Politics

[Big_Easy]

I’m not understanding your response that they didn’t lower rates until 20years are the war?
The Federal reserve pretty much capped rates starting in 1942 and kept them low and didn’t start raising them until the 1950’s .
Short term t bills averaged 0.375
And long treasury bonds averaged 2.5%

I’m not arguing over the your claim of effective rates of 40-50 percent.. that did not pay off the debt nor does it change or make my statement false that people did not pay the high up to 92 % top marginal rate applied after the war.

The us will never get there spending under control because contrary to belief they didn’t really get it under control after wwii. We did cut war spending in half for a few years but by the 50’s we went right back to it with Korea and then the cold war kept it high and climbing, LBJ and his great society bullshit and medicad,Medicare, and vietnam all by 1970 which is when our gdp technically hit the roughly 35% mark.

we are not in the same environment as wwii so it’s high unlikely that we could repeat those tactics.

You had the developed world collapse while we stayed intact.
That allowed us to economically explode on the scene.
We had a production and population boom.

And we had bretton wood which put us in control and the world hungry for our debt(opposite seems to be occurring today) which helped finance our deficit and allow us to expand.

I’m assuming that you bringing trump up that its somehow going to get me bothered… you would be incorrect.
Trump increasing the debt doesn’t change my feeling in any way because I would have to be blind and naive to think that any president has the power to lower spending and the desire to eliminate the national debt. There are no modern case studies to show that logic.

Sorry, I was referring to tax rates and not interest rates.

...So your position is maybe if America stopped getting itself involved in endless wars (and associated military industrial complex spending) we wouldn't be in the poor financial position we are in today?...Welcome to the modern day democratic party good sir.

"I would have to be blind and naive to think that any president has the power to lower spending.."
The modern day republican party is ruled by Donald Trump. He says jump, and they say, "how high master?" They pass the bills he says to, when he says so. If any congressman goes against him, he has them primaried out of office. Today is a good example of that. Trump has them by the balls, they do what they're told, so don't try and feign ignorance and say the president doesn't have that kind of political power. If ANY president did in the modern age, it's Trump.

 

[LivingTheDream]

But that's my point, the day of reckoning is coming, but since many of these republican baby-boomers wont be here to see it, they don't seem to care.

This issue you stated was you cant have economic growth while running deficits, which as pointed out, you can.

The issue is that most of the baby boomers will be passing on assets, the whole plan with the deficit is to keep inflation at 2 or 3% and lower the value of the debt, those assets will be passed on and continue to go up.

The day of reckoning only happens if there is not enough liquidity in the market, like if there was an event that stop global commerce.

So North Korea hasn't bombed anyone, but how many terrorist groups or terrorist attacks has North Korea sponsored? Iran has been waging a war against us for 47 years. And to that point, why would Isreal being hit by a Nuclear weapon be acceptable, what if they put a dirty bomb in a cargo hold of a tanker and sailed it in a US port? Why do we or one of our allies have to get hit in the face before we go ok now we should do something. By that logic, are you saying we should get out of NATO, stop sending aid to Ukraine and not sell defense systems to Taiwan?

 

[Big_Easy]

As long as they are here legally I don’t have an issue with immigration. However, for whatever reason liberals conflate the two in their arguments.

An example, in today’s headline was ICE arrested 100K immigrants who had US citizen kids. Well, if I rob someone they are not going to let me go because I have kids, don’t understand why having US citizen kids should make someone exempt from immigration laws.

Yes, but @deewayne2003 post was about the legal H1 immigrants and how businesses use them to replace American workers. I'm asking what's the difference? Whether they be legal or illegal, in many instances they are still replacing some America worker's job are they not? At least when it comes to illegals picking fruit out in the fields, i know the likelihood of them taking a citizens job is slim to none.

In referring to illegals having legal American children...Thats always the deal immigrants in this country have made with the government. They work like pseudo-slaves for their whole lives, for peanuts, and receive little to not societal benefits. In return, their kids get to be American citizens and that affords them and their eventual grandchildren a better life. Its a 3-generations principle. I'm just confused as to why Trump supporters are mad at them, the deal has worked for so long. Who's gunna be picking my fruit? Cause it sure is sh!t ain't me.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Sorry, I was referring to tax rates and not interest rates.

