35 Whelen recoil and terminal performance?

My 35 Whelen (225gr in a Foundation Gideon), 300H&H (180gr in a McMillan Game Warden) and 7PRC (175gr in a Manners PH) all feel about the same. 300PRC (200gr in a Manners PH) is definitely more felt recoil. All highish velocity loads.

My two sons and I have taken a 35 Whelen to Africa. Several times in fact. My Whelen is a repurposed '03-A3 with a laminated Boyds stock. It is a bit heavier than either of my sons' rifles, but it mitigates the recoil. All three rifles like the 225 Gr. Barnes bullets. The 200 Gr Factory SST(s) are a lot faster, but the recoil is more than what I like. I did use mine on an Eland. We took 18 animals between us most went down in less than 40 yards. Six or seven dropped where they stood.

Both of his current rifles are plenty capable for Eland. My brother was able to take his with his 270 and 150 TSX no issues at all. I'm in the accuracy before energy camp, especially with modern projectiles.

I would have him use either of the rifles he already shoots. With the right bullet placed in the kill zone, he will have a dead eland. I have a 24" 30-06, 20" 35 Whelen and 26" 300 Win Mag barrels for my TC Encore. According to my highly sensitive repairedx2 shoulder/fused neck recoil meters, the 35 Whelen with 250gr bullets kicks slightly more than the 30-06 and the 300 Win Mag with 180gr bullets kicks considerably more than both. Really good recoil pads do wonders to tame recoil as well.

Safe shooting and good luck on y'all's hunt.

If you decide you need a magnum. I’ll ship you a pre 64 model 70 300 H&H for him to try out. If he shoots it well. He can borrow it.

i used a .375 H&H on the one eland i shot and some 60 odd other animals on six hunts in africa, mainly to avoid a animal wounded and lost. i think a 35 whelen with the right bullets would have done just as good a job. i didn,t get any shots over 125 yards and most under that as the bush was very thick.

Although I always look for an excuse to purchase a new rifle and consider the .35 Whelen a prize, your son is already proficient with the 7PRC and the .30/06. The .30/06 with a 200gr bullet like the Swift will be in the same velocity vicinity as the Whelen and as long as placement is good, should take any PG.

Altitude sickness said:

If you decide you need a magnum. I’ll ship you a pre 64 model 70 300 H&H for him to try out. If he shoots it well. He can borrow it. View attachment 772300View attachment 772301

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You are too kind! I would be paranoid of damaging that beauty. I have been looking for an excuse I could use on the wife to get one of those

Your son's current rifles are fine for eland.

A friend's wife regularly takes eland with her 7mm-08.with 140 grain mono bullets.

Shot placement and bullet select are a heck of a lot more important than cartridge, within reason. The 7rem mag with a heavier bullet would be quite effective. I personally think that the 375 is overkill for eland. A shot in the heart or lungs will kill them regardless of the caliber.

However, the 35 Whelen would also be a nice choice and might be a good middle ground between what you have and what the PH prefers.

While I try to respect PHs, many seem to recommend cartridges based on older thoughts at times. They also recommended things based on all the bad shooters they see, etc.

But most of all, enjoy the adventure with your son.

channelkat said:

Caprivi, but unfortunately not until next July, so it may not be an issue by then. I am just not interested in bumping up his recoil until at least after this hunting season. Figured I would use this time to game plan.

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Caprivi himmm I’d take the 357h&h then at least if you run into any DG you have enough gun.
Edit: sorry just re read your posts it’s for your son

roklok said:

So many variables with felt recoil, but when I plug the numbers into a recoil calculator comparing 300 with 180s at 3000 and a 35 Whelen with 250s at 2550, the Whelen shows a bit more recoil with like rifles, which more or less matches my experience. My favorite 35 Whelen has a narrow butt, and is no slouch in the felt recoil department.

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“So many variables” is right. My rifle for DG, like Buff, is my 10.2lb AHR .404 with a 23” Douglas tube.

But for PG, and generally anything else on the menu that’s not DG, my ‘light’ rifle for Africa is an old school Remmy model 660, chambered in .350 Rem Mag. Ballistically, it’s the twin of the .35 Whelen. In fact, my 250grn handload is right there @ 2500fps with a spitzer SP.

But unlike any .35 Whelen I’ve seen, the 660 does that with a 20” barrel. Unloaded weight - with sling, stock pack, scope, rings, and mount - is all of 8.2lbs. Go irons only and the scale drops to about 7.5lbs.



