Renting a rifle for your African safari

[npm352]

I've rented guns twice. Once I was in the middle of a 3 month backpacking trip from Nairobi to Cape Town and planned a short hunt on the way. No choice. Gun not great but perfectly acceptable and it killed everything I needed it to. $50/day. The second was a last minute lion hunt a few days before the ban. I did not want to get hung up with a lost gun with so little time to spare so I rented. Adequate and was accurate for me. It worked, but would have liked my 375 for dangerous stuff...plus, I like open sights. $100 flat fee for whole hunt....reasonable for sure. A double is a cool option. I am a severe penny pincher and would not pay extra, but I literally drive a 93 maxima with duck tape holding it together so I can hunt dangerous game. Your rifles look wonderfully kept and high quality. The double is a great idea and charging more for it is reasonable BC they are so pricey. I really appreciate that you let people shoot your others for free....you are right that some of the rates for rifle hire are ridiculous considering price paying to be there.

 

[JGRaider]

Everyone's different I guess, but I would say I've shot at least a 1/4 million rounds out of double guns (a fraction of that from DRs).

That's a heckuva lot of shooting. As a matter of fact, that's launching 17 rounds per day, every day, for the past 40 years. WOW!

 

[BRICKBURN]

 

[rookhawk]

I said predominantly double "guns", not double rifles. I'd be bankrupt if I shot a quarter million DR rounds! It goes pretty fast. Shooting scatter guns you can easily blow a case of ammo an outing and sometimes a lot more. A driven shoot will be 1-2 cases. Almost a case for two rounds of sporting clays. Add in rifle work and it really adds up. Four years ago I bought out a bankrupt ammo distributor and at the end of a year I realized I shot a 1.5 car garage full of pallets of ammo in a year personally! When you usually buy as you go you never appreciate how much you go through.

Tangential thought - One of the things I love about SxS British DRs is they handle just like SxS British shotguns, although heavier. A lot of practice and muscle memory gets built up that way. I find that muscle memory translates really well to single shot rifles because of the tang safety similarity. That's probably why I get so concerned at the thought of quickly trying a "rental" DR as so many modern brands don't operate as I or any other shooter is accustomed....it could get dicey in a charge.

 

[rookhawk]

Sorry @BRICKBURN guilty as charged. I'll ease off the tangents.

 

[Velo Dog]

Hi rookhawk,

I've not been to Africa very many times, so I am still learning.
However, I have had the great privilege of firing 6 rifles total, belonging to 3 separate PH's (.222 Sako, 7x57 Zastava, .30-06 Brno 600, .30-06 CZ 550FS, .375 H&H Brno 602 and 458 3" S.A. Express CZ 550 Magnum).
Half were only at paper targets but I have used the two .30-06's plus the .375 mentioned, to cull with and take a couple of sport hunted antelopes with as well, on different trips to the same camp.

All 6 of these rifles were in tip-top shape, except for bluing wear on a couple of them, from carrying many a long mile.
Mechanically they all 6 functioned right, crisp triggers, etc., and all were accurate.
The .458 had only express sights but the others wore either a Leupold or Zeiss scope, (except the .222 which wore a "Lynx" brand 4x scope).
The Lynx seemed like a middle of the road to slightly less than perfect quality scope, but at the least it was very accurate anyway.
Maybe aside from that one scope, all the above were such that I would happily bring any of them to Africa if they were mine, (the .222 caliber might be fun to hunt "the tiny ten" with, not to mention hunting jackals by means of a rabbit squealer call).
Those three PHs are the "real deal", and not very likely to own anything less than a well tuned firearm.
I would have no worries if any of them were backing me on any DG species, (including the most dangerous ones - human criminals).