...So your position is maybe if America stopped getting itself involved in endless wars (and associated military industrial complex spending) we wouldn't be in the poor financial position we are in today?...Welcome to the modern day democratic party good sir.

"I would have to be blind and naive to think that any president has the power to lower spending.."
The modern day republican party is ruled by Donald Trump. He says jump, and they say, "how high master?" They pass the bills he says to, when he says so. If any congressman goes against him, he has them primaried out of office. Today is a good example of that. Trump has them by the balls, they do what they're told, so don't try and feign ignorance and say the president doesn't have that kind of political power. If ANY president did in the modern age, it's Trump.

You have just described every same party president/house relationship for the last 50 years, look at the single party votes that came out of the first 2 years of Obama. The COVID spending under Trump we had a democratic house. The balance budget under Clinton we had a Republican house. You dont think Pelosi had people primaried. Mitch McConnell and Harry Reid were way worse in holding back campaign funds when you didnt get in line. Btw the only reason we have Bernie Sanders is because of the NRA, worth a Google.

The point he was making was Trump or any president doesnt have the legal power to set the budget or control spending, political power fine, but legally that is set by the legislative branch.

 

[Big_Easy]

This issue you stated was you cant have economic growth while running deficits, which as pointed out, you can.

The issue is that most of the baby boomers will be passing on assets, the whole plan with the deficit is to keep inflation at 2 or 3% and lower the value of the debt, those assets will be passed on and continue to go up.

The day of reckoning only happens if there is not enough liquidity in the market, like if there was an event that stop global commerce.

So North Korea hasn't bombed anyone, but how many terrorist groups or terrorist attacks has North Korea sponsored? Iran has been waging a war against us for 47 years. And to that point, why would Isreal being hit by a Nuclear weapon be acceptable, what if they put a dirty bomb in a cargo hold of a tanker and sailed it in a US port? Why do we or one of our allies have to get hit in the face before we go ok now we should do something. By that logic, are you saying we should get out of NATO, stop sending aid to Ukraine and not sell defense systems to Taiwan?

You can have economic growth while running deficits, but one day the music will eventually stop. It is A solution, but not a solution that works forever. Besides, if this is the temporary solution that we're going with, then why is everyone on the right bitching about inflation during the Biden administration?

"The day of reckoning only happens if there is not enough liquidity in the market, like if there was an event that stop[ed] global commerce."

Yeah, like..........
1) A great depression, or
2) A savings and loan crisis, or
3) A dot-com bubble bursting, or
4) 9/11 terrorist attack, or
5) A housing crisis, or
6) The great financial recession, or
7) A massive global pandemic, or
8) A crap ton of other things that could happen, some we can foresee, and some we can't?

At some point you get into a debt spiral, and almost your entire budget is servicing your prior debt obligations. It is a self-reinforcing proposition. It will one day lead to a lack of liquidity in the market. You also forget that in past liquidity crunches we have had other financial levers/tools available to us, that may not exist in the future. For instance, the amount of debt that the federal reserve has on its balance sheet at any given time used to be less than $1 Trillion, now it's $6-7 Trillion. It was declining under Biden, now Trump is growing it yet again. One can only shuffle paper around for so long.

 

[Killingtime]

Sorry, I was referring to tax rates and not interest rates.

...So your position is maybe if America stopped getting itself involved in endless wars (and associated military industrial complex spending) we wouldn't be in the poor financial position we are in today?...Welcome to the modern day democratic party good sir.

"I would have to be blind and naive to think that any president has the power to lower spending.."
The modern day republican party is ruled by Donald Trump. He says jump, and they say, "how high master?" They pass the bills he says to, when he says so. If any congressman goes against him, he has them primaried out of office. Today is a good example of that. Trump has them by the balls, they do what they're told, so don't try and feign ignorance and say the president doesn't have that kind of political power. If ANY president did in the modern age, it's Trump.

Yes your right tax rates stayed high for a very long time.

If I recall Obama and Biden were very pro war as well as Wilson,FDR,Truman,and LBJ heck the only democrat that was anti war was jfk and we all know how that ended… I know republican presidents are also pro war.. it is amazing Eisenhower warned everyone of the military industrial complex.. i believe he coined the phrase in his farewell speech.

