Politics

It says Denmark and Finland have 24 percent single parent households which lineup with Caucasians in America at around 25% and Sweden is at 34% which is quite a bit higher then the same racial group in America. France is also on the rise and was last reported at 23% in 2023. Seems like they match up with their demographic here in the states. Of the bigger countries only Germany and uk had lower rates at around 14-15%.

A strong cultural difference is how much fathers participate in raising their children. A single mother with her former husband actively engaged in child rearing and discipline will likely have a better chance of raising law abiding children.

Behavioral studies could develop statistical models of degrees of fatherhood in children’s lives resulting in those children’s success as adults. That’s not my field of expertise but it doesn’t take a PhD to see the results.
 
I completely agree with you on the drugs point you make.

Anyone busted with the cheaper Crack Cocaine Vs. Powder faced drastically different sentences. Crack was cheaper primarily an inner city drug. Powder was seen the white collar, professionals drug of choice.
You see, we can agree on somethings.
 
t is political gamesmanship to point to a single factor driving this persistent pattern. Most serious students of the issue point to proud economic changes broad economic changes, urban manufacturing declines, changes in welfare policy design, and shifting social norms in the black community (and more broadly) regarding marriage. And yes, drug related sentencing also played a role - as did an explosion of inner city crime that corresponded to the crack epidemic leading to those more draconian sentencing guidelines.

One thing people do not realize and it was pointed out to me at least in CA, anyway. In construction a lot of the dry wall, roofing companies etc. were either owned by blacks or employed a lot of black workers in the past. Now, the black owned companies are gone and black workers are replaced by migrant labor as they are less expensive. A lot of job opportunities have disappeared from the black community. Heck, my pool maintenance, yard maintenance, car wash service, house cleaning service are all Hispanic. They are not just making minimum wage either.

In retrospect, I have been on 4 project construction sites recently, I have not seen a single black person working.
 
Proponents of the “crackdown on crack” believed that lawful inner-city residents would be better off if crack offenders were locked up for longer periods of time.
I suppose it depends upon how long. When it comes to serious violent crimes there are three pretty clear inflection points in the data, ages 20, 25, and 29 of the offenders. Throwing a 22 year old offender in prison for 20-30 years for drug offenses has significant diminishing marginal utility.
“Bill Clinton and his allies embarked on a draconian punishment campaign to outflank the Republicans,” while Hillary supported the effort and “stood resolutely at her husband’s side.” Alexander, the author of the influential book The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness, argued that Clinton’s past embrace of tough-on-crime policies is one of several reasons black voters shouldn’t support her. “
I think this is a bit disingenuous. Hillary Clinton in the 1990s wasn't an elected official in any capacity. Also, who should black voters vote for in 2016? Trump? The guy who demanded the Central Park 5 be sentenced to death, even after DNA evidence and a confession from someone else exonerated them?
Further, what is called the American Prison Industrial Complex likely doesn’t help those in prison,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison–industrial_complex
I'm glad we agree on some things. The question is what to do about it now. Do we revert back to past failed policies? Or do we continue to do what is working?
Certainly our liberal leaning members can debate the origins of sentencing disparities of crack vs. cocaine, or the prison industrial complex, or if the sky is blue on a sunny day, but as Elmer Keith said long ago, “Hell, I was there”.
Yes but Bill Clintons failures don't absolve the Republicans of their culpability in the matter either too.
 
It has gone down in recent years but remains plateaued at roughly 47-50%. Hardly a triumph in the restoration of a stable family environments for half of this country's black children.
If it took society 50 years to screw it up, it'll take us at least 50 more to fix it.
Nothing is simple and nothing is the exclusive "fault" of either political party or administration. No matter where bias leads our finger pointing, fatherless households remain a significant persistent, now sixty years and counting, problem within the black community that has improved only marginally.
Fatherless households are worse in the Black community, but are still a problem for the country as a whole, regardless of race.
So long as conditions encourage the George Floyd's of the inner city to be the role models and heroes of black youth, little is likely to change.
I don't know any liberals, black or white that see George Floyd as a role model or a hero, especially to black youth. They do see his death as an agent of change (hopefully). But this incident is a whole separate discussion.
 