Personally, I would be nervous (very nervous) about hunting dangerous animals with a PH who could not be bothered to maintain his rifle/s.
I once refused to get in an air taxi here in Alaska, because when the pilot finally showed up and drove us from the hotel out to his tie-down, he said "that damn tire is flat again, well ... I'll have to see if I can borrow a compressor to fill it and then we can go plus, I forgot to bring some oil anyway so, I'll be back in a few minutes".
Also, I noticed dirty black oil dripping (one drop about every 3 to 5 seconds) from the bottom of the cowling, into an impressive oil puddle, on the ground and large lengthways black streaks under said cowling, obviously from flying it that way.

As for unprepared or generally incompetent clients who might want to rent a double rifle, as opposed to renting a Mauser or even bringing their own rifle of any description, I am of the opinion that those types will always be an unprepared nitwit which their unfortunate PH will be stuck with, always having to keep one eye on the fumbling client and one eye on the game.

For guys like you and I renting a double rifle - We would if nothing else buy a less than fancy double shotgun with double triggers, a case of slugs and practice our boodies off.
The shrugger and the nitwit would not practice very much with anything, even if they already owned it.
I only have one double rifle but cannot afford to return to Africa with it at the moment.
Suddenly being able to borrow or even rent a double over there has huge appeal to me, because although heart breaking, I could sell my double and use the money to return to you-know-where for another safari.
Being able to use that vintage .404 Mauser is likewise very tempting.
It is tempting.

Well anyway cheerio,
Velo Dog.

 

[LivingTheDream]

So I had to use a rental on my hunt due to my gun getting lost. I got lucky because the bolt action had the same tang safety as mine. So all the muscle memory was still there.

So I would definitely rent a gun and the one I used was in great shape.

If I were going to rent a double and I would. I would ask the PH to send me pictures so I can review the safety and ejector mechanisms and would get a similar type of shotgun or smaller double as they become significantly cheaper and would practice, practice, practice. End of the day the muscle memory will be there and the sight picture would be similar.

 

[dobber]

I used the PH's rifle, similar rifle at home, shot dead to nuts till some adrenaline kicked in, then i went to schit and made more misses than hits. Nothing wrong with the gun at all, was well looked after, and many people have used that same rifle, i hope to pull the trigger of it again one day
One question that i have to add onto this, how are the rental funds shared with the PH is paying the outfitter for this?

 

[Wheels]

Karl,

You have a fine selection of camp rifles. Quality camp rifles may be the wave of the future. World governments will probably make it more and more difficult to transport firearms going forward. I have seen good and poor camp rifles. Even used them a couple of times. It is certainly a way to differentiate yourself from the competition.

I would hate to be the guy that put the first ding or scratch in a new VC. I would be happy to use the 375. Especially if it was free.

All the best in your decision.

 

[ndumo HUNTING SAFARIS]

I used the PH's rifle, similar rifle at home, shot dead to nuts till some adrenaline kicked in, then i went to schit and made more misses than hits. Nothing wrong with the gun at all, was well looked after, and many people have used that same rifle, i hope to pull the trigger of it again one day
One question that i have to add onto this, how are the rental funds shared with the PH is paying the outfitter for this?

dobber, I think in the case that you rent it from the PH he will get the full amount.
In my case, I am the outfitter and sometimes the PH as well, but as stated, my outfit currently does not charge for use of a rifle. All above are my personal fire arms, and even when hunting with another PH on "my" concessions, the rifle rent would be zero.

rookhawk, no. 2 is my .450 Rigby, built on a double sqaure bridge magnum Mauser copy (Vektor), and the bottom one is a 9,3x64 Brenneke caliber rifle built on a Oberndorf (military, reworked) action.
The rest are(for those interested in such things...)

no.1 .577 NE Verney Carron
no 3: .404 Jeff on commercial Oberndorf
n0.4: Mod 70 Winchester in .416 Rem
no.5: CZ 550 in .375 H&H (had a American Hunting Rifles cocking piece, safety, trigger fitted, shorten the barrel to 22 inches and Guncote it for hunting in the swampy parts of Caprivi).