A couple of cheats: we did replace the flimsy factory plastic trigger guard with a metal unit (so yeah, that added a tad of weight), and we noticeably reduced felt-recoil by ditching the factory butt pad for a KickEzz pad (perfectly fitted for the same LOP as factory).



For a safari with a menu of multiple non-DG game, say, 6 to 8 species including large ungulates, I’m not worried about felt-recoil over the course of harvesting those. In the field the 660 carries extremely well - better, in fact, than my Lon Paul custom 22” BRNO 602 in .375 H&H, 9.9lbs scoped; yet it will down any non-DG critter as hard as the BRNO. Sure, the .375 is also DG-legal in most of Africa, but the .404’s got that covered for a one Buff hunt.

roklok said:

In my experience a .35 Whelen shooting 250 grain at 2500+ has more recoil AND terminal performance than a 300 whatever with 180s.

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yes, the recoil of a 250 gr bullet at 2650fps will get your attention especially with light rifle like my Sauer at 7pounds 6 oz

channelkat said:

Does my perception match reality? I am under the impression that the 35 Whelen would be a step up in recoil (and terminal performance) from the .30-06, but significantly less than 300 Win Mag or 375H&H. For the rounds you would use, say on a large Eland, would you say this is accurate?

My boy is light and lengthy. He is handling .30-06 and 7PRC just fine, however I am being told by the outfitter that he really recommends 375 H&H on Eland or at least 300 Win Mag, due to the brush and body size in the area.

I am concerned about the boy handling that much recoil at this time. Would a 35 Whelen (firing something like a 200 gr TTSX) be a meaningful compromise? Other thoughts? Perhaps work on lower velocity 375 loads?

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your 30.06 with a load like the ones Buffalo Bore has in a 168 Barnes TSX with muzzle energy of 4000 pounds will do what ever he wants to take with it. Unless you want to make him a special gift rifle for his first safari then the 35 Whelen or a nice 9.3x62

NO bullet is brushproof. IF the brush isn't minimal and close to the target animal, you're not going to get a good hit! 300 mags pack 10-20+ gr of powder, and that smaller diameter and longer per same weight bullet has a higher SD and thus greater penetrating power! (Same for the '06 using 220-240s!) MANY eland have been taken with both. Your 35W is just fine (using 250s). The 06/A-Sq/W are actually quite comparable, ballistically. 'Used a 300 Barnes original SP in 338-06 to collect a monster of a Livingstone's Eland (and then my Son did same with a 375 and 270 SP.) Every single gun below will do the job with proper bullet selection and shooting! Anything 06 case with heavy bullets gives a pleasant shove (a la big bro 375). Any true magnum (w/ similar bullets) is going to dump more energy into you, faster. 'Had a 300 WM as a teen and the additional recoil was noticeable, but I learned to tolerate it (even w/ heavy handloads.) The 06 was much more pleasant (even the 338-06 w/ 300s was more pleasant to shoot.) Anything 300 is in the next league from 06 case (the "Poor Man's Magnum," as they call 'em) and the WM is just the beginning of 300 mags (2 Wbys, RUM, etc.) 300 WM is a perfect PG cartridge, but the 06 case has collected more game over the years (and same holds true for mine.)

*The above are handloads. With factory ammo, there's going to be more of a disparity in the 06-cased selections (lower V and E,) but it'll still get the job done.

Get as close as you can to that eland! 50-150 yds (<100 is ideal) Some weigh 2,400 lbs. This one, taken w/ the 338-06 A-Sq (nearly identical to 35W) and the 300 Barnes original SPs, was shot perfectly at 50 yds...it one-lunged it, so it dropped at 150 where I had to put another in. In retrospect, I'd have (at a minimum used the 250s-greater V and likely better penetration due to more premium Nos PTs or Swifts) or Used More Gun (300-375!) Son had same shot a decade later (w/ the 375) and the result was 0 forward movement and only a several feet of vertical movement (straight down!) We've seen plenty cleanly taken with 300s and 200+/- gr slugs.

