What is wrong with you people?

[Big5]

,,,The true hunter has probably experience all of these & it would take a lot of freeekin beer & one big bonfire to pass all of those tales on!!!

I'll drink to that! There's nothing better than swapping hunting tales . . . but can you throw in a good bottle of scotch or sippin' whiskey too?

 

[DUGABOY1]

Gentlemen, there is one thing you can thank the so-called hunting ranches for, and that is it keeps the guy that has a lot of money, and no time, or pride in his hunting, out of the wilderness! Stop and think, if all the guys who shoot exclusively in privately owned hunting ranches, with privately owned animals were to suddenly have to book in the wilderness, because the ranches were legally closed! I don't think you would like the result! I like being in the wilderness with only other people who like being in the wilderness! :2c:

 

[Big5]

Gentlemen, there is one thing you can thank the so-called hunting ranches for, and that is it keeps the guy that has a lot of money, and no time, or pride in his hunting, out of the wilderness! :2c:

DUGABOY, I like the way you think! Beginning now I just may start praising the 'barnyard hunters' out there as a bit of a constructive measure to keep them out of the wilderness which many of us love so well.

 

[enysse]

I really liked DUGABOYS response. There are farms and ranches everywhere for people to hunt around the world. And if people are looking for a really nice lodge and a great animal.....there is price to pay and if you can afford it success is better than in the true wilderness.

Ryan is correct in a short hunt. The pressure is on everyone wants success but when time is short things can get hairy and the tempors flare. In North America you are probably going home empty handed...because weather and hunting pressure have a huge affect on the success. At least Africa, has nice weather. Yes, it can be windy and the moon can be bright.

The fact is they are not building anymore wilderness and culling the human race to make room for the lions,leopards,black rhinos, and elephants isn't going to happen.

I try not to think about the costs of desert sheep hunts and what not....it is what it is....hunting is not cheap and no one is going to feel sorry if you can't afford to go hunting.

 

[Skyline]

Enysse..............yes I had a good chuckle at Dugaboys post as well.

Ryan talked about pressure and really it is a big problem for all. The shorter hunts just compound it. All guides/ph's feel the pressure to produce. If you do not produce it affects your bookings because like it or not hunters are really only interested in dead animals and results.....they say they are not, but it really is not the case with most. The ones that got away do not count in promotion and marketing.

Hunters feel the pressure to not only get an animal, as they have a lot of money invested in the hunt, but also to make things happen when the opportunity presents itself.
Missed or wounded and lost are bad news. No opportunity is bad news, especially for the guy who just can't afford to do it every year.

I wish we could all collectively learn to chill out and smell the roses and get back to the main reason we hunt.......or at least what should be the main reason we hunt. That is the hunt itself, great companions, experiences.........not inches, medals and slams.

 

[DUGABOY1]

I wish we could all collectively learn to chill out and smell the roses and get back to the main reason we hunt.......or at least what should be the main reason we hunt. That is the hunt itself, great companions, experiences.........not inches, medals and slams.

That's my take as well! I have taken a lot of game in my 64 yrs hunting in the field, but the only measureing tape that has ever been on one of my animals, was used by the Guide, or PH for his own records. In all those years My little trophy room (actually MEMORYROOM) has twelve mounts in it, and I know the width of only two of them off the top of my head, and as I said I didn't measure them myself but was told the measurements by PH in Africa! I could tell you of many of my hunts that most would consider unsuccessful, because I didn't bring the bacon. Still some of those hunts are burned into my memory as if they were put there by a branding iron, because they were some of the best times I have ever had in the back country!

As Sky says, it would be nice if we could all hunt for the simple pleasure of being on the hunt, but I afraid Sky's, and all outfitter's business would suffer greatly without that tape measure as it stands today. Some call that progress, but I'm not one of those who do! :shakehead:

 

[LouisB]

Hi there guys I must say I can't agree more with most of you the biggest problem in this system is guys who hunt on 800acres of land and call it a game farm and then they promise you that 60 inc kudu bull that everyone is dreaming about.

Absolute nonsense there is no such thing as a 60 inc Kudu bull guaranteed unless it is a canned hunt and personally I am very much against hunting on these small open game farms where you drive to the animal that is on feed and then shoot it and call yourself a hero.

We need to keep in mind thou that not all game farm hunting is canned and easy there are a lot of places out there where hunting is still very much up to luck and skill, and then if you get the 54 inc Kudu bull be happy about it because you worked for him.

 

[Macs B]

Hunting in some places is becoming more like window shopping, with an option to buy... The hunter is one who hunts - and we all know that hunts are not always successful but more than that, is the fact that hunting is a wholesome experience that is only in the blood of a true hunter. It can never be bought or replicated or borrowed. It is REAL!

