Practice Rifle

[Shootist43]

I used a bolt actioned Marlin in 17HMR. I found it more accurate than my 22(s) especially at distance.

 

[buffybr]

Most of my hunting rifles are bolt action with stocks that I either made or altered so that they all have the same length of pull and the same feel. They also have similar Leupold CDS scopes.

A little over 10 years ago I bought a Weatherby Vanguard chambered in .300 Wby. That rifle quickly became my favorite hunting rifle, but its not the best rifle for quantity and inexpensive practice and plinking.

So I bought two more vanguards, a .223 and a .308 Win. I altered their stocks to the same lop as my .300 Wby and other hunting rifles, and I take them to the range every week to practice shooting field positions at our steel plates from 100 to 430 yards.

My Remington 541-T .22 rifle has the same length of pull as my hunting rifles, and I recently put another Leupold CDS scope on it for very cheap practice at steel plates from 50 to 200 yards.

 

[shootist~]

I don't know how you can control the recoil of a weapon by training with a weapon that hardly has one.

I take the planned hunting rifle (currently a 9.3x62) to the range almost every time. The practice rifles (22 & 308) just get the bulk of the volume (50 to 75 rounds combined/day for all three). The key is to rotate thru several strings with each. I start with the 9.3 - standing from the sticks. Almost never from the bench with anything.

 

[Safari Dave]

I shoot about 200 rounds/month with a .22 LR in competition and practice.

No doubt, it helps with the fundamentals with even provides an element of pressure during competition.


However, IME, it is not a substitute for shooting something with significant recoil. Even though I shoot significantly more than the average person (I also shoot on the job). I do succumb to flinching when my brain knows that I am about to be kicked very hard when I shoot heavy-recoiling rifles at the range.


A drill, where a buddy may or may not hand you a loaded heavy-recoiling rifle, to me is great practice at the range. If you flinch when you pull the trigger, you know that you need to keep practicing.


Fortunately (for me, at least), I hardly ever flinch when shooting at game for some reason. I don't feel the recoil and I don't even hear the discharge. My ears would ring for a week with a shot at the range with no protection, but they have never rang when shooting at an animal.

Doesn't even make sense to me...




It's somewhat different for me with archery. I can shoot a lightweight traditional bow all day long at the range and shoot a pretty impressive score. With a hunting bow of 45 pound or more, I get "target-panic" and release immediately when the picture gets correct, even if I'm not at full-draw.


Joel Turner (Google his name or "Shot-IQ") has come up; with a method to overcome this. It also works with rifles. I've worked with him a couple of times in person, and if you can comprehend his methodology, it can help anyone become a much better shooter.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I want to get a bolt action practice rifle to use to tune up for a trip next year. This would be in addition to practicing with the rifle or rifles I plan to take with me. I want to get used to taking quick shots as well as working the bolt on and off sticks.

With the cost of ammo being what it is, I thought a bolt action .22 like the Ruger American Rimfire might work. The downside is that the bolt throw on it is very short as .22LR is a fairly short cartridge. The cost of this rifle would be in the $350-375 range new.

Then as an alternative, I thought about a bolt action rifle in either .223 or 7.62x39. It would have a bolt throw closer to the rifles I'm taking. Something like a Savage Axis in .223 probably wouldn't cost much more than the Ruger Rimfire rifle. It could even be less if I could find a cheap used rifle.

I have a ton of .223 and 7.62x39 ammo put away as I do with the .22LR. I had the advantage of buying before the run on ammo when it was cheap and just setting it aside.

I am open to suggestions as well as thoughts on the .223 vs the .22LR.

Thanks for the help.

@jpr9954
Doesn't matter the kenght of the bolt throw or the power of the rifle.
It is to do with developing muscle memory. If you short stroke a 22lr you still get a jam that has to be cleared..
I taught my son by teaching him field positions first. After that it was reactive targets at various distances and different sizes. He started of standing and I would call the target number and position. He never knew what was next. He always started with an unloaded rifle and had to assume the called position load and fire. He got to the stage I could call any target at say 50 yards and he could assume the required position load the rifle, acquire the target and hit it in 5 seconds or less. He could go from standing to sitting or prone and hit a 4 to 6 inch target at 100 yards before you knew what was happening.. he still has a bit of trouble off hand at times but he's not bad
Bob

 

[uthisha]

I agree with the comments about developing 'muscle memory', but I think a better term is 'programming.

In a stressful situation, you will default your programming. So anything that builds the right programs for the scenarios you may encounter is good. Live fire, dry fire, visualization, and even just thinking about it.

