Not A Warm Welcome!!

[mrpoindexter]

I think we would find it easier to explain to a mountain climber how we would not want to take a helicopter from base camp to the top.

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

I'm been researching and looking for help on hunting dangerous game with my bow. I just received a message from a lifetime Bronze member, I will not give names, calling me foolish and said Im risking my PH's life. At first, it upset me but now it just saddens me. Our society has reached a point were we feel it's acceptable to attack people that hold different opinions or passions.

So, he feels it's unacceptable to bow hunt dangerous game with a bow. That's Fine but why send a stanger a message calling him a fool. How's this any different, then the liberals taking away our hunting rights because they feel it's foolish and wrong?

You might consider reaching out to Strang Middleton in Zambia on this. He's a big bowhunter himself and loves chasing dangerous came with the bow.

 

[deewayne2003]

Huntforever I feel your pain; I once had a well know forum member send me a PM that asked several VERY condescending questions about….

“Why do you think you can charge new price for a gun like that, what makes you think this will ever sell…. Good luck watching this post FOREVER with no internet”

I sold the .470ne Heym in no time and for full asking price.

Now having said that…..I do think your post has a ring of “poor me” as in the victim manufacturing we see from the “liberals” you mention in your own post.

 

[TERMINATOR]

Welcome to the site.

actually we have had a few woundings from bow hunters over the years ( on us, hundreds on game) I was stabbed in the back of the leg & many close calls & my guiding partner was stabbed badly in the back by a archery hunter, this on Water Buffalo .

I assume the arrow was nocked on this two incidents?

Were they on final approach just before the shot or do people just stalk the whole time with a nocked arrow?

I got nothing against bow hunters and bow hunting but I would have thought a arrow would not be nocked until you are on final approach to shoot. But I don't know. All of my bow hunting has been out of a stand not spot/stalk so I am geniunly curious about the circumstances of these two incidents and not putting down the idea of bowhunting DG

But I do think the author was being a little thin skinned. Someone telling you in a PM that they think you are foolish for trying to hunt DG with a bow is just their opinion and they gave it to you privately. That isn't exactly my idea of somebody "attacking" you and not paint all of the AH site as "Not Welcoming". Once again...just my opinion

I would have just replied "Thanks for your opinion" and locked the conversation

 

[mrpoindexter]

I would say that if this happened on Facebook, he probably would have done just that. It is a bit shocking to see that here though it was private at least. In keeping with that, he has not revealed the name of the person of that opinion, which should be kept private.

I do think it is a legitimate question of how many people here think bowhunting dangerous game is either unethical or not fair to put the PH at such risk, I also wonder how many people who feel that way have bow hunted or witnessed first-hand the lethality of an arrow on big animals. I have some footage but since it was shot in 4k, the files are too big to upload, and I haven't had the time or inclination to convert them into a video for sharing since I am paying somebody else to do that for me. I should have the finished video in a couple months.

 

[rookhawk]

I would say that if this happened on Facebook, he probably would have done just that. It is a bit shocking to see that here though it was private at least. In keeping with that, he has not revealed the name of the person of that opinion, which should be kept private.

I do think it is a legitimate question of how many people here think bowhunting dangerous game is either unethical or not fair to put the PH at such risk, I also wonder how many people who feel that way have bow hunted or witnessed first-hand the lethality of an arrow on big animals. I have some footage but since it was shot in 4k, the files are too big to upload, and I haven't had the time or inclination to convert them into a video for sharing since I am paying somebody else to do that for me. I should have the finished video in a couple months.

As I stated earlier in the thread in so many words, there is a certain kind of bowhunter that has the potential to ruin the sport for everybody. They do not represent most bow hunters but it sucks to be a fellow hunter when things go bad in this way.

1.) Flashback to the Cecil debacle. I initially had great sympathy for Walter Palmer until I realized how blatantly irresonsible he was with who he chose to hunt with, how he failed to maintain sole custody of his photos, and for being naively stupid. I still gave him some benefit of the doubt figuring he’d never do something that reckless again but there he was in the National Inquirer a year or so later in the Steppes with a Tahr, Turr, Markhor, or some other big ass sheep and AGAIN all his photos got into the national media.

2.) As mentioned previously, the guy that wants to go unguided and do what he wishes. Yeah, as though he’s going to tell that he wounded a DG animal and thus must pay a huge cost for a lost animal? Nah, he’ll just shoot himself another one, or skip town without paying the guide because it was put down with a PH’s rifle which ruins the hunt for entry into the bow record book.

