Setting up the adolescent shooter

[steve white]

@WI-2021
I agree with you.
My son loves his Howa espy with the Hogue stock in 308. The stock may not be pretty but it works, is easy cleaned with soapy water and has a good bedding platform.
Bob

A gunsmith friend of mine once told me, "the steel on a Howa is a LOT harder than on a Shilen barrel....if I have to mill some off, the Shilen peels like butter, while the Howa barrel practically pops as the steel comes off. He thought they were good quality.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Ontario Hunter - Ugly, cheap, junky

@rookhawk - Shamefully low quality

I think these are a bit unfair characterizations of the "budget" guns that have been mentioned and have at least to some degree been mostly directed at the Ruger American.

I don't make any grand claims that they are a high end, fine, precision made firearm. But it seems a bit unfair to call them junky and low quality.

It's fair to say that deals like rookhawk found can be had sifting through used high end firearms. But, it's not common, and certainly not enough that if a guy wants to buy a deer rifle for his kid for deer season this year, that he will find a deal like that. Also, a person has to have fairly extensive knowledge of firearms and their values to get that deal. Just about anyone can go pick up one of the often repeated models in this thread and have a really good chance of getting a dependable accurate gun for their kid.

I have a few Ruger Americans, they aren't beauty queens, and they aren't flawless construction. However, they have been shockingly accurate, and so far flawless functioning as well.

The accuracy I have gotten out of them has been sickening at times. I bought them on big sales during the first Trump term before covid when gun prices were absurdly cheap. And there is nothing worse than getting a very expensive rifle that you had high hopes for and it not shooting well, while your bargain bin Ruger American that cost 10X less is eating every brand ammo and repeatedly printing better groups than the expensive gun you were so excited for.

So, for me, yeah, I'd be happy to get one of those guns for a young person for their first rifle. And I have, multiple times already. Unsurprisingly, they shot well, and functioned well for them too.

@Sabre
The same can be said for the Howa 1500.
Not pretty with the Hogue stock but absolutely dependable, extremely accurate and great price.
It's the Weatherby Vanguard without the Weatherby stock.
The beauty of the how is you can put any stock from their range on it.
In Australia the are marketed as dream it build it.
You can pick your action, barrel and calibre.
Then choose your stock from the Howa range
Add scope and mounts of choice
Done.
A mate picked up a Howa barreled action with fluted barrel complete with bottom metal and mag in 30-06 for less than $300 NEW
H has to use a custom cast off stock for hunting and had a spare Weatherby Vanguard stock.
Barrelled action fitted straight in and shot little groups.
What's not to like.
Bob

 

[steve white]

@Sabre
The same can be said for the Howa 1500.
Not pretty with the Hogue stock but absolutely dependable, extremely accurate and great price.
It's the Weatherby Vanguard without the Weatherby stock.
The beauty of the how is you can put any stock from their range on it.
In Australia the are marketed as dream it build it.
You can pick your action, barrel and calibre.
Then choose your stock from the Howa range
Add scope and mounts of choice
Done.
A mate picked up a Howa barreled action with fluted barrel complete with bottom metal and mag in 30-06 for less than $300 NEW
H has to use a custom cast off stock for hunting and had a spare Weatherby Vanguard stock.
Barrelled action fitted straight in and shot little groups.
What's not to like.
Bob

Yeah, and I've got a couple of dandy walnut blanks just crying to be fitted up! Then you have a custom fitted rifle with cast off, the correct cheek rest height and all the rest. (which would cost you a pretty penny to have done...) Of course, I'm quoting DIY.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

@Sabre

A couple of things about your post. First, I never called out the Ruger American by brand, I was just thinking of all of the stuff on the retail rack at Cabelas. I find them all low quality. Savage, Remington, Browning. I can elaborate if you want the thread to drift into why these are terrible guns.

But drift on back into the Cabelas Gun Library? Yeah, you'll find a German made Mauser 98 that was born as a sporter, not sporterized, in some pedestrian-not-collectible caliber like 8x57 or 30-06 for a pittance. That is tangibly a very good quality gun that no one will "outgrow". (if made new today to the same standards, it would be a $10,000 rifle)

The other comment is obsession with accuracy. I've never found a vintage or antique gun that wouldn't shoot excellently (1.5" groups at 100 yards or better) with minor fussing. Yes, even those with a bit of throat erosion. What the vintage guns do very well is feed/not jam/not break. They also have true dimensions for mounting a scope, a serviceable trigger, and infinite replacement parts that can be had for next to nothing. (springs, followers, etc.)