It says Denmark and Finland have 24 percent single parent households which lineup with Caucasians in America at around 25% and Sweden is at 34% which is quite a bit higher then the same racial group in America. France is also on the rise and was last reported at 23% in 2023. Seems like they match up with their demographic here in the states. Of the bigger countries only Germany and uk had lower rates at around 14-15%.
I was looking at and comparing the whole of Europe. Primarily the EU. Its 14% in the EU, vs. 23% in the US. Since Europe spends almost 2x on social welfare programs, this heavily debunks the claim that welfare is solely to blame for the rise in single-parent homes, or even a primary factor.


This article breaks it down by country. The wealthier ones have higher rates. But not as high as we do.
 
I suppose it depends upon how long. When it comes to serious violent crimes there are three pretty clear inflection points in the data, ages 20, 25, and 29 of the offenders. Throwing a 22 year old offender in prison for 20-30 years for drug offenses has significant diminishing marginal utility.

I think this is a bit disingenuous. Hillary Clinton in the 1990s wasn't an elected official in any capacity. Also, who should black voters vote for in 2016? Trump? The guy who demanded the Central Park 5 be sentenced to death, even after DNA evidence and a confession from someone else exonerated them?

I'm glad we agree on some things. The question is what to do about it now. Do we revert back to past failed policies? Or do we continue to do what is working?

Yes but Bill Clintons failures don't absolve the Republicans of their culpability in the matter either too.

And this is why I have had you on Ignore since your first day on AH. Have a nice life but try to get out of your mammas basement for 20 minutes of sunshine every day.
 
As I tried to point out, there are a host of reasons for the collapse of the black family structure in this country.

If we use 1960 as a baseline, 20-22% of black children lived in single-parent households. Over the next two decades between 1960 and 1980 single parentage rose to nearly 50% by 1980. The numbers peaked over the next two decades rising to just over 55% in the mid-1990's. It has gone down in recent years but remains plateaued at roughly 47-50%. Hardly a triumph in the restoration of a stable family environments for half of this country's black children.

It is political gamesmanship to point to a single factor driving this persistent pattern. Most serious students of the issue point to proud economic changes broad economic changes, urban manufacturing declines, changes in welfare policy design, and shifting social norms in the black community (and more broadly) regarding marriage. And yes, drug related sentencing also played a role - as did an explosion of inner city crime that corresponded to the crack epidemic leading to those more draconian sentencing guidelines.

Nothing is simple and nothing is the exclusive "fault" of either political party or administration. No matter where bias leads our finger pointing, fatherless households remain a significant persistent, now sixty years and counting, problem within the black community that has improved only marginally. So long as conditions encourage the George Floyd's of the inner city to be the role models and heroes of black youth, little is likely to change.

One element that doesn't seem to be covered much by social scientists that I believe is a real factor: shame and embarassment. The concept of "have you no shame?".

I remember growing up lower middle class and there was a lot of shame and stigma in society. Mothers of the poorer kids were obsessed that shoes were shined and girl's dresses were spotless for Sunday church. Discipline was stricter for the poor kids than the rich kids, because there was social-stigma trying to prove the lesser means people were just as good, just as ordered, and with equal earned dignity.

The midwest has always been Scandinavian and Dutch culturally influenced. The mindset that "if you have to stoop in your dignity to ask for welfare, you must surely need it". It is this shame/dignity concept of Northern Europeans.

People of all stripes today have less shame. Less embarrassment. A child's guest misbehaves at a private club...no big deal. A kid lies or steals...not a big deal. Dirty clothes or inappropriate attire for an event...no big deal.

Back in the day, fear of being ostracized due poor protocol was a very, very real threat. Those trying to socially climb (most people) were acutely aware of social queues and were very careful to avoid shame.

My point is that in the name of tolerance and acceptance, society has accepted really bad behavior overall. As pertains to multi-generational African-Americans, they are typically a bellwhether of bad things that hit their demographic first, and then migrates to Caucasians second. (e.g. unwed pregnancy)

African-American male youth culture is a culture without any shame. Their role models they emulate are undignified thugs and harlots, which does them no favors. Their tolerance for deviating from social norms has altered the clientele of major businesses like Carnival Cruise lines, Popeyes Chicken, and Red Lobster which is now struggling to regain decorum and re-appeal to other races as clients to no avail.

My hypothesis is that since it is proven that African-American youth have the highest self-esteem of any racial group, coupled with the phenomenon of no social stigma for modest infractions of societal norms, things are in a death-spiral that is unchecked.

