Power level..How do you ever rationalize going back down?

Forrest Halley

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So thanks to the hearty enablers here in the forum I have increased my power level from .300 Winchester Magnum to first .375 Holland and Holland and then .458 Lott.

My question is: Once you get comfortable with that higher level of power, how do you rationalize dropping back down to something normal for a whitetail?

I know I can kill a deer with a 9×19 fired from a 4" barrel. I also know I can kill a deer with a .30-06. Having recently killed a deer with a .458 Lott has caused me a lot of doubt in going back down. The intial sighting occurred at about 60 yards and I had the uncommon ability to select what I wanted to use. I shied away from the suppressed 300 BLK subsonics for lack of expanding projectiles. I almost took the shot with a .243 loaded with 100 grain A-MAX, but was concerned about the anchoring ability. So in a moment of complete "More Power!" I selected the .458 which was loaded with a 400 grain bullet because that's what I could find in the moment. By the time I had gotten myself together the nature of the shot had changing substantially. In retrospect these three setups would all have done the job. Just have to be able to flip the switch and commit I suppose.
 
I own a large number of rifles and calibers ranging from .22 through .470. I am a great believer In proportionality. In other words, I prefer to balance the rifle to the quarry. My current favorite deer rifle is a 7x65R. Though it could just as easily be one of my .270’s, or a 7x57, or a 6.5. I have zero desire to shoot a deer with a .338, .375 or forty something. I have used a .300 on my last couple of Nilgai and 9.3 on my last several bear. They seem perfectly proportioned to the task (though a .338 might be better proportioned to a NilgaI). I have zero desire to use a forty something on either.

Frankly, I have found no reason to bring a forty something on a hunt for buffalo. My .375’s have seemed so perfectly proportioned to them and the PG I have taken along the way.

So with respect to your question - no difficulty whatsoever.
 
To add just a small bit to @Red Leg 's post, within reason time spent on the range with your chosen rifle/caliber is more important than how big the bullet is. I used my .404 J on my one buffalo for a one shot kill, but am confident that a .375 HH 300 gr Barnes would have accomplished the same result. My .416 Rigby will likely never be used on a hunt. My 3006 M70 is my deer rifle because it has been for 48 years, not because that bullet is necessary.
 
Cost? I don't own a forty something (in the way you fine folks think of the term; I do have a .45-70) but I have to believe anything I haul out to shoot the stuff I have up here in AK is WAY cheaper to shoot than an African level forty something is. For some that's maybe not an issue. For some of us it is.

Also, I think it's fun to own, shoot, and hunt across a range of calibers. It's a puzzle of sorts, playing with loads and looking for the right one for a particular use. As always, your mileage may vary.
 
I'd add if the Lott trips your trigger for everything from ermine to elephant, go for it. It sure is a happy-cool thing when we find great joy in the things we pursue.
 
I'd add if the Lott trips your trigger for everything from ermine to elephant, go for it. It sure is a happy-cool thing when we find great joy in the things we pursue.
It was more of a I wonder if I could pull this off or a wouldn't this be a heck of a story to tell...
 
I think if you enjoy shooting a certain caliber above others for any reason and it brings you more joy, than you should go for it! (Within reason of course... Don't go out undergunned and go bear hunting with your favorite .22!)
Sometimes bigger isn't better. A big bore will not always have the ability to to reach out to the distance that may be required, and in many cases less is more.
 
I feel sort of conflicted saying anything here because I have ordered the 450/400 but still have pangs that the 375 Flanged in the light frame would have done it all anyway. By 'all' I mean PG and buffalo. I am sure 450/400 won't prove to be over the top and everyone tells me what a wonderful calibre it is.
 
I agree with Cam Moon, shoot what brings you pleasure.
As a moose hunter, and a big fan of medium bores of 8mm through 416; I let the anticipated shooting distances dictate what I use. Currently this is an easy decision because of the shorter maximum distances in the terrain that I hunt. I frankly ponder more what the particular bullet is going to do at close range and not the text book angle.

Purely personal decision as to range limitation. If my shoots were absolutely going to be 100 meters and under I would use my 458 Winchester or Lott.

I do not subscribe to the overkill scenarios. Over destruction possibly, but that can be controlled by the bullet to an extent. All bets are off if sizable bone fragments are flying about, regardless of bullet used.


I think if you enjoy shooting a certain caliber above others for any reason and it brings you more joy, than you should go for it! (Within reason of course... Don't go out undergunned and go bear hunting with your favorite .22!)
Sometimes bigger isn't better. A big bore will not always have the ability to to reach out to the distance that may be required, and in many cases less is more.
 
Recoil...

To me the answer is easy: recoil. The basic physics reality is that it is easier to shoot a lower-recoil rifle with consistent, predictable, repeatable accuracy, than a higher-recoil rifle. Period.