It seems like I every time I coordinate with a client they all tend to have the same misconceptions of what is required to successfully complete a hunt. In Germany our hunters are booked by the state as far as three years in advance. The standard deal is no less than five 1 x 1 days with a guide followed by unlimited time in the stands in case they can’t connect. 1 x 1 days are supposed to be a week’s worth of hard all day hunting. 99% of my hunters take their trophy during the 1 x 1 days. I consider it a professional embarrassment to have to put a hunter on the stand for additional time because I couldn’t put him on a proper stag.
Too many hunters show up expecting to spend the first half day in the hotel sleeping off the first night out. Once you get them in the field they want a late start followed by a two hour lunch, followed by an early dinner before heading to the bar. It’s next to impossible to get them to understand that the five days are allocated for a reason. We hunt the single largest state revere in the entire country, just over a million hectares. The herds are free ranging and influenced by the mixed farm/forest/military training area terrain. All too often the client assumes that you know which deer he will shoot and where it is at any given time. To try and convince a person that the deer get a vote in all things related to the hunt is next to impossible. Our hunts are specifically target what the German forestry department classifies as a 1A Red Deer Stag. In order to qualify the animal must be 9-12 years old. His rack must meet strenuous guidelines as far as size and structure. He must be determined to be a retiring herd bull no longer as active in the breeding pool. At any given time our herds have 15-30 of these animals, out of population of 7200. Granted we keep good track of where they are but it is not a science. You can imagine the difficulties involved with putting a once a year hunter on to this type of animal. Let alone getting him to shoot it when it does present itself.
My favorite client is a banker from Berlin. He is first and foremost a hunter. He shows up two days early to the hotel, not to drink but to make sure he has time to confirm his zero. He is an avid runner and tries to walk me to death every time we go out. He plans for five additional days on the back side even though he’s never used them. He’s demanding and knows what he wants, and that is fine.

 

[Big5]

My favorite client is a banker from Berlin. He is first and foremost a hunter.

Macs B. . . you nailed it. Of course there is no wonder the Berlin banker is your favorite client. For as you said he is a ‘hunter’ rather than just an opportunity shooter or window shopper. Congratulations to you both as there is little doubt you make a good team in the field.
.

 

[richteb]

As I sit here and read through all these opinions and experiences others have had. I am begining to wonder how hunters (i use the term loosely) would find hunting Sambar deer here in Australia.

For those who do not know much about this deer, let me paint a brief picture. It is a species that has no specific rut, does not grunt, roar, whistle. Only noise it does make is a very loud honk, and this happens as its shifting into high gear after you have alarmed it. It lives in hilly to mountainous country with dense vegetation. Normaly only ventures into farm country at night.

As far as I know there is absolutaly no way (legally) that any ammount of money charged for this species would produce any better results that if hunted for free. This for those who do not know Australia we can do every day of the year.

I would like to see the same people who hunt farmed, half tame animals behind a fence to come and test there so called hunting skills, stamina, dedication, patience and sometimes sanity on this games animal.

 

[AfricaHunting.com]

Sambar Deer (Cervus unicolor)

For those of you who may be unfamiliar with this species, here is a bit of info.

Sambar, also known as sambur, sambhur, Tamil: Kadaththi maan, Assamese: Xor Pohu, is the common name for several large dark brown Asian deer with a sort of mane, particularly for the Indian species (Cervus unicolor).

Sambar deer are an introduced species in both Australia and New Zealand. Sambar were originally introduced into Victoria at Mt Sugarloaf in the 1860s... click here to read more about this species.

Here are a couple pictures of Sambar Deers (Cervus unicolor).

Sambar Deer (Cervus unicolor)

Sambar Deer (Cervus unicolor)

 

[Skyline]

Jerome..........thanks for posting those pictures. The sambar is, IMHO, the top trophy in the South Pacific and if I ever manage to go hunting down under...............free range sambar would be my pick. Next would be Rusa in New Caledonia.

 

[BryceM]

I really pity you outfitters and PH's who have to put up with the prototypical spoiled, overweight, obnoxious, lousy-shot American who books a hunt and shows up with a brand-new magnum and ridiculous expectations. I'm sure a few of them leave upset despite your best efforts to put them on game. I don't think I'd be able to tolerate that myself. I love the area and the animals too much to see them wasted on unappreciative people.

I suppose where there is a demand for "quick & easy" a supply will eventually develop. We have lots of people here in Idaho who set up similar 1-2 thousand acre high-fence feedlots for elk. This really gives a black eye to the industry and the ethics of hunting. Somehow that sort of stuff always manages to make the news too, like when 300 elk get out and start breeding with the local wild critters.

Those sambars look like fun though.

 

[RayAtkinson]

I have no problems with fenced hunting as long as the property is large enough and that too me is about 15,000 acres minimum and depending on the bush which should be reletively thick..Most of So. Africa is such..although most of my RSA Safari are on much larger properties.

But, when you offer a 4 day Sable hunt, its going to be in somebodys back yard, and I want no part of that.