I do not believe trump has the power to control the spending not in a meaningful way no do I believe he wants to.

I like Ron and Rand Paul on there fiscal policy and by extension massie though to be honest until the Covid bill in 2020 I had no knowledge of him and haven’t payed much attention until the BB bill and his opposition.
Kentucky is a weird state politically anyway.. how the heck did McConnell stay in office for so long.

 

[LivingTheDream]

Yes, but @deewayne2003 post was about the legal H1 immigrants and how businesses use them to replace American workers. I'm asking what's the difference? Whether they be legal or illegal, in many instances they are still replacing some America worker's job are they not? At least when it comes to illegals picking fruit out in the fields, i know the likelihood of them taking a citizens job is slim to none.

In referring to illegals having legal American children...Thats always the deal immigrants in this country have made with the government. They work like pseudo-slaves for their whole lives, for peanuts, and receive little to not societal benefits. In return, their kids get to be American citizens and that affords them and their eventual grandchildren a better life. Its a 3-generations principle. I'm just confused as to why Trump supporters are mad at them, the deal has worked for so long. Who's gunna be picking my fruit? Cause it sure is sh!t ain't me.

I feel like you are purposely obtuse and lumping in conflicting issues.

You are against big business and corporations, however you are pro H1B visas for tech jobs. H1Bs drive down the wages of American workers, they will come here and work for less. This increases the supply of cheaper labor and drives down other wages of typically higher paying jobs. It is simply supply and demand. You want to do something good for the American worker end that.

The illegal issue, is totally different, let's conservatively say there is 10M illegals, that is a lot of potential cheap labor, and a lot of demand on resources, housing, water, electricity, groceries, etc.

There is no deal made and honestly it insulting to a lot of legal immigrants that came here and did things the right way, my CEO came here as an immigrant, wife is a 1st generation American, there was no deal made, they came here because their is an opportunity to make your path, success is based on you, and as much as you might dislike it that is what America is, you have an opportunity and there is no guarantee of a better life but you have the freedom to at least try.

As far as who will pick your fruit, as a 14 and 15 year, I got pretty good at catching watermelons. So you're welcome.

 

[Big_Easy]

So North Korea hasn't bombed anyone, but how many terrorist groups or terrorist attacks has North Korea sponsored? Iran has been waging a war against us for 47 years. And to that point, why would Isreal being hit by a Nuclear weapon be acceptable, what if they put a dirty bomb in a cargo hold of a tanker and sailed it in a US port? Why do we or one of our allies have to get hit in the face before we go ok now we should do something. By that logic, are you saying we should get out of NATO, stop sending aid to Ukraine and not sell defense systems to Taiwan?

But not against America. NK hasn't been attacking us, other people yes, us, no. I guess being totally irradiated by the most powerful military on Earth has that affect..No?

"what if they put a dirty bomb in a cargo hold of a tanker and sailed it in a US port" Well since they've had radiological material for decades now and haven't done that, one would think that is because of the same reason that North Korea hasn't done something like that...The total annihilation of their entire country by the USA. M.A.D. is still a powerful deterrent, even to the Iranians. They want the nukes for the same reason NK, Pakistan, and India did (they haven't nuked anyone either). They are the ultimate bargaining chips. The regime's want to stay in power.

Besides, whatever happened to Trump and the MAGA "America First" agenda? We have to protect Israel because they "might be invaded." But we cant help the Ukrainian's even-though they are actively being invaded right now? Israel is a "big-boy" country that mostly pays for its citizen's healthcare and education. I just think that any country that can afford to pay those bills can buy their own weapons. Especially since we don't pay those bills for our own citizens. Maybe giving them $20 billion per year could be better spent somewhere else?

I mean wasn't Reagan selling the Iranians weapons? Are you saying that Reagan was selling weapons to America's enemy that we were at war with? Sounds like a traitor to me! Poor guy is rolling over in his grave right now. America letting the commies run roughshod all over eastern Europe right now while pouring Trillions into the middle-east money pit yet again.