For myself, I did a lot of dry firing and visualization before my first safari. Shooting is my hobby and I do a lot of it. But I lived in a city at the time, and options were limited.

I shot my .375 and .416 at the 'out of town' rifle range to get them sorted out and sighted in. A few dozen rounds plus or minus.

I bought a Ruger M77 bolt-action 22LR (similar manual of arms for my Winchester Model 70) and did some live fire training at the local indoor range.

However, I did probably 20x time dry fire to live fire.

When I went on my first plains game safari my my gun handling was excellent (the PH gave me unsolicited kudos).

Since then I have done two DG safaris, and still do what I'm programmed to do.

Later, I used the same Ruger M77 to train my wife on fundamentals (50 rounds/day for several hundred rounds), and a fair amount of dry fire with her Model 70 .375H&H. She only shot her Model 70 .375H&H once (to sight-in) before the hunt.
She took her first big game animal, a Cape Buff, with a shot in the boiler room from that .375H&H. She went on to take several more trophies during that, and subsequent safaris. The adrenaline of the hunt mitigates much of the recoil.
My wife still declines to practice with her .375H&H because it's so unpleasant for her to shoot, but she will hunt with it (because the recoil is both (a) necessary, and (b) she will be amp'd up so less unpleasant)

Hope this is helpful.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

It all depends on what you want to practice.

We are here on the Africa Hunting Forum, and immediately one think of a hunt in Africa. To practice shooting with a suitable rifle for this purpose, you should do it with a different caliber than with an 22LR, 223 or 7,62x39 cartridge.

@grand veneur
Why.
No use stepping up to bigger than a 22lr until you get the basics right. Stance/ position,hold, trigger control and follow thru. To me it's about training mind and body first. Once that is accomplished it shouldn't matter what rifle you use you will quickly adapt to it as your mind and body are conditioned.
After the basics are mastered the next step is managing recoil.
You wouldn't start a new shooter with a 30-06 you start small and work up.
Shooting proficiency comes from practice, if you can't afford the ammo you can't practice, can't practice may as well thro rocks at game you will get the same results.

I've been shooting nigh on 60 years on and off and still get great pleasure out of using my 22lr for practice. It's cheap to use and I ain't getting beat up by recoil and helps maintain my skill level. As I get older with more issues I find shooting off hand difficult and prone almost impossible so I practice different positions and use different aids like stick or long bipods. Using a 22lr allows me to get the practice I need a lot quicker with less strain on the wallet.
Just my thoughts.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I don't know how you can control the recoil of a weapon by training with a weapon that hardly has one.

@grand veneur
You work up to it. No use learning to control recoil if you can't shoot properly first.
You could do ALL your practice with a low recoil rifle and finish what you have practiced with your hunting rifle.
Usually if you are practising you are just trying to keep your skill levels up and can already handle the recoil of your hunting rifle unless you are a new shooter.
Bob

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

@grand veneur
You work up to it. No use learning to control recoil if you can't shoot properly first.
You could do ALL your practice with a low recoil rifle and finish what you have practiced with your hunting rifle.
Usually if you are practising you are just trying to keep your skill levels up and can already handle the recoil of your hunting rifle unless you are a new shooter.
Bob

Agree 100% !!!

The reassuring push of recoil against ones shoulder is not conducive to accuracy.
Recoil is even more so not conducive to mastering the fundamentals of marksmanship.
If one reviews the winners of the NRA and CMP 1000 yard matches, there will not be any .30 magnums. The smaller bores dominate partly because 1000 yards is a mental match against the wind. Less recoil results in more concentration after 15 or so shots.

When I started shooting a 416 Rem and 458 Win my body was tense. Sometime into my big bore load development and practice shooting I relaxed and got into positions just like I was shooting a .22 (Two-Two for our African friends...). Then and only then did my big bore ability increase exponentially! Now I can shoot my 458 Win in a solid sitting position. It may not be great for most of Africa but I enjoy shooting from it.

I have seen so many people show up at pistol practice with a .45 or light 9mm as their first serious handgun. I always recommend to get a .22 or even an air BB or pellet pistol so that recoil does not cloud their development.

Even better than the above is dry firing.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

One more thing about DG dry fire practice. I do a lot of in in my basement about 10 feet from my gun safe. There are a few inches of snow outside now. Not only is it cold, finding my inert cartridges in the snow can be difficult!

Anyway, when I pull out a rifle to fondle its magnificence... I dry fire a few magazines of dummy rounds! This is one thing I do to endure the many months between African safaris!

Warning:. Do not have any live ammo anywhere near your dry fire practice!!!

