Rigby 458 Win Mag

[CoElkHunter]

Nice post Pascal! I think your last question is what I was getting at replying to @Major Khan
As a non collector of firearms and not really giving a damn if I can show my friends a Rigby, I would personally take the Dakota, AHR or the Caprivi as I prefer all the of actions to the Sako(not hating on Sako) but if I had more disposable income sitting around, this rifle would have came home with me just for the hell of it. Like @tarbe always tells me, “You can’t have them all buddy”

Tarbe IS a visionary! Kinda like Yoda? Very wise and knowledgeable. Maybe he’s not really from this world? The Rem .416 he had with the camo stock may prove this? Wish I would have bought it! Ha! Ha!

 

[Major Khan]

Typical example of Rigby work using whatever long action they could find during the period from 1939 and 2015 when Mauser did not manufacture magnum length actions.

The actions Rigby used at the time were:

1- the stock of Mauser actions they had in house at the beginning of WW II (this apparently kept them busy for a few decades up to the 1970's or early 1980's);
2- Mauser actions salvaged from used rifles of lesser commission specifically purchased by Rigby or clients as action donors (this was an option all the way into the 2000's);
3- CZ ZKK 602 actions (this was apparently the most common solution starting in the 1980's);
4- Sako long actions (very few since they miss the "magical" CRF function);
5- a sprinkling of other actions (p14 Enfield being a classic among others, whether being modified to cock on opening or not).​

I for one would be fascinated to know how many rifles Rigby built from 1945 to 2015 (hint: probably nowhere near as many as some would think), and how many were built on which actions (hint: I would think that most people who wanted a Rigby wanted it on a Mauser action, regardless of how much it cost to get one)...

Valuation of non-Mauser Rigby's is quite an interesting exercise, as a Rigby on anything else than a Mauser, or at least a Mauser-type magnum length action, seems sort of a belle without some of the expected physical attributes.

If you could not afford a $10,000 Rigby/Mauser (new or vintage), would you rather own a $9,000 Dakota 76, or a $6,000 Sako Rigby, or a $3,000 to 5,000 AHR CZ 550 (upgrade #1 to #3), or a $3,000 Kimber Caprivi, or a $1,500 Winchester 70 Safari, etc.

My own take on all of this is that if I were buying a Rigby DG rifle it would be an emotional purchase of a nostalgic and romantic symbol. It could only be a Rigby of London ... on a Mauser magnum length action ... and chambered in .416 Rigby. I would have ZERO interest in a California Rigby, or a Sako Rigby, or even a CZ Rigby (from me that is saying a lot LOL), or even a Mauser Rigby in .458... It is either the real stuff... or it is not...

I do believe that you may be on to some thing , One Day . A younger member of Dacca Rifle Club had showed me this John Rigby & Co. catalog page , from 1974 .

Observe how all of the bolt rifles are listed as having “ Mauser Type “ actions , instead of “ Mauser 98 “ actions ... Which is what was written in all of the pre 2nd World War catalogs . They indeed , were using what ever receivers that they could lay their hands on .

 

[ActionBob]

@ActionBob needs that rifle, very badly.....

You don't actually think Cody and I did not discuss it back then do you?

 

[tarbe]

Maybe he’s not really from this world?

I am definitely NOT of this world!

 

[ActionBob]

Nice post Pascal! I think your last question is what I was getting at replying to @Major Khan
As a non collector of firearms and not really giving a damn if I can show my friends a Rigby, I would personally take the Dakota, AHR or the Caprivi as I prefer all the of actions to the Sako(not hating on Sako) but if I had more disposable income sitting around, this rifle would have came home with me just for the hell of it. Like @tarbe always tells me, “You can’t have them all buddy”

I thought Tim was scolding you about women, not guns

 

[Accidental Villain]

Typical example of Rigby work using whatever long action they could find during the period from 1939 and 2015 when Mauser did not manufacture magnum length actions.

The actions Rigby used at the time were:

1- the stock of Mauser actions they had in house at the beginning of WW II (this apparently kept them busy for a few decades up to the 1970's or early 1980's);
2- Mauser actions salvaged from used rifles of lesser commission specifically purchased by Rigby or clients as action donors (this was an option all the way into the 2000's);
3- CZ ZKK 602 actions (this was apparently the most common solution starting in the 1980's);
4- Sako long actions (very few since they miss the "magical" CRF function);
5- a sprinkling of other actions (p14 Enfield being a classic among others, whether being modified to cock on opening or not).​

I for one would be fascinated to know how many rifles Rigby built from 1945 to 2015 (hint: probably nowhere near as many as some would think), and how many were built on which actions (hint: I would think that most people who wanted a Rigby wanted it on a Mauser action, regardless of how much it cost to get one)...

Valuation of non-Mauser Rigby's is quite an interesting exercise, as a Rigby on anything else than a Mauser, or at least a Mauser-type magnum length action, seems sort of a belle without some of the expected physical attributes.

If you could not afford a $10,000 Rigby/Mauser (new or vintage), would you rather own a $9,000 Dakota 76, or a $6,000 Sako Rigby, or a $3,000 to 5,000 AHR CZ 550 (upgrade #1 to #3), or a $3,000 Kimber Caprivi, or a $1,500 Winchester 70 Safari, etc.

My own take on all of this is that if I were buying a Rigby DG rifle it would be an emotional purchase of a nostalgic and romantic symbol. It could only be a Rigby of London ... on a Mauser magnum length action ... and chambered in .416 Rigby. I would have ZERO interest in a California Rigby, or a Sako Rigby, or even a CZ Rigby (from me that is saying a lot LOL), or even a Mauser Rigby in .458... It is either the real stuff... or it is not...

Hi

I must correct one thing.
From sometime in the fifties Rigby started using BREWEX actions and used them til they where no longer available sometimes in the sixties.
The Brewex action is as I`ve learned built on the original machinery from the Oberndorf factory transported to France. Anyways, the Brewex is one of the very best Mauser actions ever built. I`ve seen Rigbys with both Double/Single square bridge and Brewex. Don`t ask me which one I think are the best...as I love the original Oberndorf. The steel on the Brewex is outta this word.

Production of the 602 started in 1967 but i cannot say when Rigby started using them.
As a comparison, sometime in the seventies Holland & Holland sold several houndred rifles built by Carl Gustav and I believe Sako with London proof marks and probably regulated.
This Sako in question does not have a Rigby stock. Whats interesting is that it has the great signature Rigby quarter rib. In my mind the very best open sight for a DG bolt action. This is an expensive feature. Interesting rifle that Sako.

 

[bruce moulds]

i would prefer the pump action in the background.
or even one of the trapdoors.
bruce.

 

[Royal27]

You don't actually think Cody and I did not discuss it back then do you?

Of course I do.

You obviously made the wrong decision though.

 

[Forrest Halley]

Come on Forrest, buy it and put a Limbsaver or Pachmeyer pad on it! I’ll bet then the recoil would be less than your #1 Lott! Ha! Ha!

For the love of the baby that rolled the rock...you're probably right, but NO! I don't need another rifle right now.

 

[Bullthrower338]

French made BREVEX action?

 

[Major Khan]

French made BREVEX action?

@Kawshik Rahman ’s favorite action of ALL time , Cody .

 

[Bullthrower338]

@Kawshik Rahman ’s favorite action of ALL time , Cody .

A very fine action for sure, prices reflect the quality!

 

[Accidental Villain]

French made BREVEX action?

Yes, the BREVEX action is French made and after what I have from a reliable source are made on the original machinery from Mauserwerke Oberndorf that was moved after the war.

 

[John Telford]

What other gems does this store have?

 

[Bullthrower338]

What other gems does this store have?

Pretty decent selection of goodies, couple nice colts, not much for big bores. Has a Merkel double in 375 and a 460 Wby out of the same estate

 

[Major Khan]

I would have assumed that if a Sako action would have been used by Rigby it would have been in the capacity that the Belgium Browning Safaris were in the smaller calibers

Cody , would you happen to know if this rifle is a control round feed action ? I understand that modern Sako rifles are push feed actions .

 

[sierraone]

I am an accumulator of firearms rather than a collector.

Yes you are...I can attest to that! I make an effort, but can't even come close.

 

[Bullthrower338]

Cody , would you happen to know if this rifle is a control round feed action ? I understand that modern Sako rifles are push feed actions .

Good Morning Major,
I do not know enough about Sako actions to answer you intellectually. This action has a long mauser type claw style extractor but this alone does not make a rifle CRF by itself. The only Sako action rifles that I have are a couple Tikka rifles and Browning Belgium Safari built on the small push feed Sako. Hopefully someone will come along and tell us if this action is true CRF or if it is more similar to the Ruger push feed with the claw extractor. When I was looking at it I wondered the same thing because to my eye it looks CRF-ish but definitely not what I’m used to.
Cheers,
Cody

 

[One Day...]

Hi
I must correct one thing.
From sometime in the fifties Rigby started using BREWEX actions and used them til they where no longer available sometimes in the sixties...

I am not sure "correct one thing" is the appropriate choice of words Accidental Villain, I DID say: "5- a sprinkling of other actions."

This "sprinkling of other actions" I was mentioning in my original post certainly includes the Brevex, and others, as Rigby has built, and continue to build, bespoke rifles of about any persuasion... I have personally seen pictures of Rigby rifles built on P14 Enfield action, M1917 Enfield action, M1903 Springfield action, Browning post WW II action, Sako action, ZKK / CZ action, Brevex action, and I believe Bauska BBK action, not to mention, of course, salvaged K98 military actions with the front ramp machined away to lengthen the magazine well opening to .375 H&H and even .416 Rigby length. Maybe the most famous .416 Rigby of all, Harry Selby's .416 Rigby, was built on a K98 standard length military action...

Considering the constant scarcity of the Brevex throughout its production, I do not know how many rifles Rigby built on it, but I would not think it would be a large number...

I agree with the opinion expressed by Major Khan that the Brevex action is indeed one of the very, very best "Mauser" action ever produced

For those interested, as I posted some time ago in https://www.africahunting.com/threa...rol-round-feed-rifle.53972/page-2#post-593109

Brevex, a short history...

In 1945, French troops participated to the invasion of Germany and occupied the Mauser factory in Oberndorf. Mauser machinery was disassembled and confiscated by France as war damages compensation and transferred to Suresnes in the suburbs of Paris to the Brevex company. Under Chief Engineer Polonsky, Brevex manufactured standard K98 rifles that were issued to French troops in Indochina in the immediate after WWII years, approximately from 1946 to 1950.

After Brevex shifted briefly the production of military rifles to under-license Garand, and when the French national arsenals resumed mass production with the MAS 1949 (followed by the MAS 49/56, both very solid semi auto, full caliber, combat rifles), Brevex started producing long and magnum length actions in 1955 for the civilian market. These Brevex actions were 99% pure Mauser actions, produced on original Mauser machine tools, with a few distinctive Polonsky-patented touches. For example, Brevex actions are instantly recognizable because (to the best of my knowledge) they are the only ones to have a vent hole drilled on the left side of the front bridge, and the shape of their trigger guard is unique with a slanted front side.

Brevex never made full rifles (to the best of my knowledge), but in the 1950's, 1960's, etc. when Mauser had entirely abandoned the 98 action as obsolete, and when the ZKK/CZ actions were locked behind the iron curtain, the Brevex actions were the only CRF actions available for .416 Rigby length cartridge. A number of makers (including Rigby in London) used standard length military actions, of which they removed about half the length of the feeding ramp to lengthen the magazine well (Harry Selby's famed .416 Rigby was one of these); other custom makers actually cut two standard length actions to weld a long one together, etc. but Brevex was the real deal and the only deal. For example, Jack O'Connor's .416 Rigby was built on a Brevex action.

About 5,000 Brevex actions in two lengths (long and magnum) were made before production ended, I am not sure exactly when, but I believe around 1965. In 1998 a gun shop in Paris, Armes Batille, acquired the trade name and patent and offered for a while Brevex rifles assembled by Gunsmith Arnaud Lafont, but I have no idea where they were built and by whom. I doubt very much that the Mauser machine tools confiscated in 1945 and used by Brevex still exist... I have not heard of these "new" Brevex for the last 20 years, so I suspect that the effort fizzled.

A few Brevex actions, and custom rifles built on Brevex actions come for sale with relative regularity in the US. Right now there are two actions for sale on Guns International, one with .375 bolt face and one with .416 Rigby bolt face for $2,795 and $2,895 respectively.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...-416-rigby-mauser-action.cfm?gun_id=101294001

Champlin Firearms offer a nice Brevex-based rifle by George Hoenig:

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx?tabid=30&ctl=GunsDetails&mid=409&StyleID=2&GunID=2838

Actually, Jack O’Connor’s personal .416 Rigby Magnum was built on a Brevex Magnum Mauser (http://sportsmanslegacy.com/firearm...umentation-field-photos-burgess-metal-brevex/)

 

[spike.t]

They were made when David marx was the owner of Rigbys...they were sent to paul whose company is J Roberts and son in the white to finish off. This was before he bought rigbys. From what he said they are more for a collector than for hunting with ,as from what I recall he said they could be issues with their feeding...could be wrong as line from here to uk wasn't great..