-08.

The 308 intellectually wins, but I've always thought the 30-06 was the king and the 7-08 was different and on paper, better. But from a real world perspective, not a lot of difference under 300 yards
 
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I am in the group that always thought the 30 06 was king. It seemed as far as you could go until stepping into magnum territory which I also did. My experience with the .308 came by accident. I stumbled on an 88 Winchester in some gunshop and to have it. I loaded with 150 gr bullets to get the velocity and trajectory without going to 180s. Mid range loads of course to not beat the Lever action to death. It was a great cartridge and great gun which I enjoyed. Later I got a NM M1A and of course it was 308. (pre Creedmoor days) I enjoyed and hunted with it quite a lot. But always felt better with a bolt action 30 06. It seemed to me bigger was better and could be loaded down for anything the 308 would do. I recently pick up a Browning Sako Safari in a beautiful custom stock. 308 again. It will be great to hunt with on sunny days. Nothing wrong with 308 cartridge at all. Just not a cartridge I would reach for when the 30 06 is there. Doesn't cost any more and has an edge if distance is a little farther than expected. Enjoy and good luck on Safari!
Your post brought back memories. I had an uncle and then cousin that killed many blacktail bucks at the deer camp in Northern California with a Matel 88 in .308. Worked pretty well for them.
 
I don't hate the 308. I just tend to use the 7-08.

The 308 intellectually wins, but I've always thought the 30-06 was the king and the 7-08 was different and on paper, better. But from a real world perspective, not a lot of difference under 300 yards
Well said. Oddly enough, I’ve always loved the 7mm-08 and if it was more common in Africa I would have gone this direction instead.
 

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