 

[billrquimby]

Ray:

As I said above, length of time needed to collect an animal doesn't necessarily mean the hunt must take place "in somebody's backyard."

My limited experience with hunting sable antelope led me to believe that four days would be ample time for a free-ranging sable-only hunt in a good area, such as the Matetsi of Zimbabwe or the Kafue of Zambia where I took mine.

This would be especially true if the four days were near the end of the season and the PHs have had time to learn where larger bulls are hanging out that year.

Bill Quimby

 

[enysse]

I would have to agree with Bill on his last comment. When you are out in the bush and hunting everyday...you are going to learn where the the best habitat, food, and cover is for that animal and have a pretty good idea where to find them.

I was a lot better hunter when I lived on a dairy farm everyday, because I was always exposed to the wild and what was going on in the world of whitetail hunting in that neck of the woods. Now living in the city, I have to rely on past experiences, good shooting and a little luck to get a whitetail on the ground.

The hunter that hunts in his own backyard, especially if he or she is good... is going to be way ahead of the game....because of the experience and knowledge.

 

[RayAtkinson]

Bill,
I certainly agree 100% with your post..Hope mine wasn't misleading as to the intent..

My only problem concerning fenced and unfenced hunts is you would be surprised how many folks tell me they want an African experience, no fences, they want to walk and hunt the game on its own terms, and the game must have the ability to escape into the vast bush, and so fourth, THEN when they go on a fair chase with no fence hunt and get skunked because they can't keep the pace, it's too hot, too steep, too wet, too cold, they can't see game, they can't shoot, or whatever the reason, it's always my fault, the PHs fault or hell I had one guy blame it on the airlines and the PH for not giving him a days rest prior to the hunt ???..

YOU SIMPLY CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!

 

[richteb]

Bill,
I certainly agree 100% with your post..Hope mine wasn't misleading as to the intent..

My only problem concerning fenced and unfenced hunts is you would be surprised how many folks tell me they want an African experience, no fences, they want to walk and hunt the game on its own terms, and the game must have the ability to escape into the vast bush, and so fourth, THEN when they go on a fair chase with no fence hunt and get skunked because they can't keep the pace, it's too hot, too steep, too wet, too cold, they can't see game, they can't shoot, or whatever the reason, it's always my fault, the PHs fault or hell I had one guy blame it on the airlines and the PH for not giving him a days rest prior to the hunt ???..

YOU SIMPLY CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!!

Ray, what you say is about right, and unfortunatly that is something that I think will never change. Guys and maybe Girls like that read all the hunting books and view the whole thing as a romantic adventure. Unfortunately most are ignorant as to effort that is required to achieve the goal they have set. As a example I had 4 guys due to hunt sambar with us a couple of weeks ago. They arrived about lunch time on Friday. All were very keen and wanted to get into hunting right there and then. So I took them for a short walk with the intention of dropping each of in a suitable location to sit till dark. I guess the guy who had to walk the furtherest would have covered about 1km. About an hour after I had returend to hut all four came walking out of the bush. They promptly packed there gear and left, stating that it was not for them. What to do you do ?

 

[enysse]

I think some people watch a few programs on the outdoor channel, read a book or few magazine article and get the urge to try hunting for that animal. The problem is some people don't have the skills...mentally or physically to handle that hunt. They want the animal on the wall but don't want to put in the time to learn everything to prepare for that adventure.

Like Skyline says about hunting up North in the Wilderness....it takes skills and patience to be successful in the real world. And every day people get more and more spoiled. They can't handle the change from the luxury of everyday life at home to the environment of the hunting world.

Money can't buy success and comfort on some hunts no matter how much you would like it too. The more I get older, I think the mental part is what gets me on most hunts. Most people say missing their family is hard or being away from job. For me it's the costs of hunting. It's hard to get out of my head how much and how many years I have to work to pay for a hunt. Especially when you are unhappy at your job. And everyday the cost of hunting is getting to more and more crazy.

Sorry, to get off the subject. But any hunt...be it fenced or unfenced can be a good adventure if you go into the hunt with a positive attitude and don't have unrealistic expectations of the size the animal you would like to harvest. If the hunt comes of easy be happy, there are plenty of hard hunts. If you have to work hard...that's hunting too...and if you get your animals too...it like the ultimate icing on the cake.

 

[LouisB]

Good remarks enysse I completely agree with you on the matter of going in to a hunt with a positive attitude. I recently had a hunt with some good friends of mine oh and as nature would have it the timing of the whole hunt started on a negative note. It was full moon and this causes the animals to drink at night and it is not very good for bow hunting. However my clients where very positive about it and we took every day as it came. The one thing that will always stand out in my mind is how positive they remained trough out the hunt. The results were not to bad for a 6 day hunt a 56 inc Kudu, 41 inc Gemsbuck and a Dark Giraffe bull were among the highlights.

They truly reminded me that this is why we call it hunting and it is great to hunt with clients like that.
:clapping: