Sable and Roan

[Cme1983]

To support the inquiry, and the outfitter sponsor:
In my country of Croatia, an area can get registered as hunting area if it is 1000 hectars or more (2472 Acres or more)
4000 acres is fine size. There is nothing wrong in the clients inquiry, and nothing wrong with outfitters offer.

Correct, but in Africa how many game animals are going to be in that 4,000 acres? It’s no different than a high fenced hunt here in Texas. I believe that 4k acres is too small to get a genuine African hunting experience. It’s the guys first time over, he needs to hear the good and bad to make an educated decision. I actually believe high fenced operations have their place for providing and enhancing genetics. If you are looking to check a box for the record book this is as cheap as it gets for those two species.

 

[mark-hunter]

Correct, but in Africa how many game animals are going to be in that 4,000 acres?

With numerous species I have no idea.
My measuring stick (as wrong as it may be) is our local European game management practices.
For an area of about 5.000 hectares (12.355 Acres) free roaming and no fences at all, annual quota is about 130 heads of game (red deer, roe deer, and boar) with mediocre trophies, females and males mixed 1-1.
That is three species. And we get one or two tags per year for bear.
But European game is not the same as African game.

Record book trophies, with guarantee (sable, or roan, or other)- can be achieved only in the fence.
Other way is life time dedication, $$$$$$ spent, numerous trips to wild areas, and no guarantee at all that this will be collected.
African experience is one thing, and this is another thing. But what is the definition of African experience?

Some people have said: the last 200 meters of stalking is the same in fence or out of the fence.
It would be hard to make the difference one from another from that perspective.

Hundred years ago millions of plains game moved across the Savanah, in great migrations.
This is maybe African experience, then.
The closest thing today is high density of animals in a fence. Does this count as African experience?

Or go to wilderness areas, where game density today is much less, daily rates much higher, and trophy of record book size not guaranteed.

Safari of yesteryear was up to three months long, full bag accounted, but today usually not much longer from 28 days, and average safari is one week up to two weeks.

Things change.

 

[Cme1983]

Yes sir, I agree. Everyone has the ability to find a hunt that fits their needs.

 

[ActionBob]

Ain't no small fence areas in Africa. Stateside exotic ranches, yeah, if you think 6000 acres are small areas, but I get your point. It's no fun shooting real animals like a carnival shooting gallery.

I hunted a fenced operation in the Karoo that was 75,000 acres. We drove in one gate and 121 kilometers later, after the rather green PH got lost, we drove out another gate.

However when we drove in the first gate. I spotted a massive sable. The pressure was on to shoot it. I noticed the fence was different. Upon more questions and me demanding to look around a bit... thay sable was probably in 10 acres that was fenced off in a corner. Maybe less. The obvious strategy was brag about the huge property and confidently drive through this little paddock before going through a second gate into the real hunting area.

I was on another 20,000 acre property hunting Springbok. We went to the grand colonial house for lunch and there was a huge sable bull in a pen behind the barn.

@greeneduckhead1 My wife shot a 42.5" sable in the wilds of Tanzania on a concession of some 650,000 acres and a few days later in an area as far from camp as we ever got in 3 weeks, I spotted another estimated at 44" of course our quota was used up. I got a very nice Roan on that hunt but not 30". If you want both on a truly wild hunt. Tanzania is your place. But plan a full bag 21 day hunt. Break out $100k plus as you may as well hunt a leopard and 3 or 4 buffalo plus numerous other species as ling as you are there I'm not sure if Sable and Roan are available on the 10 day license. Roan are not plentiful there so 10 days might be cutting it short.

@spike.t has outstanding sable on his 8000 acres fenced on 3 sides with a major river on the unfenced side. Probably the best opportunity at something close to a 48" sable while being a hunt and not shooting it out of a pen.
Edit; sorry Mike just saw you had already responded.

Last year we hunted a large property in Limpopo with sable and Roan but nothing that big. A severe drought was going on and those critters were being fed so if you parked the truck the Roan would walk up looking for hay. Large property but the biggest challenge a PH will have is getting you to shoot before the critter walks up to stick his head in the truck. Now Duiker and Steenbok were still challenging

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

The OP did not want a small fenced area. That’s exactly what this hunt is. It’s the opposite of a hunt…it’s a shoot.

@Cme1983 you are certainly entitled to your opinion. You clearly think 4000 acres is a small fenced area. The OP may or may not agree with you. That's your opinion, but it's not necessarily the consensus or the truth. Would I hunt on a 4000 acre property in RSA? Depends. I've hunted 880,000 acre property in Zim (BVC) and a 2000 acre property in RSA and everything in between in several other countries. A 2000 acre property (about 1 mile by 3 miles) in Free State was definitely too small.

 

[Cme1983]

I would consider both the BVC and Save to be free range even though there are fences. I don’t think we are that far off in our thinking….20,000 acres would be a much different experience…but in this situation if you are asking for the top 1% of the 2 most desirable trophies in Africa then there is no way they aren’t pen raised. That’s too big of an investment and potential revenue to allow nature to takes it course and it get hurt or killed in a fight with another animal. So on 4,000 acres I don’t believe it would be much of a hunt. I am personally a fan of the way @spike.t has a fenced property that is open to the river.