 

[freefall]

I'm having a very bad day, so I want to share it with everyone.
That being said, I grew up as a farm boy in Iowa. I hunted pheasants actively whenever in season from age 12 to about age 20.
I found a lot of dead deer with arrows in them whilst kicking through pheasant cover and decided I didn't believe in bowsnarrers as ethical hunting tools.
Abuse me as you will, you will not change my mind.

 

[TERMINATOR]

I'm having a very bad day, so I want to share it with everyone.
That being said, I grew up as a farm boy in Iowa. I hunted pheasants actively whenever in season from age 12 to about age 20.
I found a lot of dead deer with arrows in them whilst kicking through pheasant cover and decided I didn't believe in bowsnarrers as ethical hunting tools.
Abuse me as you will, you will not change my mind.

The % of deer lost during bow season is multiples higher than gun season, of that I have zero doubt
But honestly I attribute that mostly to guys that are gun hunters and shoot their bows a couple times before bow season and then bowhunt from stands... just to be able to hunt more. Combine that with no snow to track... and yea, lots of deer left in the woods by “bow hunters”.

That said, I also firmly believe that most guys that are skilled enough to spot and stalk animals with a bow and get within bow range probably put in the time to be good with their bow. They are true “Bow Hunters” in my mind. But that is just a hypothisis by me.

 

[R.M.C.]

I'm having a very bad day, so I want to share it with everyone.
That being said, I grew up as a farm boy in Iowa. I hunted pheasants actively whenever in season from age 12 to about age 20.
I found a lot of dead deer with arrows in them whilst kicking through pheasant cover and decided I didn't believe in bowsnarrers as ethical hunting tools.
Abuse me as you will, you will not change my mind.

+1

 

[rookhawk]

I'm having a very bad day, so I want to share it with everyone.
That being said, I grew up as a farm boy in Iowa. I hunted pheasants actively whenever in season from age 12 to about age 20.
I found a lot of dead deer with arrows in them whilst kicking through pheasant cover and decided I didn't believe in bowsnarrers as ethical hunting tools.
Abuse me as you will, you will not change my mind.

I’m glad you brought up this point because its a perception that goes against the bow hunter. A lot of people assume the wound-to-kill ratio of archery is higher than rifle hunters. The Game and Fish departments have done a good job of studying this over a long period of time because they wanted to know the predictive formulas of harvested animals Vs wounded/injured/lost so they could set the right seasons for each weapon type.

The data is overwhelming that archery does not maim more animals than a rifle. When done correctly, death can be extremely quick. The notion of a bowhunter waiting 45 mins to follow up on a shot is out of an abundance of caution to never bump/chase a wounded animal that will bed and expire if not pushed. Nonetheless, by the stopwatch, game on the average dies about as fast as a similar shot with a rifle. The one edge a rifle has is hydrostatic shock causing an animal instant death by a stroke from the gas bubble reversing arterial flow in a nanosecond. The one edge of a broadhead is that a cut to the vitals puts the animal in painless shock. I’ve personally watched my son shoot game with his bow (its a very quiet bow with a very heavy, very sharp arrow). The game jumped for a second, two dozen other animals in the herd couldn’t figure why he jumped and continued feeding. He just stood there thinking he must have been bit by a horsefly and he expired in less than ten seconds.

Bow hunting can be ethical. Rifle hunting can be ethical. Good judgment is required for both but I assure you that archery isn’t defacto more likely to wound game or cause undue suffering.

I’m glad you brought up the topic, better to chat it out than to hold an unstated grudge with a fellow group of the hunting community.

 

[Tanks]

Legal issues aside, how many people would hunt buffalo without backup even with a rifle? ...

This guy in Australia did and it was water buffalo not a cape buffalo.

 

[TERMINATOR]

The data is overwhelming that archery does not maim more animals than a rifle. When done correctly, death can be extremely quick. T

"When done correctly". With that I agree 100%

But you deflected off the topic of who is wounding more deer onto "Bows can kill as good as guns....IF DONE CORRECTLY". This glosses over the points I brought up above....that there are a lot of guys out there shooting arrows at animals that are just honestly not proficient with their bows. Guys that are not true "Bow Hunters" but do in fact go hunting with their bows. Bows that they have not shot very much. They just take a few shots with their bow right before opening day of bow season and then go hunting out of a stand with their bows so they can hunt more.

