Huntable non-indigenous, introduced species in RSA or Namibia?

[mark-hunter]

Dear colleagues,

What are huntable non-indigenous, introduced species in RSA or Namibia?

For example: there is a fallow deer on package offered. Fallow is the species that originates from eastern mediteranean. Another good example might be black wildebeest hunting in Namibia. (if not being wrong)

Are there other similar examples, especially for African species introduced locally, out of their natural range, in Namibia or South Africa?

In selfsustainable breeding populations, either in fence or free roaming?

Especially the species which are not accessible to international hunters in other African countries, due to budget or legal constraints. (ban on hunting, etc).

I was not able to find similar subject on the forum using search options, so I made the new thread.

 

[IvW]

A few come to mind:

Fallow deer
Red Lechwe
Kafue or Black shoulder lechwe
Scimitar horned ibex
Indian Blackbuck
Aoudad or Barbary sheep
European Wild boar
Red Deer
Himalayan Tahr(not huntable)
American Bison(non huntable)
Axis deer
Hog deer
Sambar deer
Asian water buffalo
Mouflon sheep
Addax
Nubian Ibex
Puku
Defassa waterbuck
Arabian oryx
Livingstone Eland
Forest buffalo
Lichtenstein hartebeest

That about sums it up. Huntability of all the species is not quite clear.

 

[mark-hunter]

That about sums it up. Huntability of all the species is not quite clear.

Hmmmmm... For sure it is something, and not what i was hoping for...
Tahr looks very appealing to me, (but as you say not huntable), then forest buffalo, wow! thats something....

It would be interesting to find out if there are any present projects ongoing of introduction of other species?

And what are the limiting factors of introduction, like legal, environmental, etc..?

 

[Hunting Sailor]

There are also some of the normal species that have been introduced to areas within RSA where they are not indigenous, Nyala, Sable, Gemsbok, Impala comes to mind, but I’m sure there are other cases as well.

 

[IvW]

Hmmmmm... For sure it is something, and not what i was hoping for...
Tahr looks very appealing to me, (but as you say not huntable), then forest buffalo, wow! thats something....

It would be interesting to find out if there are any present projects ongoing of introduction of other species?

And what are the limiting factors of introduction, like legal, environmental, etc..?

The Thar are on Table mountain and surrounds and authorities are actually trying to eradicate them.

Forgot about Bengal tigers!

 

[mark-hunter]

Forgot about Bengal tigers!

What I understand they are (possibly) huntable, but absolutely non-exportable.
However, I did not have tigers in mind.

Actually when asking the question, I was considering other harder-to-get species such as: lesser kudu, east African gazzeles, mountain nyala, gerenuk, may I add bongo, or Lord Derby Eland... should some game farmer had such opportunity or initiative?

 

[Roan]

A few come to mind:

Fallow deer
Red Lechwe
Kafue or Black shoulder lechwe
Scimitar horned ibex
Indian Blackbuck
Aoudad or Barbary sheep
European Wild boar
Red Deer
Himalayan Tahr(not huntable)
American Bison(non huntable)
Axis deer
Hog deer
Sambar deer
Asian water buffalo
Mouflon sheep
Addax
Nubian Ibex
Puku
Defassa waterbuck
Arabian oryx
Livingstone Eland
Forest buffalo
Lichtenstein hartebeest

That about sums it up. Huntability of all the species is not quite clear.

Do you know who has Puku?? Would be interested.

Cheers

 

[spike.t]

Do you know who has Puku?? Would be interested.

Cheers

............yeah i know......but sorry they are in their natural range area......

 

[KAROO WILD Safaris]

Nyala and waterbuck in Namibia. Not sure about black wildebeest. Think they only originally occurred in the Free State and Eastern Cape Privinces of South Africa.

Red lechwe in SA

 

[Red Leg]

Interesting. I would have about as much interest shooting a forest buffalo, LDE, or Bongo on a game farm in Texas as off one in South Africa or Namibia. And I am not saying that there is anything wrong or even unethical with it. HOWEVER, for those species it would be the effort and adventure of the hunt that would have the most meaning to me (like cape buffalo). I mean how do you talk about that great bongo hunt over a wee dram with other folks who hunt the continent when the story begins with a three-hour drive from Johannesburg or Windhoek?

 

[mark-hunter]

Interesting. I would have about as much interest shooting a forest buffalo, LDE, or Bongo on a game farm in Texas as off one in South Africa or Namibia. And I am not saying that there is anything wrong or even unethical with it. HOWEVER, for those species it would be the effort and adventure of the hunt that would have the most meaning to me (like cape buffalo). I mean how do you talk about that great bongo hunt over a wee dram with other folks who hunt the continent when the story begins with a three-hour drive from Johannesburg or Windhoek?

I thought that this question will come up sooner or later.

However, when starting the thread I was thinking more of facts and realistic possibilities of other hunts, not of ethical or similar issues of personal preferences.

But nothing is black and white, there are shades and varieties.

For example it would never occur to me to hunt Bengal tiger anywhere else but India, and yet it is present in RSA.

On the other hand, personally I see nothing wrong in hunting black wildebeest in Namibia.
Black Wildebeest is south African animal, just "slightly" relocated to neighboring country and similar habitat.