 

[Elite Hunting Outfitters]

Thanks for the offer but my point was that you are hunting animals in a small enclosed area. Do they have names and ear tags as well?

You're welcome!!

I guess I can understand what you’re trying to say, but I think your point is missed, and perspective of small is skewed.

By no means am I saying my property is the largest out there but if 4000 acres is small, what do you consider a medium sized property or even a large sized property?

Yes all species of game on my property have names and they can be found on my price list.

Yes, all game animals taken on my property will have tags. We’ve never put a tag in the ear of one, normally the tags are secured to the horns just prior to being salted and sent to the taxidermist.

 

[mark-hunter]

Great answer!

 

[towserthemouser]

I want to add a few thoughts about hunting these animals in wide open, wild areas. First, the hunt matters way more than the size on a truly wild, open area with no fences at all.

Sable - there are very few places where one can have a reasonable expectation to see, let alone kill, a sable of 45” or greater. The Kafue region of Zambia May be the single best place, but Matetsi in Zimbabwe and western Tanzania are the two other regions that come to mind. I’ve got 41” (Matetsi 3) 42” (Mlele South, western Tanzania) and 45” sable (Deka, Zimbabwe) and as far as I’m concerned they’re all excellent specimens. I’ve seen exactly 2 sable we thought would go 48” or better, one was on the Selinda block in Botswana in 1989 and the other was on Deka in 1983. We thought the Deka bull might go 49” and we almost got him killed but in the end shot the 45” bull. If I was going to personally attempt a bull above 45” I’d do it in the Kafue region, probably with Johnny DuPlooy or Fico Vidale.

Roan - There are even fewer places where one can hunt free ranging Roan and not many of those can produce an upper 20’s bull. You might find such a bull on some of Zambia’s Luangwa Valley blocks, but I doubt it. If I’m not mistaken most Zambian Roan shot top out in the mid-20’s. The only other countries I’m aware of where you can hunt wild, non-fenced roan are Tanzania and Cameroon. I’m not even considering what Zim might produce since there are only a few permits in the entire country. I know western Tanzania can produce big roan as a friend shot a 29” bull on Mlele South in 2021, I held the skull and it was a huge roan. There are a handful of western Tanzanian blocks where good Roan exist and some of those blocks, like Mlele, hold both species. I killed a 42” sable on Mlele and my friend killed a bigger sable and that monster roan. I saw both species on my hunt. But, if I’m going on a hunt specifically for a big Roan, I’m going to Cameroon. Cameroon, on the right blocks, has lots of roan. A year ago, we hunted hard for a big roan there and found what we thought might be a 27” bull, but couldn’t get him killed. I’m probably going to go back in 2027 for Roan & Buffalo, but will hunt a different block with a different company than where I hunted in 2024. And if I can find a 26-27” Roan I won’t be holding out for bigger.

That’s my unsolicited .02 worth on those two species.

@DLSJR this is great information and I appreciate you sharing it.

I've held a fascination for sable ever since seeing a magnificent "chess piece" mount of one in a high-end gun store many years ago. I've recently made an agreement with @spike.t to hunt them at Takeri, in late October this year. I know there are some fences involved, but it's a big area, and in it's in their historic range, and literally everyone on this forum has great things to say about Takeri, so I am super excited about it.

To the contrary, I've never fixated that much on Roan, for whatever reason. I know they're a very large antelope in the horse antelope family, and they have similar curving horns, although shorter and maybe thicker than sable. I know a lot of folks really like that strawberry roan color that they have. I know they are even more sparsely distributed than sable. And I know they're expensive!

I'd love to know what's different about them as compared to sable, and why they appeal to you to hunt. I want to learn more!

 

[mark-hunter]

Another funny part: running now the 3rd page on this topic, 50 posts so far, and OP had only two posts..... and no further comments from him, looks like disappearing act.

 

[LJ SAFARIS]

Hi. I am new to forum and am appreciative of all input. I am looking for offers for a sable/roan combo hunt. I would like 48 inch plus sable and 30 inch roan. I am trying to keep shipping and taxidermy cost down for my first trip.

Not interested in small fenced areas.

Thank you.

Hi Sir

We can put something together for you on a 115 000 acre property. Like other said it will be pricey but we can definitely put it together.
Please send us an email at ljsafaris@gmail.com or you can send me a WhatsApp on +27 83 3939 253

Kind Regards
Juan Stander

 

[spike.t]

Another funny part: running now the 3rd page on this topic, 50 posts so far, and OP had only two posts..... and no further comments from him, looks like disappearing act.

Thought similar...checked and he been on site today...

 

[greeneduckhead1]

Not disappearing. Just don't like controversy. Im picking outfitter that matches my wants. They are out there.

 

[mark-hunter]

Not disappearing. Just don't like controversy. Im picking outfitter that matches my wants. They are out there.

Follow the dream and dont worry! Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!

 

[375 Ruger Fan]

I am personally a fan of the way @spike.t has a fenced property that is open to the river.

OK, we can agree on this. I have hunted with @spike.t and his property is real hunting for sure. Sable 40-45 inch available in a real hunting environment.