Your point may be valid that it takes some consumer understanding to find a good value, but the point was about teaching children hunting and that has to start with teaching them the value of a dollar and to make good long-term decisions. Anyone reading this can learn to discern good quality guns and pass that info on to younger people, rather than fall for overhyped marketing and low quality.

@rookhawk
The BEST way to turn a kid off any sport is to buy them inferior equipment. Doesn't matter if it's football, baseball,fishing, hunting or whatever.
For a free extra dollars you can get stuff that will work properly.
If'n you wouldn't use it why give it to our kids.

There are definitely some budget items out there that are great value for money that are often overlooked. Take the Stevens 200 for example. A very budget friendly firearm. People often overlooked it as junk BUT its a sleeping swan.
Made by Savage using the time proven 110 action, good quality Savage barrel and as accurate as any high end rifle.
CPAP trigger but easy fix with a Timney or rifle BASIX trigger.
The stock is just a plain grey synthetic but they would be one of the most comfortable stocks I have ever used.
Yes there are some crappy budget rifles out there but with a bit of knowledge you can sort the shit from the clay.
I agree there are some higher end beautiful rifles out there that you can get for a song but you need to know your stuff and be patient.
Bob

 

[rookhawk]

@rookhawk
The BEST way to turn a kid off any sport is to buy them inferior equipment. Doesn't matter if it's football, baseball,fishing, hunting or whatever.
For a free extra dollars you can get stuff that will work properly.
If'n you wouldn't use it why give it to our kids.

There are definitely some budget items out there that are great value for money that are often overlooked. Take the Stevens 200 for example. A very budget friendly firearm. People often overlooked it as junk BUT its a sleeping swan.
Made by Savage using the time proven 110 action, good quality Savage barrel and as accurate as any high end rifle.
CPAP trigger but easy fix with a Timney or rifle BASIX trigger.
The stock is just a plain grey synthetic but they would be one of the most comfortable stocks I have ever used.
Yes there are some crappy budget rifles out there but with a bit of knowledge you can sort the shit from the clay.
I agree there are some higher end beautiful rifles out there that you can get for a song but you need to know your stuff and be patient.
Bob

I completely agree with the entire sentiment. We always found the kids in little league struggling with bad baseball equipment. We'd buy used gloves in the $175-$400 MSRP range at goodwill or garage sales. (for very little) We'd then recondition them and re-lace them for a total cost basis of $40-75. Wouldn't you know it, the kids actually could hold on to balls rather than using plastic gloves that had no "pocket".

I completely agree with your parallels in rifles. I'm just a bit biased towards Mausers and their clones. We might pay a bit more, but they are real workhorses that are not something that will be outgrown.

@Art Lambart II is a great example of a super-grandpa. I think he found former military 6.5x55 Swedish mausers for all his grand kids and sporterized them. That is a wonderful, ultra high quality weapon that you won't age out of using. If such rifles were made to those standards today, brand new they'd be $5000+...he was paying less than a grand.

 

[steve white]

I completely agree with the entire sentiment. We always found the kids in little league struggling with bad baseball equipment. We'd buy used gloves in the $175-$400 MSRP range at goodwill or garage sales. (for very little) We'd then recondition them and re-lace them for a total cost basis of $40-75. Wouldn't you know it, the kids actually could hold on to balls rather than using plastic gloves that had no "pocket".

I completely agree with your parallels in rifles. I'm just a bit biased towards Mausers and their clones. We might pay a bit more, but they are real workhorses that are not something that will be outgrown.

@Art Lambart II is a great example of a super-grandpa. I think he found former military 6.5x55 Swedish mausers for all his grand kids and sporterized them. That is a wonderful, ultra high quality weapon that you won't age out of using. If such rifles were made to those standards today, brand new they'd be $5000+...he was paying less than a grand.

I've seen some military Mausers that were in stellar condition! Unbelievable buys.