@Mark A Ouellette
I would make for an interesting scenario if you go a couple of live rounds mixed up and put one thru your gunsafe in the basement.
If you did that we would have to give you a nice nickname. Something like that actor idiot that didn't pull the trigger.
Ha ha ha
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Agree 100% !!!

The reassuring push of recoil against ones shoulder is not conducive to accuracy.
Recoil is even more so not conducive to mastering the fundamentals of marksmanship.
If one reviews the winners of the NRA and CMP 1000 yard matches, there will not be any .30 magnums. The smaller bores dominate partly because 1000 yards is a mental match against the wind. Less recoil results in more concentration after 15 or so shots.

When I started shooting a 416 Rem and 458 Win my body was tense. Sometime into my big bore load development and practice shooting I relaxed and got into positions just like I was shooting a .22 (Two-Two for our African friends...). Then and only then did my big bore ability increase exponentially! Now I can shoot my 458 Win in a solid sitting position. It may not be great for most of Africa but I enjoy shooting from it.

I have seen so many people show up at pistol practice with a .45 or light 9mm as their first serious handgun. I always recommend to get a .22 or even an air BB or pellet pistol so that recoil does not cloud their development.

Even better than the above is dry firing.

@Mark A Ouellette
When in hunting game I neither hear the gun go off(even the Whelen with a muzzle brake) or feel the recoil. Strange but you just get in the zone of taking a clean shot a
nd everything else seems to disappear. To me anyway.
Bob

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

@Mark A Ouellette
When in hunting game I neither hear the gun go off(even the Whelen with a muzzle brake) or feel the recoil. Strange but you just get in the zone of taking a clean shot a
nd everything else seems to disappear. To me anyway.
Bob

Agree once again @Bob Nelson 35Whelen
I never felt any recoil for any game I shot in Africa.
Shooting rapid fire pistol one gets into a rhythm with the pistol often coming back onto the target aiming point. The same was true long ago when I shot an M-14 in High Power competition.

Bone support, muscular relaxation, and natural point of aim are the rifle fundamentals to master.
For handgun, all the same but the shooting arm, or arms for those requiring two hands to shoot, must be tense rather than relaxed. The torso should be relaxed.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Agree once again @Bob Nelson 35Whelen
I never felt any recoil for any game I shot in Africa.
Shooting rapid fire pistol one gets into a rhythm with the pistol often coming back onto the target aiming point. The same was true long ago when I shot an M-14 in High Power competition.

Bone support, muscular relaxation, and natural point of aim are the rifle fundamentals to master.
For handgun, all the same but the shooting arm, or arms for those requiring two hands to shoot, must be tense rather than relaxed. The torso should be relaxed.

@Mark A Ouellette
I have tried shooting pistol two handed and the so called weaver stance but just can't get it.
In Canada we went to the Calgary indoor shooting range and the instructor tried to get me into the 2 handed stance. I told him it didn't feel right snd I would just shoot one handed if that was OK.
The target was at 15 yards and I told him I would put 2 shots centre mass and 5 in the head. He gave me a I'd like to see that look and said that thing recoils a bit. A few seconds later there's 2 shots dead centre and 5 in the head.
Dang I love the feel of that big 1911 45acp going off and the reassuring slap of the recoil in the palm. It's such a sweet weapon.
I did end up telling him I spent a bit of time with 45s later on. Putting 50 rounds thru that lovely gun as quick as he could load the mag was pure pleasure and I was smiling for quite a while after it. The barrel did get rather hot tho but shit it was fun.
Bob

 

[Tom Leoni]

Years ago, I got a Laser Ammo kit (target and laser cartridge) in .30-06. I've used it in my 1903 Springfield, my Model 17, and even my Cogswell & Harrison .318 WR (see picture).

No, it's no substitute to live firing practice, but this is the best $300 I've ever spent on gadget and I'm not even a gadget guy. If you factor in price and scarcity of ammo, trips to the range, weather, etc., etc., this thing not only pays for itself in mere weeks, but also enables you to practice any day, any time, in any position--sticks, offhand, prone, anything.

I often keep the rifle near my sofa where I usually sit, and when the fancy strikes me, I pop a few rounds at the target. Right handed, left handed, sitting, standing, what have you. My confidence has increased exponentially.

I couldn't recommend it more.

 

[grand veneur]

My posts have mainly related to hunting in Africa. The TS didn't specify where he wanted to hunt.

In this case I assumed that if one intend to hunt in Africa, one is an experienced shooter and only needs to practice with the weapons required for this hunt.