Politics

Brent in Az said:
What are the odds of another terrorist attack on American soil? It's been awhile.
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There’s always a threat…

That said, historically if you give the extremists a war to attend, they’ll focus their money and their efforts there…
 
Brent in Az said:
What are the odds of another terrorist attack on American soil? It's been awhile.
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Oh, it’s coming. How many poor, disheveled looking “migrant” terrorists have slipped quietly into the U.S. from our mostly non existent Southern border?
 
bowjijohn said:
An exit to Egypt for women and children and non fighting males would seem a sensible idea

Before IDF enter Gaza in search of Hamas fighters and hostages they’d do well to revisit ‘Black Hawk Down’
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I do not think there is any chance of "rescuing" any of these hostages in a classic sense. Unlike Entebbe where they were all co-located, these will have been dispersed throughout the human rabbit warren that is Gaza. 2 million people live in and area approximately 10 kilometers wide and 40 kilometers long - an area half the size of Manhattan and one of the densest populations on the planet.

Fox and CNN this morning are devoting continuous coverage to US family members pleading for their loved ones release and for the US and Israeli government "to do something." When the IDF begins to move against Gaza, I suspect Hamas will start exploiting the hostages. Israel will find itself under enormous pressure to agree to a ceasefire and negotiate for their release.
 
Red Leg said:
I do not think there is any chance of "rescuing" any of these hostages in a classic sense. Unlike Entebbe where they were all co-located, these will have been dispersed throughout the human rabbit warren that is Gaza. 2 million people live in and area approximately 10 kilometers wide and 40 kilometers long - an area half the size of Manhattan and one of the densest populations on the planet.

Fox and CNN this morning are devoting continuous coverage to US family members pleading for their loved ones release and for the US and Israeli government "to do something." When the IDF begins to move against Gaza, I suspect Hamas will start exploiting the hostages. Israel will find itself under enormous pressure to agree to a ceasefire and negotiate for their release.
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Yesterday am.
 
CoElkHunter said:
Oh, it’s coming. How many poor, disheveled looking “migrant” terrorists have slipped quietly into the U.S. from our mostly non existent Southern border?
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They are all slipping in, and joining the sleeper cells. Plotting......waiting......
 
CJW said:
This video is graphic. It's heart breaking and disgusting. It shows what evil truly is. But like Ben says, look at it. I will add that we need to remember that we have plenty of sympathizers in our own country and our government.

Pray for the prisoners.

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The video I posted is the Ben Shapiro show. I didn't realize until this morning that the age restriction warning was all you could see. My apologies if anyone thought I was taking them to some nefarious creator.
 
I agree

No chance of hostage rescue

A difficult decision to make

They can't level an entire community as they will lose both hostages and international support

I had (rather naively) thought

Provide an exit for the majority of Palestinians into Egypt - into the hands of the Int community, Red Cross etc

Cut off all water, electricity to Gaza

An old fashioned siege

You will lose the hostages, but not all international goodwill

I don't see an upside to hostage negotiation

But what do I know ?
 
Israel probably has less than two weeks to destroy Hamas before the goodwill they now have turns against them and their supporters like America start forcing Israel to tone it down. The humanitarian crisis will be more than the world will accept. Especially if something like cholera breaks out.

It's unfortunate that a couple of Israeli rockets don't go through a 5 Star hotel in Doha. That's the target that needs hit.


Israeli Energy Minister Israel Katz: “Before these days, we supplied the Gaza Strip with 54,000 cubic meters of water and 2,700 megawatts of electricity per day. Now this is not the case. They will have enough fuel for the generators for a few more days, and in a week without electricity, the sewage system will completely stop working. This is what the nation of child killers deserved. What happened will no longer happen."

1696947578151.png
 
Brent in Az said:
They are all slipping in, and joining the sleeper cells. Plotting......waiting......
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For a fictional but too damn believable vision of what could happen, read Dr. William Forstchen's Day of Wrath. I first read it in 2015 when the borders of the US were not so porous as they have been under Biden.

