Discussion in 'Firearms & Ammunition' started by IdaRam, Jan 23, 2015.
this thread has gone
I stand corrected, matt.
Sorry 'bout that
so has any one doe any testing with these yet?
I picked up a box of them at the SCI shot but haven't loaded them into cartridges yet.
I was able to get 2 boxes at the SCI show, and the price was really good. I wont state it here because it was a deal Swift provides to PHs at the show and I was with a PH friend when I bought mine and was afforded the same price. If I had to guess, Im betting the street price will be around 1.75 to 2 bucks a bang. That is only a guess! We talked quite a while about the design of the new bullet and I examined recovered bullets in various calibers, all displaying the same characteristics. I will list Swifts comments below:
The bullet is larger in diameter on the rear half only, to adequately engage rifling but reduce pressure.
The metallurgy and use of a lead core reduces bore wear significantly over a homogenous brass/gilding metal solid design. Important for use in older doubles
The plastic tip is to ensure that the rounds dont drag in the mag box
Upon impact the tip of the bullet, smaller than caliber diameter and housing the plastic ball, will set back (rivet) slightly leaving the projectile nose just a hair under the full caliber diameter. In their testing this provided the best penetration while ensuring smooth feeding in bolt actions. This set back also provides for a larger entrance wound than typical solids while not affecting penetration.
The bullets I examined all exhibited this slight set back and otherwise looked like they could be reloaded and shot again, meaning, damn near perfect.
The bullets I looked at were recovered from elephant and buffalo (Texas heart shot on the buff, Frontal brain on the elephant) and some from newsprint. They all looked identical across all calibers.
Ive been a Barnes fan based on real performance in the field and over the last couple of years have all but switched to their bullets in nearly all of my reloading from .243 to .375. I have never shot an A-Frame or Scirocco bullet so Im hardly a paid spokesman. As you may know Barnes cant sell their 375, 300 grain solids as they are locked in a battle with the Govt over armor piercing related BS.
So I saw these, got a deal good enough to try them, and if they shoot will take them with me when I return to Africa next year. I will say that I was impressed with how nice the SWIFT folks were at their booth, very proud of their product, very willing to answer my stupid questions, and then knowing my personal faith in a competitors product, gave me a deal as an enticement to switch. Cant beat that in my book, so I will give them a fair and honest try. There should be a lot of field testing in the near future, they all but sold out their inventory at the show.
I've got some 570g A-Frames, they shoot well out of my 500 Jeffery. Since elephant is nowhere in my near future unless I win the lottery I will depend on reports from you'all ..
The design is interesting, and applies a number of things that have been researched and worked on by several small/medium scale premium bullet manufacturers in recent years, and by the folks mentioned above by PaulT.
A question, though: why no driving bands? These seem to have an unquestionable positive effect on pressure in bolt and doubles alike.
Apologies for the resurrecting this old thread.... But has anyone seen these Swift solids on the shelf of a store yet or used them in anger?
It's an odd design. Aren't they giving up a lot of initial energy transfer by going to a round nose and then also having it reduced diameter vs. the rest of the bullet?
The plastic round nose is just for feeding. Woodleigh does the same with the Hydro, which by the way has a similar "dish" in the nose, although it does not deform like this one does.
The reduction in diameter is insignificant in terms of energy transfer, what really matters is the nose shape. Have to see how they behave in the field, as people start using them the feedback will come in.
In the photos are they showing the expanded round next to the solid or is that an A-Frame and the solid has only very minimal upset?
according to Swift these solids are made from much softer brass then other brass solids which is how they get away with not having bands. these solids seem to operate more like North Fork cup point solids which expand to some degree. I consider this to be a bonus as it should cause more damage then traditional round nose bullets while still getting better penetration then traditional expanding bullets. sort of a middle ground between solids and softs.
Probably good for Buffalo in the heavier calibers, but when looking to brain an elephant, it would seem that the expansion would have to work against penetration.
Interestingly, for those subscribers to Handloader Magazine, an article was written in Handloader (April 2016) by John Barsness who did some in depth testing of the new, Swift Solids in a 375 H&H Magnum. It was an interesting article that described the theory behind the design, as relayed by the Swift CEO, Bill Hober. It was interesting to read also why they chose the lead core solid design over the monolithic brass or bronze bullets that have become popular as of late. Apparently, it was because lead is more compressible, and in vintage rifles (esp double) that may have nominal bore diameters that are smaller than standard, this was desirable. Apparently, the Swift CEO is a big vintage double rifle nut, and wanted a bullet than would function well in those as well. Anyways, a very well written article.
Overall, the bullets received a glowing review from Mr. Barsness, and more interestingly, he was able to get the Swift Solids to impact very close to the same POI as the Swift A-frames with an equal charge of IMR 4350. The bullets penetrated very well (better as compared to a traditional RN FMJ solid and a flat-point monolithic solid they were compared against), and more importantly straight, which was theorized to occur as a result of cavitation from the cup-point design of the tip. Furthermore, Mr. Hober, several PH's, and hunters have used these solids in Africa in 2015/2016, and the field reports, at least as relayed by Mr. Hober (take it for what it's worth), is very positive.
Anyway, it was an interesting read.....It seems like these would be dandy for those that love the Swift A-frames as their "soft" bullet. They are supposed to be offered in diameters of 9.3 mm and up whenever they are released to the masses....
I seriously doubt this bullet would have any trouble penetrating the skull of an elephant. the expansion is sub-caliber (doesn't open wider then bullet diameter) so I don't see it doing anything other then creating a larger permanent cavity.
here is a picture I found online:
I got the picture from here: http://echolsrifles.blogspot.com/2015/02/sci-2015-high-lights-swift-bullet.html
I presume the bullets 3rd and 5th from the left are A-Frames or at least not the solids in question.
That looks like a brass bullet with a hollow base filled with lead.
If so, it is reminiscent of the Belt Mountain Punch Bullets:
We shot some 430 and 450 grain ones from a 45-70 and they punched right through our 5/8 inch steel body outline practice target from a range of 50 yards!
At the same range, all copper bullets just went splat on the steel and made pretty little flat copper snowflakes. My daughter made earrings from some of them.
never seen an expanded A-frame before?
yes, the two expanded bullets are A-frames and given the discoloration I presume all these bullets were pulled from dead animals.
id happily try these out on game but they are still difficult to get and I don't believe they are even making .505" or .510" bullets yet.
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