Case in point for me: both .257 Wby and .300 Wby barrels on my Blaser R8 shoot 1/3 to 1/2 MOA groups from a solid benchrest. I tested it. Yet, when shooting off the sticks, the .257 Wby opens to ~1 MOA and the .300 Wby opens to ~1.5 and occasionally ~2 MOA. This still rings the 6" plate at 300 yards, but some shots are on the edges...

The reason is simple: despite whatever can be read on the wonderful scientific engineering internet, Newton's third law (equal and opposite reaction) applies, and as the bullet starts to move forward, the rifle starts to move rearward. This is simply a fact. Period. Hence the emphasis on consistent position, i.e. consistent recoil control, in high-power matches...

Beside, not every shooting condition / position is ideal in the field, and it is a lot easier to get banged by the scope on a higher-recoil rifle than a lot of people think ;)
I have a friend (who will recognize himself) who shoots a light configuration R8 .375 in Africa in comfortable, warm condition and steady off the sticks position, and who will need his .375 for Brown Bear in Kamchatka, but who will put a kickstop in it to tame recoil just in case the shooting gets a bit cold and the position unpredictable. Smart move...

So, despite owning .458 Lott (heavies) and .375 H&H (cats) barrels, both of which can be easily used on PG out to 200 yards (even 300 yards for the .375 with BDC scope), I use the .300 Wby barrel on large PG and I LOVE the .257 Wby barrel on small PG and MG (Mountain Game), it is just so easy to shoot it with "surgical precision".
 
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I agree with Cam Moon, shoot what brings you pleasure.
As a moose hunter, and a big fan of medium bores of 8mm through 416; I let the anticipated shooting distances dictate what I use. Currently this is an easy decision because of the shorter maximum distances in the terrain that I hunt. I frankly ponder more what the particular bullet is going to do at close range and not the text book angle.

Purely personal decision as to range limitation. If my shoots were absolutely going to be 100 meters and under I would use my 458 Winchester or Lott.

I do not subscribe to the overkill scenarios. Over destruction possibly, but that can be controlled by the bullet to an extent. All bets are off if sizable bone fragments are flying about, regardless of bullet used.
I'm not thinking about overkill at all. Short tracking is nice especially late in the day. The Lott drops only 9 inches by 200 yards. On a whitetail that's very accommodating especially if you're holding hair not air.
Recoil...

To me the answer is easy: recoil. The basic physics reality is that it is easier to shoot a lower-recoil rifle with consistent, predictable, repeatable accuracy, than a higher-recoil rifle. Period.

Case in point for me: both .257 Wby and .300 Wby barrels on my Blaser R8 shoot 1/3 to 1/2 MOA groups from a solid benchrest. I tested it. Yet, when shooting off the sticks, the .257 Wby opens to ~1 MOA and the .300 Wby opens to ~1.5 and occasionally ~2 MOA. This still rings the 6" plate at 300 yards, but some shots are on the edges...

The reason is simple: despite whatever can be read on the wonderful scientific engineering internet, Newton's third law (equal and opposite reaction) applies, and as the bullet starts to move forward, the rifle starts to move rearward. This is simply a fact. Period. Hence the emphasis on consistent position, i.e. consistent recoil control, in high-power matches...

Beside, not every shooting condition / position is ideal in the field, and it is a lot easier to get banged by the scope on a higher-recoil rifle than a lot of people think ;)
I have a friend (who will recognize himself) who shoots a light configuration R8 .375 in Africa in comfortable, warm condition and steady off the sticks position, and who will need his .375 for Brown Bear in Kamchatka, but who will put a kickstop in it to tame recoil just in case the shooting gets a bit cold and the position unpredictable. Smart move...

So, despite owning .458 Lott (heavies) and .375 H&H (cats) barrels, both of which can be easily used on PG out to 200 yards (even 300 yards for the .375 with BDC scope), I use the .300 Wby barrel on large PG and I LOVE the .257 Wby barrel on small PG and MG (Mountain Game), it is just so easy to shoot it with "surgical precision".
Recoil is a valid consideration. Surgical accuracy is too. Does anyone care about sectional density as regards to diminishing brush deflection?
 
A couple months ago, I was debating whether to take my 338 WM or my 375 Ruger to BC for my moose hunt. I took both to the range and brought along a 7x57 to shoot while letting barrels cool on the other rifles. While shooting the 7x57, I thought how nice the low recoil was. I need to hunt more with it! I opted to take the 338 WM on the moose hunt and regrettably didn't fire it at any large bull.
 