C.W. Richter said:

Get as close as you can to that eland! 50-150 yds (<100 is ideal) Some weigh 2,400 lbs. This one, taken w/ the 338-06 A-Sq (nearly identical to 35W) and the 300 Barnes original SPs, was shot perfectly at 50 yds...it one-lunged it, so it dropped at 150 where I had to put another in. In retrospect, I'd have (at a minimum used the 250s-greater V and likely better penetration due to more premium Nos PTs or Swifts) or Used More Gun (300-375!) Son had same shot a decade later (w/ the 375) and the result was 0 forward movement and only a several feet of vertical movement (straight down!) We've seen plenty cleanly taken with 300s and 200+/- gr slugs. View attachment 778676

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Very nice!

Just curious since you mentioned the Barnes original 300grn SP bullet ... Do you happen to know what the jacket thickness is on those?

That is a fantastic question! I do not and could probably research it (or

Jack Stevens said:

Very nice!

Just curious since you mentioned the Barnes original 300grn SP bullet ... Do you happen to know what the jacket thickness is on those?

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call Ty Herring O' Barnes, but I suspect what happened (me thinking SD numbers to the Moon! LOL) is what you allude to...it's not that thick and the bullet set up (est. half a meter/18-20" or so) into the HUGE 2,400 lb eland. (That'd be the equivalent of out the other side of a (second) deer and collecting the bullet on the far hide of an elk or big bear!!) I do have some info on 'em somewhere. 'Got 'em at a very old outdoors store (1/2 box of dust atop each of 2 boxes!) but that store is still open and more recently opened a fancy new shop! God Bless 'em. But, an Eland is a HUGE animal. HUGE. Relatively thick skin, big boned, incredible musculature and then that natural fat marbling. Swift or Nos PT (or big Barnes) would be the way to go (anything newer, more premium construction.) It's definitely the old cup/core design, if not Gen 1! It may even be a decent jacket, but it has no anchor points...no interlock, no partitions a la Nos PTs or Swift's improvement of same. My Son took a very nice L. Eland using Rem factory 270 Core-Lokt (also an improvement over what I first used nearly 20 years ago to the day!) and then brained a 42" bull that eve using same.

*lol you remind me (good memories!!) of contacting Ty Herring of Barnes for load data (the bullets were so old,) but at the same time they were just introducing the 350 gr .375s (of Kevin Robertson "make your 375 a 416!") and no load data was published, so he sent me that too! He specifically said (w/ the '06) case...keep the shots under 150 yds, but the Old data using New powder resulted in a more than adequate 2,440 fps! Also super accurate. The holes in targets couldn't be punched better by machines (cut so perfect!) lol I'll post some pics when I'm up at the fam farm (reloading room!) They are ridiculously long (.331 SD!) and (similar to big Nos PTs) the front half is tapered towards the RN lead core sticking out. Pleasure to shoot...a very prolonged shoulder shove but not painful by any means! I'll get some pics/data and report back. I wanted to try the bullets (in the .338 A-Sq, essentially the .338-378 Wby that Art Alphin first created) on Buffalo, but after the eland (at much lower V in the .338-06 A-Sq) it might not work out so well...lol PH liked the idea, however, and with 2 trigger happy .416s at my side, it'd probably work out in any event!

channelkat said:

Does my perception match reality? I am under the impression that the 35 Whelen would be a step up in recoil (and terminal performance) from the .30-06, but significantly less than 300 Win Mag or 375H&H. For the rounds you would use, say on a large Eland, would you say this is accurate?

My boy is light and lengthy. He is handling .30-06 and 7PRC just fine, however I am being told by the outfitter that he really recommends 375 H&H on Eland or at least 300 Win Mag, due to the brush and body size in the area.

I am concerned about the boy handling that much recoil at this time. Would a 35 Whelen (firing something like a 200 gr TTSX) be a meaningful compromise? Other thoughts? Perhaps work on lower velocity 375 loads?

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@channelkat
It all depends on the loads you use in the Whelen .with factory loads the recoil isn't much more than the 30-06.

When reloaded to it's full potential the recoil steps up a notch but still very comfortable.
My beanpole daughter who is not really a shooter handles my Whelen loaded with 250 grainers at 2,700fos out of my Whelen.
For game the size of eland I would step up to the 225gn TTSX and load it to 2,800fps. This would do for ALL PLAINS GAME.
The Whelen is a very accurate, mine groups 0.75" or less with anything I feed it.
Start with factory loads that are mild in my opinion then work up to full power handloads to get the best out of it
There's a lot of posts in the Whelen and it's effectiveness in this site if you search for them
Bob