The Cartridge Which Is Loved By Some, Loathed By Many, But Known By All

[Hoss Delgado]

Thank you KR for the nice report and the wonderful old photos.
Controversies are safe with the caliber.
If you ask in the offices of the different National Parks in Africa which DG caliber(class .400 up) they mainly spend on their Game Warden, you won't be surprised by the answer.

"It is reportedly Roy Weatherby's greatest invention (the .460)........"
and yet nobody really shoots her in Africa, except a few tourists .

Foxi , don't discourage him !!!!
Do you have any idea how hard it was for me to get my hands on a .460 WBY
MAG ZKK-602 and three rounds , just so that Mr. Rahman's dream can come true ?
I had to post on five different online chat rooms and FB pages !!
Yeah.... It was HELL trying to find it . No one around here ( Texas ) keeps one of these bad boys around anymore

 

[Red Leg]

Foxi , don't discourage him !!!!
Do you have any idea how hard it was for me to get my hands on a .460 WBY
MAG ZKK-602 and three rounds , just so that Mr. Rahman's dream can come true ?
I had to post on five different online chat rooms and FB pages !!
Yeah.... It was HELL trying to find it . No one around here ( Texas ) keeps one of these bad boys around anymore

Obviously, we have lots of smart people here in Texas!

 

[kurpfalzjäger]

What's going on in Texas ?

This is not a problem in France to find a rifle caliber 460WM , even one of our former presidents had one , by the way , made by the same gunmaker as mine in Strasbourg , and also on a Brevex action.

 

[Hoss Delgado]

"Off-face" is a term for a double rifle or shotgun that no long fits tightly between barrel breeches and action face. The gun will seem to close tightly, but when closed and held up to a light, one can clearly see the thin gap. It is an important check when looking at older guns. Once this occurs, the action begins to loosen fairly quickly. In really bad cases, one can take the forearm off, shake the gun, and feel movement between barrels and action. This can happen over time to any gun, but is usually accelerated by using high pressure loads. Many English guns game guns are shot loose by ignorant or careless owners shooting 70mm 1 1/4 ounce loads through them - or buckshot, for which @Hoss Delgado seems to have a penchant. Most traditional English double rifle calibers were designed to be low-pressure rounds to prevent this sort of damage. The .458, inevitably, will cause accelerated wear to the action.

I have a Blaser S2 double rifle with three sets of barrels - 30-06, 500-416, and .375. It is an amazing rifle that can be used differently than a traditional double (one reason a lot of the outdoor scribes didn't care for it - just not a "proper" double.) They are designed to be used with a scope if desired (standard Blaser mounting system). All my barrels shoot MOA from each barrel and composite groups of 2 - 2.5 inches at 100 meters. With the .375, I have double tapped a buffalo at seventy meters and taken a sable with a frontal presentation at just under 200. Remarkable rifle. Also, because it uses a non-traditional tilting block lock, it is essentially impossible to ever shoot off face.

Joe ,you couldn't have picked a worse time to rub it in my face . I just lost the biggest feral hog l've ever seen last week after shooting it with 00 Buck from my BRNO ZH- 301 ( the one the wife got me )
. Now , Dad's telling me that if l just used my .405 Win on it , it wouldn't have gotten away .

 

[mark-hunter]

I cant belive, in Texas, lone star state, the land of guns, chuck norris, and texas rangers, one of top three - gun owners - 2nd amendment states in US, you can find only three (3) - .460 WBY rounds!?

 

[IvW]

Joe ,you couldn't have picked a worse time to rub it in my face . I just lost the biggest feral hog l've ever seen last week after shooting it with 00 Buck from my BRNO ZH- 301 ( the one the wife got me )
. Now , Dad's telling me that if l just used my .405 Win on it , it wouldn't have gotten away .

I told you use Brenneke slugs not buckshot on bigger things....

Your Dad is right...

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Obviously, we have lots of smart people here in Texas!

Not funny , Joe !
I had to trade 2 boxes of Kynamco .350 Rigby Magnum SP ammo for those 3 bloody .460 rounds and borrowing that gun . And l burnt a quarter tank of gas , driving to go pick it up !

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I told you use Brenneke slugs not buckshot on bigger things....

Your Dad is right...

But IvW , l thought you once wrote here that you still hunt bush pigs with Buck shot ? . Or did you ditch that too ?

 

[Hoss Delgado]

What's going on in Texas ?

This is not a problem in France to find a rifle caliber 460WM , even one of our former presidents had one , by the way , made by the same gunmaker as mine in Strasbourg , and also on a Brevex action.

Kurp , where are you when we need you ? !

 

[Hoss Delgado]

I cant belive, in Texas, lone star state, the land of guns, chuck norris, and texas rangers, one of top three - gun owners - 2nd amendment states in US, you can find only three (3) - .460 WBY rounds!?

Dude , you have no idea . It turns out we can get anything .... except the one thing that Mr. Rahman dreams of trying

 

[mark-hunter]

Hoss, we live in surprising World, obviously!

 

[Foxi]

Hoss, it's not my intention
Here are some gas pressures for comparison (is it also tested in America in "bar"?)
.416 Rem. 4300 bar
.416 Rigby 3250
.460 Weatherby 4.400 bar
.470 NE 2.400 bar !!!
.458 WM 3.800 bar
.577 NE 2.200 !!! bar
9,3x74 R 3.000 bar
Factory loads

 

[kurpfalzjäger]

I cant belive, in Texas, lone star state, the land of guns, chuck norris, and texas rangers, one of top three - gun owners - 2nd amendment states in US, you can find only three (3) - .460 WBY rounds!?

Almost incomprehensible !

