Your Thoughts: Free Daily Rates?

[BRICKBURN]

............ No one per baits all year at least not to my knowledge. ..............

Oh, there are certainly outfitters across southern Africa who have a year round feeding program.

 

[johnnyblues]

Oh, there are certainly outfitters across southern Africa who have a year round feeding program.

I stand corrected. Thank you.

 

[BRICKBURN]

As @Royal27 noted, it is pretty simple to create a spread sheet to compare numbers.

As always, look at the Apples and Oranges and make sure your comparison shopping takes everything in to account.

Not to change the subject, but Auction hunts require the same diligence. It's another marketing mechanism.
How many of these auction hunts have we seen someone attempting to sell here? The naive purveyor exclaiming the great deal.

Here's one: Blesbuck and Impala included, 7 day hunt for two hunters. He "only" paid $1250.00 at auction and just wants to recoup his money.
Go to the website and find: Kudu trophy fee ONLY $7000.00

https://www.africahunting.com/threa...safari-for-two-hunters-with-nb-safaris.24243/

Some more debate on the topic
https://www.africahunting.com/threads/sci-auction-hunts.13947/


I'm sure there are some great Auction hunts and other loss leaders where the vendor is not shuffling costs. It is up to the hunter to get educated and determine the value of the offers and make their choice.
Welcome to the power of AH!

 

[Dinsdale]

As @Royal27 noted, it is pretty simple to create a spread sheet to compare numbers.

I'm sure there are some great Auction hunts and other loss leaders where the vendor is not shuffling costs. It is up to the hunter to get educated and determine the value of the offers and make their choice.
Welcome to the power of AH!

+1

I haven't done a "free day rates" hunt; but have done auction, management, package hunts and turned all of them into larger hunts by adding some days and/or trophy animals to upgrade at a very nice discount off a full price hunt.

I see them all at a different way to market and its up to me to figure out what fits best.

Did share a camp where some first timers using a different PH doing a couple animals a piece on free day rates and had a conversation with one of them on what I was paying vs. what they paid to basically hunt same property. He was a bit disappointed to find that overall, I made a much better "deal"; but they didn't do much if any research and booked on impulse.

 

[jeff]

Many donation hunt given to different groups to auction off have such ridiculous trophy fees that they are a scam and a rip off because the uniformed think they're getting the hunt at a bargain price. Some auction hunts are legitimate and are a great deal, just like some no or low day fees are legitimate. You can't lump all offers together!

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I have not done a "free day rates" hunt, but know one of the AH sponsors that occasionally makes a special offer with no day rates. I think it all boils down to what sort of business model the offer is made by. This particular operation owns most of the land they hunt, is the outfitter and PH. They also operate a commercial meat processing and butcher shop, so they really control the full value chain. I also think some of their motive to make such an offer is game management related (they have a lot of wildlife and occasionally need to thin the herd). If a hunter paid day fees and only harvested a few animals, the cash isn't very good. Also, the free day rate with a minimum take ( x number of animals) takes the risk off of the client. I've done an expensive brown bear hunt with no trophy fee and didn't get a bear. I would have loved to had a lower day rate and a high trophy fee.

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

I LOVE IT NO DAY FEES BRING IT ON!!
OK I WANT A LEOPARD HUNT WITH NO DAY FEES AND TROPHY FEE MAKE ME AN OFFER
I do not like high day fees and low trophy fees that puts the risk on me, no day fee and a bigger trophy fee risk is on the PH and outfit, put them in my gun sights make money you don't then you go hungry.
And yes I realize there is no such thing as a free lunch that the trophy fees will most likely be higher to make back the profit lost without day fees.
Just like I know that "cheap" package hunts are just that you will most likely be shooting lower quality animals especially in RSA where it is a pay to play game in reality. again no free lunch.

hi all
why do you assume because a "cheap package hunt" means lower quality trophies
most of the time I think prices of trophies are made up by how many are available and if they want to reduce number
I know we offer a good price on kudu, and I guarantee the quality is great, its just the area has great kudu topography and genetics!!!

 

[Tally-Ho HUNTING SAFARIS]

the "no day rates" are built in somewhere, that's the bottom line

regards

 

[Deleted member 40394]

I have been spending a lot of time researching lately. Ran across a few that had no daily fees. I would just rather purchase a package that includes all animals I want and have the option to add a few more. My plan is to get A quote from my top 5 on a 10 day hunt for my top 5 animals with ability to add 2 more. The daily fees with VAT add up. Of course it’s only a small piece of the overall pie but I would rather pay lower daily and a little higher package fee for the animals I want all inclusive. From what I can tell one of the outfitters on my list likes to give 2-3 animal packages. The problem though is they have high trophy fees which are all subject to VAT of 14%. If you add $7000 worth of animals then you spend another 1000 on tax. Plus another charge of $360 total for your pickup and dropoff at airport plus another $400 to rent a rifle. I’d just rather buy a good all inclusive package so that I cant see the charge I am getting for taxes and to borrow a rifle. Lol

 

[jeff]

Vat is only applicable to animals not exported.

 

[enysse]

I have always bought packaged hunts with lower daily fees and upgraded based on the animals I saw on the hunt. Granted, I'm always looking for mature animals and exceptional animals. My hunting strategy has worked great for me and I believe it gives the outfitter a chance to show all the wonderful animals that available to hunt on the property. I never felt cheated on any package hunt I bought!