Thanks for all the feedback. Just one thing... Maybe I am lucky, but most of my clients are well prepared, and experienced shots and hunters. A couple of them has shot my .577 and my .500 NE (the latter being also a VC, but more classic lines) with great results.

 

[siml]

Karl, great looking battery. I am not a double rifle fan at all for clients, I personally believe a double is a PH back up gun. I have seen several clients even with their own doubles not to be able to shoot straight with a double. Put unfamiliar double in his hands and I think it's recipe for trouble.

With a bolt rifle, a few shots on the range and a person should be good to go. There's a saying in Afrikaans, it's not the rifles fault, it's the person pulling the trigger. If you can't shoot straight, don't blame the rifle.

To answer your question..50$ a day plus ammo would be a fair price. A double is expensive to purchase.

 

[firehuntfish]

Sadly, I fear that this query supports my assumption that there is a herd of jackasses out there that have prepared minimally for a hunt and just don't care, otherwise you wouldn't be thinking of offering this courtesy.

Wow...! Jackasses?? That's a broad brush stroke that probably includes half of the first-time safari clients that visit Africa. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you were referring more directly to dangerous game hunters that request to borrow guns where your outrage would arguably be better justified. But for plainsgame, what's the problem?

I don't think that this is a new or rare concept by any measure. Every African outfitter that I have ever hunted with has offered the option for clients to borrow or hire rifles on plainsgame hunts. They have all been quality rifles with quality optics. I would be proud to own any of them.

For many on safari with the wives & families who will moving on to Cape Town, Kruger, Vic Falls, etc., or even those on last minute safaris, it's a very convenient option to not have to worry about traveling with or storing rifles. My wife rifle hunts on occasion, and we have always enjoyed the convenience of not having to travel with guns. To infer that we are minimally prepared or "just don't care" is not only ignorant, but a bit insulting.

 

[rookhawk]

As I previously said, my attitude is solely focused on Dangerous Game hunting. I see no moral hazard to renting a plains game rifle or even a magazine rifle for dangerous game. I just imagine the thought of a totally unprepared person that rented a double rifle of which they have little to know experience with that gun. As I've said, they regulate differently based on how tight you hold them, how you grip them, how you hold the forend just to name a few. How they file the sights. Whether they have a safety or a "cocking switch" totally changes how you may ready your rifle. They are a weapon of muscle memory and instinctive shooting, neither of which can be had without much training. It's not something you just pick up and "rent". It appears that everyone disagrees with me on this point so I'll shut up now as I've expressed my reservations.

So as to not totally take over the thread I'll summarize the OP question and I'll bow out of the thread hijacking business.

1.) You're extremely generous to offer your clients very fine rifles for rent
2.) Your prices seem beyond fair after sharing the photos of your guns (which are extremely serviceable)
3.) Be safe OP. The guy trying out the double rifle for the first time is going to have it aimed at your back as he's lurking behind you on the walk up in the jess for the second shot!
4.) Based on #3, the OP needs a raise!

 

[rinehart0050]

I see nothing wrong with outfitters providing rifles for their clients, as long as they are quality. @Ndumo Hunting Safaris I think the rate you're considering charging for a high quality double is more than fair.

@rookhawk I think its easy as Americans to make judgements of those looking to borrow a rifle because its very easy for us to own firearms. Many prospective safari clients come from countries where gun ownership is not a simple matter. Should they not be allowed to go on safari because their government chooses to restrict them on gun ownership at home? This doesn't even start to touch on the hassle of exporting/importing firearm, risk of loosing them, etc etc etc. There are lots of good reasons to hire a rifle upon arrival.

 

[CAustin]

I think the hunter who can afford a DG hunt can afford $200 a week plus ammo but would that help you with the purchase?

 

[Wheels]

. Once I was in the middle of a 3 month backpacking trip from Nairobi to Cape Town .

Now that is a topic worthy of its own thread! Would love to hear more about it.