A couple months ago, I was debating whether to take my 338 WM or my 375 Ruger to BC for my moose hunt. I took both to the range and brought along a 7x57 to shoot while letting barrels cool on the other rifles. While shooting the 7x57, I thought how nice the low recoil was. I need to hunt more with it! I opted to take the 338 WM on the moose hunt and regrettably didn't fire it at any large bull.
In all honesty, probably the better choice on a moose. Though, I am willing to testify in a court of law that the lowly 7mm works very well in Zambia.
 
I've shot smaller the size of impala to whitetails with big powerful calibers and it works but doesn't seem ideal. Recoil will start affecting pin point accuracy thus POI at some level... not to mention the more curved ballistic trajectory for longer shots. An example would be shooting a pronghorn from prone position at 300 yards with something like a Lott. Or trying a similar thing at a similar range across a canyon or open ground at a mule deer (or even a whitetail in certain areas) with a big, overkill caliber like one of 45s or 50s. :):) A 270 Win works so well, I would have to be forced or desperate to use so much overkill for that purpose. Now, if shots are kept to reasonable range and off a rest like sticks, big calibers work fine. On one Africa trip I used a 416 rem Mag for everything from buffalo and eland down to smaller PG like impala with excellent results. On the opposite end of this discussion is the use of or fascination with underkill... for reasons I've never understood.

If I could drive to Africa and not have to endure the hassle of air transport and permitting etc. of multiple guns then sure, I'd take a 270 or 7x57 for smaller plains game like impala or reedbuck, a 338-06 for mid-sized PG like oryx and kudu, a 375 HH or 416 Rem for eland and use the 416 Rem or add a 450 Watts for buffalo.

I've little interest in the really small stuff, like dassie to duiker, but I imagine any strong and heavy for caliber bullet at a slower speed would work great for minimal damage- but it will also need to be an accurate combination, shot accurately for obvious reasons.
 
If I could drive to Africa and not have to endure the hassle of air transport and permitting etc. of multiple guns then sure, I'd take a 270 or 7x57 for smaller plains game like impala or reedbuck, a 338-06 for mid-sized PG like oryx and kudu, a 375 HH or 416 Rem for eland and use the 416 Rem or add a 450 Watts for buffalo.

I think @One Day... accomplishes that by taking a Blaser with multiple barrels and a .470 for DG.
 
So thanks to the hearty enablers here in the forum I have increased my power level from .300 Winchester Magnum to first .375 Holland and Holland and then .458 Lott.

My question is: Once you get comfortable with that higher level of power, how do you rationalize dropping back down to something normal for a whitetail?

I know I can kill a deer with a 9×19 fired from a 4" barrel. I also know I can kill a deer with a .30-06. Having recently killed a deer with a .458 Lott has caused me a lot of doubt in going back down. The intial sighting occurred at about 60 yards and I had the uncommon ability to select what I wanted to use. I shied away from the suppressed 300 BLK subsonics for lack of expanding projectiles. I almost took the shot with a .243 loaded with 100 grain A-MAX, but was concerned about the anchoring ability. So in a moment of complete "More Power!" I selected the .458 which was loaded with a 400 grain bullet because that's what I could find in the moment. By the time I had gotten myself together the nature of the shot had changing substantially. In retrospect these three setups would all have done the job. Just have to be able to flip the switch and commit I suppose.
@Forrest Halley
The 300blk may have done it in a pinch.
The 243 NEVER NEVER EVER you had it loaded with a target bullet. Deer ain't made of paper
A thrown rock. Vastly superior to the first 2
458 Lott. Got the job done but as you said when I talked to you, you Lost half the meat.
STICK TO THE THROWN ROCK.
Bob
 
If you like it go for it but it’s not needed. I shoot whitetail, moose and bear with my 9.3x62. It’s simply the most amazing perfect cartridge ever! Hahah.

It’s taken grey duiker to eland and even Buffalo …

Take a rifle you truly enjoy using, pair it with the most appropriate projectile and go have fun and get some meat.

I’m to old (46) hahah again, to argue about what hammer to use hitting a nail. Have fun, be responsible to the game, PH, other hunters and ethics. Use the hammer that makes it fun.
 
I agree with the idea of using a suitable caliber for the game pursued. I will use my Ruger ranch 5.56 with 70g Barnes for whitetail at home but I’ve also used my .375 on deer as well. If I am dreaming of Africa that day I may just grab the .375 just because I can! My 6.5 PRC would be the obvious choose for deer if one of you was to look through my gun collection. Of course there would be some of you who might want me to pick up a trusty .30-06 or an old .243. Having choices makes it fun.
Philip
 
Anymore I find that I am hunting memories rather than game. As a result I tend to take a rifle or shotgun that holds memories, regardless as to possible over-powering the situation. I can take a 257 Roberts or a 338 for deer. I'm considering a 470 for elk next year, particularly if I draw a branch antler permit. But I respect the animals such that I won't go underpowered.
 

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