Politics

[spike.t]

Unbelievable....well maybe not with this lot....

Ukraine: Smiles as Vladimir Putin meets Donald Trump's envoy Steve Witkoff

As Russia and the US seek to repair ties, could they secure a peace deal acceptable to Ukraine, asks the BBC's Russia editor.

www.bbc.com

 

[Vashper]

Nobody in the West wants Russian land. Get off of your paranoia.

dear Scott CWO, I highly appreciate your guarantees (I hope no one in the West will violate them in the future), but nevertheless I would like to note that from the outside it is the Western idea of advancing its military structure to the East that looks like a really paranoid idea.
Considering the main topic of the forum: if you're sitting in a tree and a bear is climbing up to you, what should you think? Even if he assures you that your fears are paranoid. (yes, the bear does not violate any written agreements).

 

[KJE81]

Speaking of Bears, I think it would be more prudent to worry about the Panda bear to your south instead...

 

[Altitude sickness]

Son of CIA deputy director was killed while fighting for Russia, report says

Michael Alexander Gloss, 21, who died on 4 April 2024, was the son of top-ranking US spy Juliane Gallina

www.theguardian.com

This kid was most likely forced to the front line as cannon fodder. It’s too bad we don’t have his account of his final days. I wonder how firm his beliefs were when all his comrades were laying dead around him and a $200 Ukrainian drone was chasing him around a tree.

Another spoiled unappreciative brat that hopefully didn’t breed before he went to Russia.

 

[Tubby’s Canteen]

dear Scott CWO, I highly appreciate your guarantees (I hope no one in the West will violate them in the future), but nevertheless I would like to note that from the outside it is the Western idea of advancing its military structure to the East that looks like a really paranoid idea.
Considering the main topic of the forum: if you're sitting in a tree and a bear is climbing up to you, what should you think? Even if he assures you that your fears are paranoid. (yes, the bear does not violate any written agreements).

The main difference in perspective is who you consider the bear. The real issue the world is facing? Russia is a bear, china is another bear and now America is acting like yet a third bear.

 

[Red Leg]

dear Scott CWO, I highly appreciate your guarantees (I hope no one in the West will violate them in the future), but nevertheless I would like to note that from the outside it is the Western idea of advancing its military structure to the East that looks like a really paranoid idea.
Considering the main topic of the forum: if you're sitting in a tree and a bear is climbing up to you, what should you think? Even if he assures you that your fears are paranoid. (yes, the bear does not violate any written agreements).

Just exactly what I was thinking. It is why one builds a strong fence to keep the bear contained, and why anyone who has had any close experience with the bear wants to be on the outside of the fence.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

dear Scott CWO, I highly appreciate your guarantees (I hope no one in the West will violate them in the future), but nevertheless I would like to note that from the outside it is the Western idea of advancing its military structure to the East that looks like a really paranoid idea.
Considering the main topic of the forum: if you're sitting in a tree and a bear is climbing up to you, what should you think? Even if he assures you that your fears are paranoid. (yes, the bear does not violate any written agreements).

Just exactly what I was thinking. It is why one builds a strong fence to keep the bear contained, and why anyone who has had any close experience with the bear wants to be on the outside of the fence.

You guys are discussing one of these bears, right?

 

[Altitude sickness]

The “Bear” reference is quite a coincidence. My brother dropped off this week some military citations and pictures my mother had in her collection.

This one was of a Russian recon plane flying low and slow over our operating area off Oman in early 1980.

A U.S. Tomcat is escorting the Russian plane out. That is our groups 46 hovering over our groups box. This was in support of “operation Eagle Claw”

We incorrectly called these planes “Bears” the real Bears were high altitude spy planes.

 

[bowjijohn]

Just exactly what I was thinking. It is why one builds a strong fence to keep the bear contained, and why anyone who has had any close experience with the bear wants to be on the outside of the fence.

Which brings us back to the issue of NATO expansion

Countries that have ‘had a dose’ of Russian control have fled to the protection of the NATO umbrella

NATO doesn’t threaten Russia

It is the choice of nations seeking to escape totalitarian control that threatens totalitarian states

 

[Altitude sickness]

Russia is smart to fear NATO expansion. The last two inductions are very formidable militarily.

 

[Red Leg]

Russia is smart to fear NATO expansion. The last two inductions are very formidable militarily.

And both a result of Russia's unprovoked invasion of Ukraine. The most humorous part of the expansion is Putin's supposed goal to prevent the establishment of a common NATO border. The strategic genius in the Kremlin has instead created one over a thousand kilometers in length with Finland and thanks to both Finland and Sweden turned the Baltic into a NATO lake. NATO listening posts now have surveillance direct line of sight to the naval bases around Murmansk meaning a Russian nuclear submarine can't flush a toilet without NATO being aware. Must make the average regime apologist and propagandist squirm just a bit.

