338 Win Mag for plains game

I used a .338 on 2 African safaris and it was perfect on everything from jackal to an eland. I used nosler partitions with impressive results— you don’t need A-frames so don’t stress. You already have the rifle. Go practice w it— off sticks, kneeling, offhand, leaning against a tree. And start walking. Lots. Get your boots broken in. Get your 4457 (s) taken care of. It’s fun to think this stuff through but don’t fret.
 
I have a Model 70 in .338 WM (1:10 twist, 24” barrel) that I plan to take to S Africa next August.
I’ve been shooting Barnes projectiles in most of my firearms for the past several years, so naturally that is what I began looking at for the .338. Swift A Frames will not be an option unless I get lucky enough to catch them in stock or load my own.
Kudu, Wildebeest and Zebra will be the largest animals on my list.
The factory offerings from Barnes (210 and 225 TTSX) aren’t very far apart, but Double Tap ammunition offers a 160gr Barnes TTSX that they claim is over 3000 fps and has 4100# of energy at the muzzle. Keeping in mind that these bullets perform their best at 2,000 fps and above, would the 160gr be a better choice than the 200+ gr projectiles, or am I overthinking this a bit too much?
Any input will be much appreciated.
Greetings 24on48.
338 is quite a large caliber and is ready for anything and everything. Since it has a width of .338, the question is how the 1/10 twist will stabilize the190gr bullets. Energy is not a problem, the question is what kind of group you will make
 
Greetings 24on48.
338 is quite a large caliber and is ready for anything and everything. Since it has a width of .338, the question is how the 1/10 twist will stabilize the190gr bullets. Energy is not a problem, the question is what kind of group you will make
My 338 is a Sako model 85. I have shot 200g, 225g and 230g ammo thru it and all stabilized pretty well. The 225 and 200's seemed to shoot the best. I have not tried lighter or heavier ammo in it.
 
My 338 is a Sako model 85. I have shot 200g, 225g and 230g ammo thru it and all stabilized pretty well. The 225 and 200's seemed to shoot the best. I have not tried lighter or heavier ammo in it.
I agree. I don't think you should go below 200gr, especially not for lead bullets.
Maybe monoliths with a longer length would be stable, but that needs to be checked.
 
I agree. I don't think you should go below 200gr, especially not for lead bullets.
Maybe monoliths with a longer length would be stable, but that needs to be checked.
My understanding is that it is longer, heavier bullets that need a faster twist to stabilize. Shorter, lighter bullets should not be a problem, though, with the case capacity of the 338 WM there is little need to go lighter than 200 gr.

Just checked the most recent edition of the Hornady Reloading Manual. They list loads from their 185 CX as the lightest. It’s doing around 3000 fps with max loads. 200 gr lead bullets 3000fps, 225 gr 2800 fps, 250 2650.

225 gr bullets seem like the Goldilocks round.
 
225 gr bullets seem like the Goldilocks round.

That's been my conclusion for 30 years or so. I've tried 185 gr up to 275 gr. I settled on the 225 gr, usually in the form of a Swift A Frame.
 
Im a big fan of the Norma PH 230gr Oryx. They just made a slight change and put a little bit of a boat tail on the bullet, and I havent killed any game with those yet. My experience with the old style bullet has been excellent. One of the lowest cost factory loads available is a nice bonus. I havent taken them to Africa (yet) but if I were going tomorrow, thats what I would bring and shoot everything I legally could with them.
 
My understanding is that it is longer, heavier bullets that need a faster twist to stabilize. Shorter, lighter bullets should not be a problem, though, with the case capacity of the 338 WM there is little need to go lighter than 200 gr.

Just checked the most recent edition of the Hornady Reloading Manual. They list loads from their 185 CX as the lightest. It’s doing around 3000 fps with max loads. 200 gr lead bullets 3000fps, 225 gr 2800 fps, 250 2650.

225 gr bullets seem like the Goldilocks round.
@375Ruger416
So with those loads what's it doing that the Whelen with the same weight projectiles won't do and the 185s in the Whelen will break the 3,100fos barrier no problem.
Sorry I'll stick with the Whelen.
Bob
 
@375Ruger416
So with those loads what's it doing that the Whelen with the same weight projectiles won't do and the 185s in the Whelen will break the 3,100fos barrier no problem.
Sorry I'll stick with the Whelen.
Bob
Bob, I will have to get a rifle in 35 Whelen.
I never used that cal, and i never seen it here, even though I have adjusted 1,000,000 carbines on the shooting range. But since you praise it so much,i get one. I just have to get the dies for him,we dont have ammo for that cal
 
@375Ruger416
So with those loads what's it doing that the Whelen with the same weight projectiles won't do and the 185s in the Whelen will break the 3,100fos barrier no problem.
Sorry I'll stick with the Whelen.
Bob
Whose published max charge load data claims MV of 3100fps or faster? I am curious and would like to see the data. When I read your comment above it piqued my interest but my short search of Speer, Barnes, Sierra, Nosler, and a couple of others yielded only one load that barely broke exactly 3000fps in the 35W using the Barnes 180g bullet not a 185g pill and it was at max with A-2460 powder. That is a powder that is only moderately temp stable and would be one to avoid max loads with if they will be subjected to wide variation in ambient temps.