THAT sums up a helluva lot of "bow hunters" and those guys wound a helluva lot of deer. Way more percentage wise than gun hunters.

So yea, a double lung shot deer dies just as quick if not quicker with a bow as a gun. THE PROBLEM is there are lot of guys out there hunting with bows and shooting at deer at ranges of which they are much less likely to make a clean double lung shot. And they are doing it when there is no snow on the ground to help them track.

The demand for tracking dogs in the state I hunt (Michigan) is off the charts during bow season. And not very high during gun season. There is a reason for that. Most of the guys out hunting are way better at shooting their guns than they are their bows.

As I stated above....guys that are true "Bow Hunters" and are skilled enough to stalk game on foot and get within bow range....those guys are in a whole different class than the guy who is a gun hunter that also shoots at animals with a bow. Those guys shoot their bows a lot if not year around and I have the utmost respect for those guys.

 

[rookhawk]

"When done correctly". With that I agree 100%

But this glosses over the points I brought up above....that there are a lot of guys out there shooting arrows at animals that are just honestly not proficient with their bows. Guys that are not true "Bow Hunters" but do in fact go hunting with their bows. Bows that they have not shot very much. They just take a few shots with their bow just before opening day of bow season and then go hunting out of a stand with their bows so they can hunt more.

THAT sums up a helluva lot of "bow hunters" and those guys wound a helluva lot of deer.

So yea, a double lung shot deer dies just as quick if not quicker with a bow as a gun. THE PROBLEM is there are lot of guys out there hunting with bows and shooting at deer at ranges of which they are much less likely to make a clean double lung shot. And they are doing it when there is no snow on the ground to help them track.

The demand for tracking dogs in the state I hunt (Michigan) is off the charts during bow season. And not very high during gun season. There is a reason for that. Most of the guys out hunting are way better at shooting their guns than they are their bows.

As I stated above....guys that are true "Bow Hunters" and are skilled enough to stalk game on foot and get within bow range....those guys are in a whole different class than the guy who is a gun hunter that also shoots at animals with a bow. Those guys shoot their bows a lot if not year around and I have the utmost respect for those guys

But the data is the data. Good and bad rifleman and bow hunters wound and fail to recover their game at equivalent rates.

Here’s a good summary of a ton of Archery studies that have been done. The rifle studies I can link as well, they line up similarly. https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/content/articles/fate-of-deer-truth-bowhunting-wounding-rates

So we’re left loathing irresponsible hunters but method of take isn’t relevant or the problem based upon the data. When it comes to African dangerous game bow hunting, its more likely to attract the very wrong kind of bow hunter and the sensationalism in the media when a bowhunt goes bad is much higher because its more peculiar. (Read: newsworthy) Case and point would be Cecil’s dentist who opted not to have the PH end the hunt with a bullet because he insisted on getting his lion kill in the archery record books. In the midst of a protracted recovery the media was all over the story for a myriad number of reasons. A responsible and discreet bow hunter would have made the good shot or asked for the PH to back him, ignored the record book, and left with a great experience and an animal that didn’t suffer needlessly.

 

[TERMINATOR]

But the data is the data. Good and bad rifleman and bow hunters wound and fail to recover their game at equivalent rates.

Here’s a good summary of a ton of Archery studies that have been done. The rifle studies I can link as well, they line up similarly. https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/content/articles/fate-of-deer-truth-bowhunting-wounding-rates

So we’re left loathing irresponsible hunters but method of take isn’t relevant or the problem based upon the data. When it comes to African dangerous game bow hunting, its more likely to attract the very wrong kind of bow hunter and the sensationalism in the media when a bowhunt goes bad is much higher because its more peculiar. (Read: newsworthy) Case and point would be Cecil’s dentist who opted not to have the PH end the hunt with a bullet because he insisted on getting his lion kill in the archery record books. In the midst of a protracted recovery the media was all over the story for a myriad number of reasons. A responsible and discreet bow hunter would have made the good shot or asked for the PH to back him, ignored the record book, and left with a great experience and an animal that didn’t suffer needlessly.

Yea, I would think you had better have a proven track record of stalking animals on foot and drilling arrows in the kill zone before you should even consider hunting DG with a bow.