 

[LivingTheDream]

1) A great depression, or
2) A savings and loan crisis, or
3) A dot-com bubble bursting, or
4) 9/11 terrorist attack, or
5) A housing crisis, or
6) The great financial recession, or
7) A massive global pandemic, or
8) A crap ton of other things that could happen, some we can foresee, and some we can't?

All liquidity events, none lead to a death spiral, and what did the fed do, print more money. Is the market higher or lower than before any of those events happen? Is the quality of life better or worse than when any of those things happen?

I think it is an issue, you think it is an issue, Alan Greenspan said the deficit doesnt matter because we can always print more money. They can shuffle papers around a lot longer than anyone on this forum can stay sane.

 

[Killingtime]

You can have economic growth while running deficits, but one day the music will eventually stop. It is A solution, but not a solution that works forever. Besides, if this is the temporary solution that we're going with, then why is everyone on the right bitching about inflation during the Biden administration?

"The day of reckoning only happens if there is not enough liquidity in the market, like if there was an event that stop[ed] global commerce."

Yeah, like..........
1) A great depression, or
2) A savings and loan crisis, or
3) A dot-com bubble bursting, or
4) 9/11 terrorist attack, or
5) A housing crisis, or
6) The great financial recession, or
7) A massive global pandemic, or
8) A crap ton of other things that could happen, some we can foresee, and some we can't?

At some point you get into a debt spiral, and almost your entire budget is servicing your prior debt obligations. It is a self-reinforcing proposition. It will one day lead to a lack of liquidity in the market. You also forget that in past liquidity crunches we have had other financial levers/tools available to us, that may not exist in the future. For instance, the amount of debt that the federal reserve has on its balance sheet at any given time used to be less than $1 Trillion, now it's $6-7 Trillion. It was declining under Biden, now Trump is growing it yet again. One can only shuffle paper around for so long.

I don’t believe Biden had any control over the fed’s Quantitative tightening?
In a slightly personal note if your are a democrat why are you as concerned with the fiscal policy of the country? I’m asking not because I believe conservatives actually care more but more because the Democratic Party has a life long history of expanding government with a slight exception of Carter and Clinton both of which still did but did also cut some groups and entitlements.

The only party that has people who run in congress of any capacity and actively tried to lower spending has been libertarians or in Ron, Rand and maybe massie republicans who were actually libertarians

 

[LivingTheDream]

Besides, whatever happened to Trump and the MAGA "America First" agenda? We have to protect Israel because they "might be invaded." But we cant help the Ukrainian's even-though they are actively being invaded right now? Israel is a "big-boy" country that mostly pays for its citizen's healthcare and education. I just think that any country that can afford to pay those bills can buy their own weapons. Especially since we don't pay those bills for our own citizens. Maybe giving them $20 billion per year could be better spent somewhere else?

My question was towards you, should we not support Ukraine and Taiwan? You said we shouldnt support Isreal. You are just as much a hypocrite as the "MAGA" people you like to mock.

I am not MAGA, and my approach to Ukraine would have been we will sell you anything you want for 1 dollar, tell Putin we arent involved and turn Ukraine loose. But I also believe the whole strategy with Ukraine is to give them just enough to grind Russia down, they will lose a generation of men, and military equipment, I am sure you noticed no tanks in the Russian Military parade.

 

[Big_Easy]

Yes your right tax rates stayed high for a very long time.

If I recall Obama and Biden were very pro war as well as Wilson,FDR,Truman,and LBJ heck the only democrat that was anti war was jfk and we all know how that ended… I know republican presidents are also pro war.. it is amazing Eisenhower warned everyone of the military industrial complex.. i believe he coined the phrase in his farewell speech.

I recall Obama ending GWB and the Republican Neo-cons unnecessary war or choice in Iraq. And I do recall Biden ending GWB and the Republican Neo-cons forever war in Afghanistan. I wouldn't list either of them as pro-war. If Biden was pro-war he would have committed more munitions to Ukraine and probably troops as well, but he did not. The political parties of today don't really resemble the parties of the 1960s, so I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison (Wilson, FDR, Truman). I mean some of that was 100+ years ago. My grandparents weren't even born yet.

 

[Killingtime]

I feel like you are purposely obtuse and lumping in conflicting issues.