Perhaps you have your own unpublished recipes that are getting there but such would be rifle and bbl length specific and not something that one could repeat in all cases. I know the 30-06 and the Whelen were not loaded to the max possible pressures of their case but that could be said of most any cartridge albeit some have more head room than others. Please don't take this wrong as I am genuinely curious as the Whelen is one of those cartridges that is making a come back and seems to punch well above its weight class. I just do not reload for most of my hunting rifles since I just do not get to shoot them enough to justify the investment in dies and components unless they are a cartridge that is very limited in its available offerings. I like what I see in the Whelen but am struggling with the lack of factory ammo and my aversion to investing in dies for something that I might only load 100rds for in a lifetime. And I have it bracketed already with two 338's and two 375HH rifles in my hunting battery already.

I have a 235g TSX load from Double Tap for 375HH that claims 3100fps on the box, but in my 375HH the actual chrono data has it chugging along at only 3030fps. Still respectable. I would not use it on game for the simple reason that it is a max charge load that had a ton of variation in the actual muzzle velocity and I prefer a milder load that has a more consistent performance than one that is on the ragged edge. Please send us more info on the Whelen when you have time.
 
Whelen will break the 3,100fos barrier no problem

I'll bet that old whelen can't move 230 grains at 2900 fps with room to go like the ol win mag can though!

I like both the whelen and the win mag alot. When it comes to pure horsepower, the win mag is a good one and it really comes alive (on both ends) with reloads.
 
I don't care how you load it, the 35 Whelen is about a 250 yard cartridge. Out to that distance, it definitely has a decisive edge in terminal performance over the 33's. But, the fat, stubby 35 caliber bullets start to fall out of the air past 250 yards. From there, even the modest 338-06 will walk all over any 35 caliber in existence. The various 33 caliber bullets simply fly better than their 35 caliber counterparts, making precise payload delivery much easier. That is a factor that matters very much. The 185 and 200 class .338 bullets can be driven well north of 3100 fps from a Win Mag case and a 24" barrel by any competent handloader. Even driven at the same velocity, no similar 35 caliber bullet can compete. The margin grows wider as the bullets get heavier.

Inside 250 yards, though, the 35 is the clear winner. Which one is better depends greatly on one's hunting style, shooting skill level, and logistical factors surrounding the chosen cartridge.

Truthfully, though, a properly loaded 30-06 or 300 Win Mag is more versatile and less fuss than any 33 or 35 caliber. That's if we are taking a practical approach to ANY of the problems being considered. OTOH, what fun is that?!?
 
Uploaded for @50Gunner , expressly for the enjoyment of @Bob Nelson 35Whelen

From 50Gunner- "Lifted off old dying flip phone. Three 300gr 338 cal Accubonds that departed at 2900fps, in 9 inches at 1125 yards"

(pics are a bit blurry, probably due to the original phone, then 2 transfers, but the group is visible in 2nd pic. Might be a good thing the 3rd pic is blurry :ROFLMAO: )
1772146273401.jpeg

1772146302617.jpeg

1772146329421.jpeg
 
Bob Nelson 35 Whelen, we have to admit the 338 cals do offer a bit of an advantage if hunting ranges get a tic long, trajectories are math and largely easily repeatable, the wind demons are the one's that can change a champ to a chump in one shot.

Speaking of 338 cals and horrible powder fuel mileage, this one burns near 120grs per shot, but, it will boot 300gr Accubonds out at 2900 fps, a bipod along with my little beer can sandbag for the buttstock carried in a cargo pocket pants makes one heck of a hard hitting stick and move hunting rig Bob, it weighs around 10.25lbs all up, Lapua makes a couple more 300gr bullets that can get a man out of any bad hangup.

Please disregard the face paint, I don't feel the need to paint up when I want to play Gee-Eye Jackass here at the farm, simply an old 2020 post Presidential election theft therapy session, I had been archery hunting a BIG midday sneaker of a whitetail buck earlier in the day, of course he had his nose in a doe deers butt somewhere else that day.