My evidence is the dignity and propriety of the African American family circa 1950-1960 when racial issues were very real, poverty was far more profound, yet their dignity and propriety was far more noteworthy. (e.g. men in hats, proper church attire, just look at any of the old photos and video of their gentile nature)
 
I don't know any liberals, black or white that see George Floyd as a role model or a hero, especially to black youth. They do see his death as an agent of change (hopefully). But this incident is a whole separate discussion.
Did I use the term "liberal" anywhere in my post? I frankly could care less what a liberal thinks about Floyd. But I worry deeply how he is perceived by black urban culture.
 
As I tried to point out, there are a host of reasons for the collapse of the black family structure in this country.

If we use 1960 as a baseline, 20-22% of black children lived in single-parent households. Over the next two decades between 1960 and 1980 single parentage rose to nearly 50% by 1980. The numbers peaked over the next two decades rising to just over 55% in the mid-1990's. It has gone down in recent years but remains plateaued at roughly 47-50%. Hardly a triumph in the restoration of a stable family environments for half of this country's black children.

It is political gamesmanship to point to a single factor driving this persistent pattern. Most serious students of the issue point to proud economic changes broad economic changes, urban manufacturing declines, changes in welfare policy design, and shifting social norms in the black community (and more broadly) regarding marriage. And yes, drug related sentencing also played a role - as did an explosion of inner city crime that corresponded to the crack epidemic leading to those more draconian sentencing guidelines.

Nothing is simple and nothing is the exclusive "fault" of either political party or administration. No matter where bias leads our finger pointing, fatherless households remain a significant persistent, now sixty years and counting, problem within the black community that has improved only marginally. So long as conditions encourage the George Floyd's of the inner city to be the role models and heroes of black youth, little is likely to change.

One factor I'd point out is the shift to manufacturing overseas. You don't see a lot of black factory workers here in the USA. I am talking about the guy who puts in his 8-4, 7-3, whatever it is, then goes home to change and spend time with his family.

But, you really don't see factory workers in the USA...whether white, black, etc.

Now...

There are no factory workers. It's robots. Or it's made in China or Vietnam.

Whether it's politically correct or not, they did not have the education or skillset to work in other fields, so they worked hard in a factory with good benefits.

Now that's basically gone.
 
Last edited:
The one thing I've also had a problem with is we make this a "black" thing. Really it occurs in all races. Here in NJ, outside of urban populations, we have the same issue with lack of opportunities. Some of the more rural towns here (yes, we have them) are a mess.

Terrible school systems, lack of extracurricular programs, poor peer groups with emphasis on drug usage, loafing around, etc. It's a known thing too. I don't want to name towns but one near me is known as "the hill people." Huge town, 80 sq miles. Tons of drug usage. Most of the HS graduates, the ones that make it, end up in menial jobs/careers, and just fulfill the cycle.

That particular town is 80% white.

Parenting is the key piece of the puzzle. You have to show up, be there, for your kid. As a parent of two young kids, I remind myself of that every day. Not a race thing. You just need to show up and be a good parent.
 
One thing people do not realize and it was pointed out to me at least in CA, anyway. In construction a lot of the dry wall, roofing companies etc. were either owned by blacks or employed a lot of black workers in the past. Now, the black owned companies are gone and black workers are replaced by migrant labor as they are less expensive. A lot of job opportunities have disappeared from the black community. Heck, my pool maintenance, yard maintenance, car wash service, house cleaning service are all Hispanic. They are not just making minimum wage either.

In retrospect, I have been on 4 project construction sites recently, I have not seen a single black person working.
White people were out there too!! I have a nephew who was let go from a job because the crew became majority Hispanic and he didn't hable'
 

Forum statistics

Threads
69,611
Messages
1,552,151
Members
163,161
Latest member
LeanneOdon
 

 

 

Latest profile posts

MHYOUNG 375 wrote on DLSJR's profile.
Dan who is C. W. Richter? He seems to not be a fan of myself!
MHYOUNG 375 wrote on DLSJR's profile.
Who's this C. W. Richter? Seems to have a chip on his shoulder.
Andrew NOLA wrote on Huntforever's profile.
Lbarr might be a scammer

it appears he sold the same brass to me and another member
Nomosendero wrote on gregrn43's profile.
Between Blak Rock and Pocahontas, I did not want to say that on the forum. That's a nice Cat!
30-06Ken wrote on ftothfadd's profile.
I'll take the Vortex scope cover you have listed in the Pay it Forward thread.

Ken [redacted]
 
Top