 

[jpr792]

Some great information on this post... Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.

 

[seattlesetters]

I m actually OK with free daily rates as long as the trophy fees remain the same and there is no minimum. I know the “no minimum” might be difficult to swallow for some outfitters but I feel it is a way for them to show good faith toward potential clients and to also offer an option which may differentiate them in a crowded market.

I believe it can work well if there is open and honest communication between outfitter and potential clients. This type of package will not be suitable for everyone and an outfitter certainly has the right to determine to whom such an arrangement might be offered.

For example, a hunter looking for a really big Roland Ward trophy as his primary goal may not be the right fit. Same goes for a hunter looking to add a couple of “better” animals to his collection than he already has.

For a first-time hunter who is looking for a mixed bag and really has no idea what he’ll end up liking to hunt or for someone looking to shoot a good number of “representative” animals in a certain area, I think this style of package would be an attractive option.

Once both the outfitter and client have agreed that this type of hunt might work for each other is when the real communication needs to start happening. The client must be honest about what he or she wants in terms of trophy quality and also about which two or three animals are a priority. The outfitter also needs to be honest about what quality of animals are being offered by species. So, an outfitter might say, “I have a bunch of good Gemsbok, Red Hartebeest and Steenbok so we will try for excellent trophies on those species. However, my big Kudu and big Springbok and big Blue Wildebeest are fewer in number and more valuable to me. I’d prefer you be willing to settle for representative examples of these animals. Everything else is whatever you and the PH agree on.” Then, a discussion on what these terms mean can be had.

The outfitter would also be free to communicate how many animals or what monetary amount he needs at minimum for this to work for him and he could also expect a gentleman’s agreement in return that an honest effort would be made by the hunter to achieve it. The hunter would also be within his rights to get an agreement from the outfitter that the highest effort will be made to get him all the animals he wants and that the effort would be made for the entirety of his trip.

Being a first-timer myself, I would absolutely entertain the idea of hammering out a mutually-beneficial deal such as outlined above with an honest man. I’d shake his hand and buy him a whisky upon meeting him on the ground in Africa.

I don’t think of this as a gimmick or even as a move of desperation. I think it may be a viable alternative (although a niche one, at that) in a crowded and shrinking market. I also believe that for any idea, its merit can only be determined if it is tried. The model needs to be implemented, executed and measured for effectiveness before acceptance or rejection can be achieved.

Remember, things like Facebook, Instagram and YouTube were once “gimmicks” that were used by very few people. Although the jury is still clearly not in on the subject of free day fees, some deliberation on its merits is necessary before a verdict is reached.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

I m actually OK with free daily rates as long as the trophy fees remain the same and there is no minimum.

I'd say the challenge in what you're proposing is in the part of both the outfitter and client being honest about what they offer and want. The outfitter in this situation must be honest about what he wants as he's the one taking the risk. The client can talk all day about all the animals they're after, but at the end of the day he isn't taking as much risk with a no minimum no day fee hunt.

Having been involved in the industry for a few years now on the outfitters side of the table at the booth, the vast majority of hunters aren't going to come in bs'ing about what their plans are, they have a list and may even add to it once on the ground. But there are those few hunters who are in it completely for themselves and the outfitter making a profit is of no relevance. So what does the outfitter do at the end of a seven day, no day fee hunt and the hunter has taken one animal?

 

[BRICKBURN]

............. So what does the outfitter do at the end of a seven day, no day fee hunt and the hunter has taken one animal?

Never offers it again and shortly ....

 

[seattlesetters]

I'd say the challenge in what you're proposing is in the part of both the outfitter and client being honest about what they offer and want. The outfitter in this situation must be honest about what he wants as he's the one taking the risk. The client can talk all day about all the animals they're after, but at the end of the day he isn't taking as much risk with a no minimum no day fee hunt.

Having been involved in the industry for a few years now on the outfitters side of the table at the booth, the vast majority of hunters aren't going to come in bs'ing about what their plans are, they have a list and may even add to it once on the ground. But there are those few hunters who are in it completely for themselves and the outfitter making a profit is of no relevance. So what does the outfitter do at the end of a seven day, no day fee hunt and the hunter has taken one animal?

Require a deposit that covers the outfitter’s costs for the number of days the guest will be in camp.

 

[PHOENIX PHIL]

Require a deposit that covers the outfitter’s costs for the number of days the guest will be in camp.

Are those not day fees?

 

[seattlesetters]

Are those not day fees?

No. The deposit would be applied to trophy fees once our sport starts harvesting game.

It’s just a way to protect the outfitter from the few who might not cover the expense by taking enough game animals. I see no issue with this as deposits are required on Day fee hunts, as well.

 

[revturbo9967]

No. The deposit would be applied to trophy fees once our sport starts harvesting game.

do they lose this deposit if a hunter doesn't harvest game?

 

[seattlesetters]

do they lose this deposit if a hunter doesn't harvest game?

Yes, just as they would for a day fee hunt if they didn’t show up. This deposit would essentially be agreed upon as good faith from the hunter that he will show up and take game, which is really no different than the deposit requirements of a day fee hunt.

It is just applied differently once the hunter arrives at camp.