BTW Woodcarver, yes sir, that was my first and only selfie ; ]

We can thanks the Good Lord for that.
 
Here is some first hand real world recent experience using the 338wm on large tough antelope. This past week, my son and I along with two other hunting buddies went on a Texas Nilgai hunt. Me, my son and one of the other hunters all chose to use our 338 win mags for this hunt and the 4th hunter in our group used the 300wm with 200g TTSX ammo. The 338's used 225g TTSX at 2925fps MV and my son chose the Nosler AB 225g factory load which is running only 2750fps. I chose the faster Barnes load because it shot best in my rifle.

Nilgai are known to be tough. Built like 600-700lb tanks, I would put them in the same toughness class as Blue Wildebeest. My last Blue WB took three rounds of 375HH to put him down from 160-180y distance. The 300g TSX expanded to over 2x diam and did the job well.

In Texas ALL three hunters using the 338wm dropped their Nilgai in their tracks! Guides said that rarely happens. Ranges varied from 155y to 237y and none were shot in the central nervous system. My son's and mine were hit square in the hearts which burst in two from the impacts. We were quite impressed with the results. The one Nilgai in our group shot with the 300wm with 200g TTSX ran 150y and had to be tracked and finished later. Still a successful hunt but not nearly as impressive performance. That hunter is a very experienced marksman and placed his shot well (dbl lung).

I am planning to use the same load and ammo for Canadian Moose this fall and likely will also take it to Namibia for PG hunting next year. Unless, I were hunting a very large, very tough critter that required more than 24" penetration, I would consider the 338wm to be the killing power equivalent to the 375HH in every way and better for longer range shots past 250y. I would consider the 338 to be a ballistic sweet spot for killing larger PG animals. Yes, it kicks a bit but you never feel it in the field and yes a 30-06 or 308 will do nearly as well in 90% of all PG hunting cases.

On that last note: On my first Safari, I took a brace of two old 60's era FN Browning rifles. A Medallion Grade in 308 and a Safari Grade in 375HH. They both performed magnificently but I ended up using the 308 on all of my plains game up to a Gemsbok at the guidance of my PH who said the 308 was all I needed. That little ultra light rifle killed five animals all with one shot kills using Fusion 180g ammo. Testament to the fact that you do not need a big assed magnum to hunt PG in Africa. Use good ammo and shoot well and the 308 is more than adequate. This year, I took a 7mm/08 which one would expect to be little different but for whatever reason, the 7mm performance did drop off somewhat from that of the 308. I killed four PG animals with it but all required extra shots. It may have been the ammo? All copper monos. I had some Fusions but did not get the chance to try them on game. My FN's are on display below.

View attachment 748766
Those are some fine looking rifles! Thank you for the comment and information, I appreciate everybody’s input on the matter.
The 225gr Barnes ttsx shot the absolute best out of my Model 70 and I am a huge fan of their factory offerings. I feel most confident with this rifle as I shoot it extremely well with and without iron sights.
I have considered bringing my Sako 85 in .308 as a backup, but I opted for my Mathews V3X compound.
 
Bob, I will have to get a rifle in 35 Whelen.
I never used that cal, and i never seen it here, even though I have adjusted 1,000,000 carbines on the shooting range. But since you praise it so much,i get one. I just have to get the dies for him,we dont have ammo for that cal
I have had the 338 wm and the 358 w
For our deer and hogs the 358w looked like it hit harder
Now I was using light 338 200-225
And 225 -250 in the 358w
I sold the 338 and kept the 358
The 35 whelen is more of the 358w

I would get a 35w before I would get another 338 unless I came across a huge deal.
 
I have a .338 and a .340 WBY. Both would be fine on PG.



However, I think a .30/06 would be just as good, with the right bullets.

I know I've said this several times before, but asked 6 PH's around a campfire one night "What cartridge would you prefer your clients bring for plains game safari and every single one replied "a .30/06."

I'm an advocate for the versatility of a .30 caliber with proper bullets.

I've taken most of my PG animals with a 200g Sierra GameKing.



.30 caliber FMJ ammo is easy to find for "tiny" animals with minimal pelt destruction.
 

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MooseHunter wrote on Wildwillalaska's profile.
Hello BJ,

Don here AKA Moose Hunter. I think you got me by mistake. I have seen that rifle listed but it is not my rifle No worries
idjeffp wrote on Fish2table's profile.
I will be looking for a set of these when my .505 is done... sadly not cashed up right now for these. :(
Need anything in trade?
Cheers,
Jeff P
 
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