My first African hunt rifle question

[mjl1987]

Gentleman,

I am booking my first trip with my best friend to go to Africa. We are buying .375 H&H as our caliber of choice and to have the same ammo etc. I have a line on two rifles one is a cz550 custom with a 20" barrel glass bedded etc. the other is a 25" same glass bedding. The only difference being the length of barrel.

Cost aside, is their a major downside to going with the 20". I am leaning towards it due to mobility and comfort of movement. My concerns are muzzle blast and reduced velocity. I could not find any conclusive ballistic charts showing the FPS loss from a 5" shorter barrel.

I can get these rifles at a pretty strong discount vs if I go out and have them build this and cut a standard 25" down.

Basically my question is am I crazy to want the 20" over the 25"?

I apologize if this is covered in the past but I could not find anything using the search. Thank you again

 

[gillettehunter]

A good friend of mine shoots a .300 WM a lot and tells me most rifles in that range lose 25-50 FPS per inch of barrel. Likely close for the .375 too. So maybe 100 FPS to at most 150FPS would be my thoughts. A little more noise. Likely you won't tell a lot of difference. The shorter barrel will be a lot easier to get around in the bush with. Good luck. Bruce

 

[Velo Dog]

Gentleman,

I am booking my first trip with my best friend to go to Africa. We are buying .375 H&H as our caliber of choice and to have the same ammo etc. I have a line on two rifles one is a cz550 custom with a 20" barrel glass bedded etc. the other is a 25" same glass bedding. The only difference being the length of barrel.

Cost aside, is their a major downside to going with the 20". I am leaning towards it due to mobility and comfort of movement. My concerns are muzzle blast and reduced velocity. I could not find any conclusive ballistic charts showing the FPS loss from a 5" shorter barrel.

I can get these rifles at a pretty strong discount vs if I go out and have them build this and cut a standard 25" down.

Basically my question is am I crazy to want the 20" over the 25"?

I apologize if this is covered in the past but I could not find anything using the search. Thank you again

mjl1987,

Welcome to the best forum.

Your question is very valid and definitely worth asking.

1. Your Tracker's ear drums and your PH's ear drums might appreciate the longer barrel.

2. In the event you decide for some reason to have the 20" barrel, unless you are hunting in wide open conditions, the most commonly encountered African conditions are such that, any slight reduction in velocity from a shorter barrel will mean absolutely nothing to your personal success and your personal enjoyment of your safari/s.
It seems like I read somewhere that, with super high intensity / hyper-velocity type cartridges (.264 Winchester, .257 Weatherby, etc.), you lose about 50 fps per inch removed.
And for more "main-stream" pressure / velocity type cartridges, (such as the .30-06, .375 H&H, etc.), you lose about 35 fps, per inch removed.

3. I have hunted in Alaska and Africa both with the .375, using hand-loaded 300 gr, usually round nose bullets but, sometimes Nosler Partitions (semi-spitzer) at "only" 2400 fps.
I have always enjoyed 100% perfect success with this arrangement.

4. My next safari is booked for the mountains of central Namibia and I will be using a .375 H&H again.
But this time, due to the very open geography and foliage (very similar to northern Nevada, parts of Arizona, and such places), I will be shooting 250 grain Sierra spitzers, at 2600 fps.
Upon my return, eventually I shall post a long and dreadfully tedious rant about how it all went, including bullet performance.

Incidentally, my personal .375 is a Brno Mauser, with 25" barrel and I am about 6' tall, no problems carrying a 25" barreled magnum sized Mauser, in the bush of many hunts total (mostly Alaska but somewhat in Africa as well).
Likewise, for my very first safari, I used a custom built Mauser .300 H&H, also coincidently with 25" barrel (Gunsmith wanted to make it 26" so, we compromised - lol).
The rifle I will be using this time belongs to the PH (Philip Hennings, a fellow member and one of the sponsors within this forum) and it is identical to my Brno .375, with 25" barrel and all (slightly different scope though but, that actually means little to nothing).
At the end of the day, it is my opinion that, the perfect barrel length for my taste (or lack thereof) on bolt action hunting rifles is around 24" and on doubles or single shots, it is around 26".
However, one of my friends who, was born here in Alaska, (Ed Marsters) to this day often hunts with a 20" barreled, older Remington Model 700, in .375 H&H.