The 460WM is in the meantime a european cartridge. Every week a rifle caliber 460WM is offered for sale in Germany.

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

"Off-face" is a term for a double rifle or shotgun that no long fits tightly between barrel breeches and action face. The gun will seem to close tightly, but when closed and held up to a light, one can clearly see the thin gap. It is an important check when looking at older guns. Once this occurs, the action begins to loosen fairly quickly. In really bad cases, one can take the forearm off, shake the gun, and feel movement between barrels and action. This can happen over time to any gun, but is usually accelerated by using high pressure loads. Many English guns game guns are shot loose by ignorant or careless owners shooting 70mm 1 1/4 ounce loads through them - or buckshot, for which @Hoss Delgado seems to have a penchant. Most traditional English double rifle calibers were designed to be low-pressure rounds to prevent this sort of damage. The .458, inevitably, will cause accelerated wear to the action.

I have a Blaser S2 double rifle with three sets of barrels - 30-06, 500-416, and .375. It is an amazing rifle that can be used differently than a traditional double (one reason a lot of the outdoor scribes didn't care for it - just not a "proper" double.) They are designed to be used with a scope if desired (standard Blaser mounting system). All my barrels shoot MOA from each barrel and composite groups of 2 - 2.5 inches at 100 meters. With the .375, I have double tapped a buffalo at seventy meters and taken a sable with a frontal presentation at just under 200. Remarkable rifle. Also, because it uses a non-traditional tilting block lock, it is essentially impossible to ever shoot off face.

Red Leg
I am most appreciative of the very thorough manner in which you have simplified the matter for me to understand. That you so much. In such a case , l do believe that the owners who had the calibre of the double barrel rifles changed from .458 Winchester magnum calibre to something more traditional , did good for the long term benefit of the rifle. I am very curious to know what became of my client’s Holland and Holland double barrel .458 Winchester magnum calibre rifle . Did he eventually have it converted to another calibre ? Did the double barrel rifle eventually get damaged ? I wish l had some way of knowing . Seeing it get fired eleven times , is not a good indication of it’s long term durability . Some times , l even wonder if some of the double barrel rifles listed for selling on the internet might actually by some twist of fate , end up being that very double barrel rifle which l had seen five decades ago.

 

[Foxi]

in my homestate (Bavaria,no Second Amendment) you can get a Bore Snake for the .460

after all

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

But IvW , l thought you once wrote here that you still hunt bush pigs with Buck shot ? . Or did you ditch that too ?

Hoss Delgado
IvW and Manuel Delgado are correct , . In India and Bangladesh , the boars can get up to three hundred pounds live weight. My friend , Captain Newaz recently came over with his 12 bore John Dickson and Son side by side shot-gun to shoot some of the boars which had broken into the tea gardens from Maulvibazaar ( sadly , this happens a few times of the year ) . He shot a boar with a 70 millimeter Eley Alphamax LG ( 8 pellet ) cartridge at a distance of four yards between the two shoulder blades. It dropped , only to spring up again. Newaz had to run after it and shoot it two more times to kill it. He is fortunate that it did not charge at him ( although , he has faced charges before ) . These beasts have large tusks and if they hit you in the legs , they can even rupture a femoral artery .
Use only slug bullets or a good central fire rifle of at least .30 calibre .
Your under lever .405 calibre rifle would do beautifully. It is unfortunate that you left the poor creature to die a lingering death .

 

[Hoss Delgado]

IvW and Manuel Delgado are correct , Hoss. In India and Bangladesh , the boars can get up to three hundred pounds live weight. My friend , Captain Newaz recently came over with his 12 bore John Dickson and Son side by side shot-gun to shoot some of the boars which had broken into the tea gardens from Maulvibazaar ( sadly , this happens a few times of the year ) . He shot a boar with a 70 millimeter Eley Alphamax LG ( 8 pellet ) cartridge at a distance of four yards between the two shoulder blades. It dropped , only to spring up again. Newaz had to run after it and shoot it two more times to kill it. He is fortunate that it did not charge at him ( although , he has faced charges before ) . These beasts have large tusks and if they hit you in the legs , they can even rupture a femoral artery .
Use only slug bullets or a good central fire rifle of at least .30 calibre .
Your under lever .405 calibre rifle would do beautifully. It is unfortunate that you left the poor creature to die a lingering death .

But Mr. Rahman , you killed so many Indian hogs with 0 buck ! I was trying to replicate what you did , but with an O/U

 

[Kawshik Rahman]

But Mr. Rahman , you killed so many Indian hogs with 0 buck ! I was trying to replicate what you did , but with an O/U

Hoss Delgado
Young man , you should be ashamed of yourself . In what part of my accounts did you read me saying that l thought it was a good idea ?
What will you do next ? Go after a Royal Bengal tiger with a shot-gun and SG cartridges ? What will Fernando say ? That l am influencing his grand son in a negative manner .
End this foolishness. Use German slug type projectiles or your beautiful .405 calibre under lever rifle or your .350 Rigby magnum bolt operation rifle or your .375 Holland and Holland magnum bolt operation rifle for ethical and clean killing .

 

[Hoss Delgado]

Hoss Delgado
Young man , you should be ashamed of yourself . In what part of my accounts did you read me saying that l thought it was a good idea ?
What will you do next ? Go after a Royal Bengal tiger with a shot-gun and SG cartridges ? What will Fernando say ? That l am influencing his grand son in a negative manner .
End this foolishness. Use German slug type projectiles or your beautiful .405 calibre under lever rifle or your .350 Rigby magnum bolt operation rifle or your .375 Holland and Holland magnum bolt operation rifle for ethical and clean killing .

. Okay , .405 then !

 

[mark-hunter]

Hoss, What I understand, in other words - you should grow up!