It is easy to figure out who the real bow hunters are. All you gotta do is ask one question..."how often do you shoot your bow outside of hunting season?" That one question will tell you if the person is a true "Bow Hunter" And if the answer isn't "multiple days a week for most of the year(or all year)" ....you can bet the chance of that person wounding a animal with a bow is very high and they have zero business hunting DG with a bow.

And you damn sure better be good with the PH dropping the animal with a rifle if you screw up the shot

 

[TERMINATOR]

This guy in Australia did and it was water buffalo not a cape buffalo.

View attachment 487459

Hope he was the hunter and not the guide/PH.

#StupidHurts

 

[mrpoindexter]

Guys that are not true "Bow Hunters" but do in fact go hunting with their bows. Bows that they have not shot very much. They just take a few shots with their bow right before opening day of bow season and then go hunting out of a stand with their bows so they can hunt more.

THAT sums up a helluva lot of "bow hunters" and those guys wound a helluva lot of deer. Way more percentage wise than gun hunters.

That sounds to me like a lot of rifle hunters grabbing a bow and then tanking the bow hunting averages.

I am all for proficiency tests to get your bow hunting license/tag. I had to attend a hunter safety course here in California. It would have been just as easy to go and do a shooting test to prove proficiency with the weapon of choice.

I have personally seen rifle hunters out during bow season and looked at their gear only to see their arrows didn't even have the same weight - they were off as much as 50 grains between the lightest and heaviest. It was ridiculous.

But the data is the data. Good and bad rifleman and bow hunters wound and fail to recover their game at equivalent rates.

Here’s a good summary of a ton of Archery studies that have been done. The rifle studies I can link as well, they line up similarly. https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/content/articles/fate-of-deer-truth-bowhunting-wounding-rates

So we’re left loathing irresponsible hunters but method of take isn’t relevant or the problem based upon the data. When it comes to African dangerous game bow hunting, its more likely to attract the very wrong kind of bow hunter and the sensationalism in the media when a bowhunt goes bad is much higher because its more peculiar. (Read: newsworthy) Case and point would be Cecil’s dentist who opted not to have the PH end the hunt with a bullet because he insisted on getting his lion kill in the archery record books. In the midst of a protracted recovery the media was all over the story for a myriad number of reasons. A responsible and discreet bow hunter would have made the good shot or asked for the PH to back him, ignored the record book, and left with a great experience and an animal that didn’t suffer needlessly.

If you think the Cecil thing could have been avoided with a PH shooting it earlier, I am sorry, but I do not agree at all. The animal rights groups will take any chance they get to bash hunting. If Cecil was shot with a rifle and died in 10 seconds, they still would have been complaining with the same made-up falsehoods they did against Walt. I actually think Cecil is one of the best examples of why we should have CBL. None of those animals have a collar and none have a name.

Sometimes, it isn't about getting in the record books but just about doing it with a bow. Giraffe are not in the record books anywhere, but I still wanted my giraffe hunt to be a pure bow kill and not a rifle assisted hunt.

 

[TERMINATOR]

That sounds to me like a lot of rifle hunters grabbing a bow and then tanking the bow hunting averages.

I am all for proficiency tests to get your bow hunting license/tag. I had to attend a hunter safety course here in California. It would have been just as easy to go and do a shooting test to prove proficiency with the weapon of choice.

I have personally seen rifle hunters out during bow season and looked at their gear only to see their arrows didn't even have the same weight - they were off as much as 50 grains between the lightest and heaviest. It was ridiculous.

That is EXACTLY what I have said .... twice. And what I named as the cause for the majority of wasted animals shot in bow season...twice.

And I wish to god people would have to demonstrate proficiency with a bow to bow hunt. Or a gun to gun hunt

But that will never happen.

 

[freefall]

Why would you want to shoot a giraffe? I don't get zebras either.

 

[dchum]

Why would you want to shoot a giraffe? I don't get zebras either.

and why not? They are both beautiful creatures, just like all my favorite game.
Ill be going for mountain zebra in Namibia come May. Ive heard getting in range of a nice stallion will be one of the more challenging hunts. I never got the no Zebra thing? You are not in your home land!! its not your pet horse...!

 

[freefall]

Ah heck, I liked the above and can't undo it,
I don't see any trophy value in the two named species so would not care to shoot one.
YMMV.
Go for it, Buckwheat.