Ed stands well over 6', I will guess he's about 6'-3" or so, nonetheless, he prefers the short barrel.
As tall as he is, I'd say his rifle to him would be about like me carrying one with perhaps a 16" barrel.
He has taken so many animals with that rifle that nobody can argue that he should do any different.
So, to each his own.
But for me personally, unless I wanted to hunt in heavy tropical rain forest / super-thick jungle, I would not want a very short barrel, as I feel the balance of a bolt action rifle is usually about right for me with around a 24" barrel.

Cheers,
Velo Dog.

 

[spike.t]

been waiting for Mr VD to answer as i somehow knew what he was going to say.... me i dont like the long 25 inch cz barrels or any long barrels. both my cz are quite a bit shorter than 25 inches at 20 inches and 21 inches. so i would go for the 20 inch one, but 22 inches is what most of my rifles have had .and 24 inches for a double

and welcome aboard

 

[Witold Krzyżanowski]

Welcome to AH mjl1987.
I agree with Velo Dog.
Good loock in Africa.
Witold

 

[mjl1987]

This forum is great, I have been reading up quite a bit but this is exactly the kind of info I am looking for. I am 6'3" so for me its more the handiness of 20 vs 25. Unfortunately I do not have the ability to handle the rifles beforehand. I have a savage long range hunter in 300 win mag, I lugged it all around the woods in upstate new York and found that to be a serious pain. I also have a savage lightweight hunter on 3006 with a 20" barrel. It wasn't sighted in by the time I had to get to NY. While it kicks rather strong, I find its 20" barrel much easier to manage.

It sounds like the 25" will have a bit more velocity (anywhere between 150-250FPS) and a bit less muzzle blast. This is a tough choice

 

[Goose Cracker]

I bought the CZ 550 American Safari Magnum with the aramid stock and 25" barrel. It's a fun gun to shoot and pretty darn accurate with factory ammo. I did get the trigger upgraded to a Timney.

Regarding barrel length, I think the 20" would be much easier to get around with. The 25" I have points well and the extra weight helps with recoil. Still, you don't lose much with shorter barrels at "normal" hunting distances. My experience with factory ammo and shorter barrels is that the velocity drop is less than 20-25 fps per inch - at least that's what my chrony tells me. More like 10-15 fps per inch.

I may end up getting my 375 H&H barrel cut down and a removable muzzle break added for better comfort when dialing it in at the bench.

 

[mjl1987]

Brutal choice I have to make, Part of me says go with the 25" and it is too long I could get it cut down to 20". The 25 winds up being about $500 more. Both have the bedding, trigger and bolt accurizing done..

Best Regards,
Mike

 

[Goose Cracker]

What ever you decide, don't do it based on $500. That's my final advice. Every time I've made a decision based on price I seem to regret the decision. I know it's $500 and money doesn't grow on trees, but how many CZ 550s in 375 H&H are you planning to purchase?

With that said, you can make a 25" barrel a 20" barrel but not the other way 'round!

 

[mjl1987]

Agreed 100% on the price should not effect choice. I just do not have a lot of experience in 375 H&H. for those who have fired one, is the muzzle blast appreciably worse on the 20?

 

[thi9elsp]

I can't weigh in on the shorter barrel. I have a CZ550 375H&H with the longer barrel. It shoots more comfortably to me than my Browning Stainless Stalker in 30-06. I like the weight and don't feel any recoil with the CZ. I carried the longer barrel around Zimbabwe for 10 days and it never bothered me. I'm 5'9". I did a lot of 15 lb dumb bell per arm curls - high reps (20+) and 5 sets.

 

[Code4]

Don't think about velocity.
Where are you hunting ? Unless its really thick (I mean bend over every second step thick) bush, 20" won't give you any advantages.
25" will be far more pleasant to shoot.
How long is your gun case ? Will the 25" fit ?
Where else will you use this rifle ?