 

[spike.t]

I just imagine the thought of a totally unprepared person that rented a double rifle of which they have little to know experience with that gun. As I've said, they regulate differently based on how tight you hold them, how you grip them, how you hold the forend just to name a few. How they file the sights."

ok @rookhawk so basically anyone who buys a double is buying a piece of junk that wont shoot for them? what you have written here is total bull shit . any top end double including say a holland royal is made to the clients measurements....but he doesnt shoot it to regulate it, so i really dont get what you are on about with your above statement...........and your comments earlier about phs rifles and rental rifles i find pretty arrogant even if you did back peddle a bit .........

 

[rinehart0050]

Now that is a topic worthy of its own thread! Would love to hear more about it.

I second @Wheels! Lets hear more about this backpacking trip... in a separate thread!

 

[rookhawk]

ok @rookhawk so basically anyone who buys a double is buying a piece of junk that wont shoot for them? what you have written here is total bull shit . any top end double including say a holland royal is made to the clients measurements....but he doesnt shoot it to regulate it, so i really dont get what you are on about with your above statement...........and your comments earlier about phs rifles and rental rifles i find pretty arrogant even if you did back peddle a bit .........

Your reading comprehension is poor. Your understanding of double rifles is not well stated. I never said DRs are junk. I own a few myself.

I said in summary, that no one is going to quickly acclimate to a foreign double rifle on the fly during a dangerous game hunt in Africa. You don't spur of the moment rent one and give it a try with a DR. You study yours, you practice, you learn how it aims FOR YOU. You learn how it shoots based on how YOU HOLD IT. You learn how it shoots based on how you hold YOUR GUNS FOREND. You master your guns gape, ejection or extraction nuances. You memorize how your ammo belt feeds. No such preparations are possible when you show up seeking to rent such an item. It's like renting a tourist a helicopter with no prior training.

It's not a Mauser. It's a personalized, owner specific highly specialized killing instrument. It is not any easy weapon to use but with practice, it can be very effective. They are fickle. They are sensitive. Carelessly handled they are easy to screw up. Not your typical rental product commodity. Not typically a prudent thing to hand to a neophyte. Me personally, I would not feel comfortable shooting your DR on loan because I would not be optimally "on" using it on a dangerous game hunt where life and death relies on being very proficient with your weapon.

That's basically what I said.

 

[spike.t]

Your reading comprehension is poor. Your understanding of double rifles is not well stated. I never said DRs are junk. I own a few myself.

I said in summary, that no one is going to quickly acclimate to a foreign double rifle on the fly during a dangerous game hunt in Africa. You don't spur of the moment rent one and give it a try with a DR. You study yours, you practice, you learn how it aims FOR YOU. You learn how it shoots based on how YOU HOLD IT. You learn how it shoots based on how you hold YOUR GUNS FOREND. You master your guns gape, ejection or extraction nuances. You memorize how your ammo belt feeds. No such preparations are possible when you show up seeking to rent such an item. It's like renting a tourist a helicopter with no prior training.

It's not a Mauser. It's a personalized, owner specific highly specialized killing instrument. It is not any easy weapon to use but with practice, it can be very effective. They are fickle. They are sensitive. Carelessly handled they are easy to screw up. Not your typical rental product commodity. Not typically a prudent thing to hand to a neophyte. Me personally, I would not feel comfortable shooting your DR on loan because I would not be optimally "on" using it on a dangerous game hunt where life and death relies on being very proficient with your weapon.

That's basically what I said.

nope i think your comprehension is cocked go and read my post again.......what you say here below is still bullshit as far as i am concerned

"As I've said, they regulate differently based on how tight you hold them, how you grip them, how you hold the forend just to name a few. How they file the sights."

according to you this means that the person buying a double will not shoot it the same as the person who regulated it, as he will not hold it in exactly the same way the person who regulated it would have done......so according to this the rifle wont shoot to point of aim for the new owner. sorry dont agree. oh and i first used a double in 1989 and since then i have had at least one ,hence my email address below.