You are against big business and corporations, however you are pro H1B visas for tech jobs. H1Bs drive down the wages of American workers, they will come here and work for less. This increases the supply of cheaper labor and drives down other wages of typically higher paying jobs. It is simply supply and demand. You want to do something good for the American worker end that.

The illegal issue, is totally different, let's conservatively say there is 10M illegals, that is a lot of potential cheap labor, and a lot of demand on resources, housing, water, electricity, groceries, etc.

There is no deal made and honestly it insulting to a lot of legal immigrants that came here and did things the right way, my CEO came here as an immigrant, wife is a 1st generation American, there was no deal made, they came here because their is an opportunity to make your path, success is based on you, and as much as you might dislike it that is what America is, you have an opportunity and there is no guarantee of a better life but you have the freedom to at least try.

As far as who will pick your fruit, as a 14 and 15 year, I got pretty good at catching watermelons. So you're welcome.

Your right the true cost of literally 10’s of millions of illegals over the last 50 years has drastically lowered wages and as a additional side effect like you said made everything that actually matters to survive and thrive for 98% of Americans go way way up.

 

[LivingTheDream]

I mean wasn't Reagan selling the Iranians weapons? Are you saying that Reagan was selling weapons to America's enemy that we were at war with? Sounds like a traitor to me! Poor guy is rolling over in his grave right now. America letting the commies run roughshod all over eastern Europe right now and pouring Trillions into the middle-east money pit yeat again.

OMG did you hear we fought a war a long time ago with the Germans. What about the recent military deals with the Japanese? Crazy to think Geo-political friends and enemies could change over decades, shocking I say!!!

Pretty sure a lot of people in the Baltic countries, would be shocked to know Communism is running rampant over their countries.

 

[LivingTheDream]

If Biden was pro-war he would have committed more munitions to Ukraine and probably troops as well, but he did not.

Sounds like Biden was pro-Russia by your description.

Also not sure I would brag about how Biden ended the war in Afghanistan, might want to sit that one out.

 

[Killingtime]

I recall Obama ending GWB and the Republican Neo-cons unnecessary war or choice in Iraq. And I do recall Biden ending GWB and the Republican Neo-cons forever war in Afghanistan. I wouldn't list either of them as pro-war. If Biden was pro-war he would have committed more munitions to Ukraine and probably troops as well, but he did not. The political parties of today don't really resemble the parties of the 1960s, so I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison (Wilson, FDR, Truman). I mean some of that was 100+ years ago. My grandparents weren't even born yet.

Iraq was a terrible idea everyone knows that now and has for awhile not many outside certain military and congress knew that at the time.
I recall everybody except Harry brown and Ron Paul who I saw give a speech after 9/11 saying retaliation will not gain us anything be in full support. For Afghanistan (I looked up on ai and it said Barbara Lee also opposed it I’m not familiar with her but she was the only dem to oppose Afghanistan)
Obama inserted us into countless other countries in the Middle East and Africa I have friends who went all over the place during his years so he most certainly can’t be anti war. And I don’t recall Biden opposing any of those wars but I’m not sure on that point.

And yes the parties base beliefs are different then they were back in the day but I do not believe the people running any of them are.

 

[Foxi]

Graham Linehan: Father Ted co-creator arrested at Heathrow over his X posts

Graham Linehan was arrested on suspicion of inciting violence and bailed pending further investigation.

www.bbc.com

Totally normal police behavior protecting free speech

Whatever one may think of transgender people,
to call incitement to violence “free speech” is a bit of a stretch.

 

[spike.t]

Putin tells Xi Russia-China ties have hit 'unprecedentedly high level' - follow live

The Russian leader is looking to strengthen ties as Beijing is a critical ally for an increasingly isolated Moscow.

www.bbc.com

 

[Foxi]

@Killingtime
"if your Bavarian I assume you are German or Austrian.. some of the things people have been jailed in Germany for saying is appalling and that trend seems to extend to many places in Western Europe now."

I’d like to know more about that. Where I’m from, we tend to let certain people go free rather than lock them up.

And yes, some countries have strange views and laws.
In Texas, for example, I read that dildos were banned, and simply owning one was a criminal offense.
Now there’s Section 43.21, which allows a maximum of six . An important achievement to help out frail older gentlemen.
I’ll refrain from asking our Texans here who was already breaking that rule back then.