The premise of the book is that ISIS sleeper cells slip across the Mexican border, head to all 50 states in groups of 5, and pick an elementary school to attack. While 2-3 hit the school, the remainder cover some of the main roads to the school to shoot and kill parents as they rush to the school.

Substitute Hamas for ISIS and it is brought up to date.
 
Red Leg said:
I agree that there is a parallel. The scale was much larger in Tet, but the Hamas "offensive" is in a number of ways quite similar. There was a massive "indications and warning" failure by the intelligence community; the assault was initially successful in seizing ground and inflicting massive casualties; and conventional forces eventually overcame the enemy. Containing the much larger offensive in Tet it took weeks, inside Israel it took about 72 hours.

In 1968, the press, led by Walter Conkrite concluded that war could not be won. That conclusion was reached in spite of the fact that the Vietcong were destroyed as a meaningful combat force for the remainder of the war. The North Vietnamese regular units were used sparingly during the offensive to preserve their combat power.

There have been dozens of books written about Vietnam, but I think there is a general consensus that a constant stream of "we're making progress" reports from the American leadership in Saigon seemed to be made a lie by the offensive. The country was growing weary of the war, and the offensive seemed to indicate the North Vietnamese and Vietcong were gaining strength rather than being defeated. In that environment, any objective assessments from the battlefield were discarded by a then thoroughly skeptical press. We still have to await the eventual press reaction to Israel's coming ground assault into Gaza. However, Tet offers a clear warning.

The parallels pretty much end there however. Israel does not have the luxury of withdrawing and Gaza isn't going anywhere. For nearly fifty years, Israel has shown great restraint and allowed first the PLO and then Hamas a large degree of self-determination in Gaza. I am certain the coming incursion will be massive and will likely rival the fighting for control of Fallujah.

This morning it was announced that the crossing point from Gaza to Egypt had been reopened and that Israel was encouraging non-combatants to flee. I have no doubt reporters will be offered the opportunity to see any number of grieving Muslim mothers and wives once the Israeli counterattack begins. Taking a chapter from ISIS, Hamas may publicly murder their hostages. Unlike the US, I sense that Israel intends to carry through and defeat if not exterminate the Hamas organization. I suspect they will be immune to any press criticism for a while to come.
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I would take two conclusions, among others: 1. We were not allowed to fight to win in Vietnam, 2. Israel should not heed anyone else's admonition to not fight to WIN.
 
A couple of observations related more to our society that we can draw from the events in Israel.

  • Disarming your population is a bad idea. Israels gun laws prevented most people from having firearms unless they were police or military. An average person has to be permitted and then is only allowed 50 rounds of ammunition. Most of the civilians attacked had no means to defend themselves.
  • Related to the above, bad actors will always find a way to get weapons, the world is awash in guns. Gun prohibition prevents the law abiding from being armed, not the criminal/terrorist. Why this is not obvious to liberals is beyond my comprehension.
  • Complacency effects everyone, even military, but especially civilians. (in this case both) If you live in a dangerous area you can't afford to get complacent about the risks.
  • Liberal policies regarding dangerous individuals is a recipe for disaster. There are some who should not walk among the rest of society....EVER.
There are probably dozens of other personal lessons here that I'm not smart enough to see but these are the ones that seem obvious.
 
It may have already been addressed here but one thing that we should not lose sight of and that this attack is a vivid reminder of what not to allow to happen: more gun control.

The Israeli people used to be a more or less armed society but over the years they have succumbed to the same nonsense perpetrated on us on a daily basis. You know the drill.

All the same things we hear they were told as well. Immediately after the attack, it was announced that citizens could bypass some of the nonsense and purchase weapons for personal protection.

Sort of like closing the barn door after the horse is gone, too little too late. I hope that when the dust settles, they go back to being an armed citizenry.

Had the people there been armed, it would have saved many lives and the carnage would have been much less devastating. Instead, it was a rout by well-armed murderers against defenseless citizens.

And we should never allow this BS to happen to us.
 
Wheels said:
. . .It's unfortunate that a couple of Israeli rockets don't go through a 5 Star hotel in Doha. That's the target that needs hit. . .
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Not so fast I need to get into and out of Doha in a few days, and I already have enough problems with Qatar Airways.
 
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