 

[Altitude sickness]

As most know Finland and Sweden are impossible to conquer. You may be able to attack it. But you would never hold it.

 

[LivingTheDream]

What are we blaming him for? How about giving the liberals a rallying point to shift focus away from Trudeau and costing the the conservatives a 5% lead in the polls. This election will be decided by voters who traditionally don’t vote and all they can see is a threat south of the boarder. I don’t know why that is so hard for you to wrap your head around prior to trump starting his utter foolishness the conservatives had the next election all but sewn up now thanks to him a short sighted an naive portion of the electorate that typically doesn’t vote and has no understanding of the real issues at play the liberals will win handedly.

Here is why it is hard to wrap my head around it. Is that the Canadian population is so weak and so easily influenced that a person in another country is being used to shift the blame of how terrible your government has been.

The fact you (someone I consider informed and respect) is saying Trump is to blame surprises me, but you did mention the real issue to me is a naive population which is what I was getting at.

Someone told me yesterday at work, "everything happens for a reason" and I said, "well maybe the reason is we are stupid and make bad decisions". This is about how I feel about the Canadian voting population if they vote for the same party as Trudeau and then blame Trump.

 

[LivingTheDream]

That is what I can’t wrap my head around why does trump get a free pass to say what ever pops in his mind at the moment when all other politicians are held accountable for their statements?

For what it is worth no politician is held accountable for their statements.

 

[Tanks]

There is no such thing as a 0% auto loan from a dealer. They just charge you more for the vehicle. Always negotiate the cash price of a vehicle before mentioning trades or financing or payments.

Ahem, I paid a 0% loan for my girlfriend’s jeep. Price was determined when we ordered it, X below MSRP. Paying for it was arranged after the sale, options were 0% for 3 years, cash or traditional financing.

Price of the vehicle was determined way before moving to the finance guy even with my Lexus. Though, they pushed for me to finance it 100% and take it home that night rather than wait 2 days for wire transfer. I told them I didn’t mind waiting.

 

[BJH65]

Ahem, I paid a 0% loan for my girlfriend’s jeep. Price was determined when we ordered it, X below MSRP. Paying for it was arranged after the sale, options were 0% for 3 years, cash or traditional financing.

Price of the vehicle was determined way before moving to the finance guy even with my Lexus. Though, they pushed for me to finance it 100% and take it home that night rather than wait 2 days for wire transfer. I told them I didn’t mind waiting.

Same here. During Covid 2020, Nissan offered 0% for 7 years (I know insane), so I purchased a new 2019 4x4 Titan below MSRP (of course that can vary I guess), plus it was a previous years model, so great deals to be had, they wanted to get rid of them to make room for the 2020 year models. Back then due to Covid, you couldn’t go to the dealership so they drove the truck to me. Could’ve paid it off long ago but why? Normally, I buy used pickups but couldn’t pass this up. Too bad Toyota didn’t offer this, really wanted a Tundra but the Titan has been a good reliable rig for me.

 

[Datchew]

My error, you are such a Russian apologist I mistakenly assumed that you must be Russian.

Riiiiight. Where have i defended the Russians?
Don't equate calling a balanced view of the situation and the warts on both sides as defending the one you don't like because I'm not willing to look at it in a pure black vs. pure white lens as it seems many are.

 

[Datchew]

OF course Poland is relevant. The expansion to Poland took place after the alleged "promise" and was explicitly approved of by the Russian head of State, Yeltsin. Meaning that the Russian head of state approved of a specific NATO expansion that occurred after the alleged agreement not to. In legal terms we would call that waiver.

I guess your theory is that international relations involving hundreds of thousands of lives and billions upon billions of dollars should be governed by unverified and never reduced to writing promises made by people who would never have authority to bind NATO or their own country anyways. That can't end badly.

Why you seem so invested in defending a clear bogus Putin pretext for war is beyond me.

I failed to notice the bit about Poland.
In the context in which our back and forth started, Poland is irrelevant. If Putin attacked one of the 3 baltics, it would be a NATO war, not a US war. We're often viewed and expected to be the world's policeman.

If he attacked Poland, it's also a NATO war. Thus, to the topic at hand, Poland, which was not attacked or invaded, was irrelevant to the topic of IF he attacked the baltics.

Your last line really takes your argument down. It's the classic "if you don't agree with me, you're a Putin puppet" argument.

 

[rigbymauser]

The main difference in perspective is who you consider the bear. The real issue the world is facing? Russia is a bear, china is another bear and now America is acting like yet a third bear.

Solong there are two female bears out of the three there will be no fighting in the cage. Who wants to be the male bear?….lol

 

[Red Leg]

In the context in which our back and forth started, Poland is irrelevant. If Putin attacked one of the 3 baltics, it would be a NATO war, not a US war. We're often viewed and expected to be the world's policeman.

You are going to have to parse that one for me. Article 5 no longer applies to the US?