 

[mjl1987]

In theory Alaska is next on the trip list where I would anticipate the 375. Muzzle blast is certainly my biggest concern(and the big reason holding me back). I am 80% ready to pull the trigger on the 20" but that is probably my biggest concern (muzzle blast being overly blinding/loud).

I just keep gravitating towards a shorter barrel for handiness but it seems here many people with more experience advocate the longer barrel.

 

[Velo Dog]

In theory Alaska is next on the trip list where I would anticipate the 375. Muzzle blast is certainly my biggest concern(and the big reason holding me back). I am 80% ready to pull the trigger on the 20" but that is probably my biggest concern (muzzle blast being overly blinding/loud).

I just keep gravitating towards a shorter barrel for handiness but it seems here many people with more experience advocate the longer barrel.

Muzzle blast of the .375, between a 20" barrel and 25" barrel is not huge but the difference is enough to be slightly noticeable.

That being said, it appears that you posted your question, in hopes of validating your desire to buy the short barreled one.

So, my recommendation is that you buy it and enjoy it.

Some folks definitely prefer short barrels on their hunting rifles and there is nothing "wrong" with that.

It will be slightly louder on your Tracker's and PH's ears but, it's not like a .375 is a quiet caliber when fired from a few inches longer barrel in the first place.

If I was bringing a 20" barreled rifle to a guided hunt, I would discuss it with whichever PH I was thinking about booking with, sometime before sending my deposit, so it would be no surprise to him or her, when I opened up my rifle box on that first day.

It likely won't change anything between you and the PH anyway, except in discussing it beforehand, you very likely will win his or her respect by your gentlemanly concern for them.

Most all of them being the gracious souls that they are, will probably say something like, "Thank you for mentioning your short barreled rifle but, do bring it anyway, as it will be no problem for us here".

Mr. Spike.T is a Zambian PH / Lodge Owner and he likes 20" barreled bolt action rifles so, there obviously are even one or more African PH's that, own and use short barreled rifles themselves.

 

[wesheltonj]

Well here's my 2 cents. My SAKO 375 classic has a 24" and change, and it is not too heavy, long, etc. That said, the 20" barrel would be a great choice if you want to put a suppressor on the end of that gun, and if that's your plan then I think the 20" makes a lot of sense. I am sure that I would not buy a 5" shorter barrel just to "save" $500.

 

[Buckdog]

For what its worth I don't like short barrel rifles in magnum calibers. I think it throws the balance off esp when you mount a scope on it. If I were you I would buy the 25' and cut it down to 24 if I was feeling picky. A 20' barrel 375 just seem weird and off to me and wouldn't like the velocity loss either you need some barrel to burn up all that powder.
And carry weight issue?? Really its a 375 not a mtn rig.

 

[James Cook]

you may have already made up your mind on make and model, but if not, the ruger #1 in a 375 H&H could be what you're looking for - shorter overall length gun w/ longer barrel. 23" +/- barrel, overall length gun 42"+/-. i took one to africa and it performed and handled very well.

 

[IvW]

I would stick to the standard 25 inch barrel.

 

[Grady]

I have read all the above posts on your subject and for some reason feel I need to add my two cents.

Velocity - 100 fps vs 200 fps, even 300 fps does not make a difference if you put the shot where it is supposed to be....Most animal can not tell the difference
20" vs 25" - the shorter barrel will be easier to maneuver in the bush....and if you dont like it, sell it....
Alaska vs Africa - no comparison, but the length of your "barrel" should not make a difference if you know how to handle" it...

Bottom line, if you are at 80%, you have already made your decision and are looking for a reason not to get the shorter one. Go with it, practice a lot, talk to your PH, and don't look in the rear view mirror. Remember the rear view mirror is a lot smaller than the windshield because you should spend most of your time looking forward and not behind you.

Comment brought to you by Buffalo Trace Bourbon.... Smooth.......

 

[spike.t]

Mr. Spike.T is a Zambian PH / Lodge Owner

hi Mr VD never kind of got around to getting a licence due to being in and out of this country, and taking people to other countries on hunts over the years , even though a ph friend in tanzania was trying one time to get me to sort it there to do something with him. so just a plain owner with the odd opinion and a bit of experience , and getting on too much now to have the patience of examinations these days . cheers mike