When you mentioned bongo, personally I do think, it is not the real thing as hunting him in his natural habitat of central African rain forest, for sure.
But when mentioning mountain nyala, I also do not see anything wrong, in hunting him in mountain regions of south africa, for example.

There are also countries closed to hunting, which have their own indigenous species, species which are not present anywhere else and probably declining in numbers.

Now Angola comes to mind, and eventual possibility to hunt giant sable - somewhere else, introdoced in similar habitat.
Why not introduce it to Namibia?

I think we will all mostly agree there is not much game management in Angola, giant sable was considered practically extinct, till after the war with several reporting sightings.

So such move, of introducing giant sable to other country, might also be beneficial to saving the species.

Bottom line, there are various aspects.

Personally, from hunters point of view I would be interested in some hunting options of introduced species, and then in some I would not.
As I said, hunting tahr, or mountain nyala in the hills of RSA - why not?
Hunting forest bongo in RSA, probably not for me.

But in this respect and in the interest of my point, lets call bongo actually eastern mountain bongo of Kenya, to introduce in hills of RSA, then it might give us a different view on this subject.

 

[Red Leg]

I thought that this question will come up sooner or later.

However, when starting the thread I was thinking more of facts and realistic possibilities of other hunts, not of ethical or similar issues of personal preferences.

But nothing is black and white, there are shades and varieties.

For example it would never occur to me to hunt Bengal tiger anywhere else but India, and yet it is present in RSA.

On the other hand, personally I see nothing wrong in hunting black wildebeest in Namibia.
Black Wildebeest is south African animal, just "slightly" relocated to neighboring country and similar habitat.

When you mentioned bongo, personally I do think, it is not the real thing as hunting him in his natural habitat of central African rain forest, for sure.
But when mentioning mountain nyala, I also do not see anything wrong, in hunting him in mountain regions of south africa, for example.

There are also countries closed to hunting, which have their own indigenous species, species which are not present anywhere else and probably declining in numbers.

Now Angola comes to mind, and eventual possibility to hunt giant sable - somewhere else, introdoced in similar habitat.
Why not introduce it to Namibia?

I think we will all mostly agree there is not much game management in Angola, giant sable was considered practically extinct, till after the war with several reporting sightings.

So such move, of introducing giant sable to other country, might also be beneficial to saving the species.

Bottom line, there are various aspects.

Personally, from hunters point of view I would be interested in some hunting options of introduced species, and then in some I would not.
As I said, hunting tahr, or mountain nyala in the hills of RSA - why not?
Hunting forest bongo in RSA, probably not for me.

But in this respect and in the interest of my point, lets call bongo actually eastern mountain bongo of Kenya, to introduce in hills of RSA, then it might give us a different view on this subject.

I think, philosophically, you and I are actually pretty closely aligned. I have no issue with any "reintroduced" game, and frankly, very little objection to game expanding into terrain similar to its native environment. My problem is the game ranch environment itself. And I hasten to add, I don't include the large private enclosures or conservancies which contain self sustaining herds of animal X. But I have seen the other type of business model as well. I have had the good fortune to hunt the vast majority of African game animals I have taken in their natural ranges (my first waterbuck in Namibia was an exception). The Roosevelt sable I have taken in Mozambique, are smaller than most coming off game farms, but in their native range, they were almost a different species to hunt. Free ranging Cape and Livingstone Eland are another example of incredibly different and wary free-range animal. Creating a pure strain and breeding population of giant sable outside of Angola has to be a worthy endeavor. But how they were hunted and under what conditions would matter to me a great deal. For instance, I have chased red lechwe in the Caprivi off and on for ten days without success. I have no desire to simply shoot one for the wall on a South African game farm.

 

[mark-hunter]

Philosophical, and ethical matters clarified, we may add additional aspect, and that is economical.

Introduction of non - indigenous species on the farms may undoubtedly bring economical benefits to game farmers.
And also, in time, will bring possibility of budget hunt of those species for hunters of blue collar class.

This would make possible to hunt high dollar species for middle class hunters which are presently not huntable to them for the simple reasons of high cost. (or for the reason that animals country of origin is closed to hunting by local laws)
This would be "If it pays - it stays" proven model - improved.

For many of rarer species the habitat is undoubtedly shrinking, for various reasons (lets take bongo for example).
High dollar hunting could be profitable in their natural habitat
(or at least economically sustainable for the outfitter to last for some time, and heavily depending of local political stability very often on weak balance),
but the fact of shrinking habitat remains, despite the efforts or eventual funding of conservation through hunting.

High dollar hunting is not always sufficient to prevent the decline. Poaching, logging, encroachment, development, constructions, and roads are simply not stopping despite all the efforts or presence of high cost outfitting and legalized hunting in some countries.

So, introduction of a species elsewhere to more... hmmm... welcoming grounds.. can partially solve the problem by artificial expansion of habitat, after natural is being gradually reduced

And also basically for those who can not afford "the real thing", to have option of more economical hunt, a subject to personal choice and ethics.

So, I see this as a win-win solution.
The fact is the world is changing. Africa is continuously changing. Habitats and rain forests are reducing, We can not be certain to have the same rain forest for hunting for ever, not even for the wealthy.

Thus the point of this topic, and actual possibilities offered in Namiba and RSA, as of now.

 

[IvW]

Below are probably the ones that are realistically available for hunting.

Fallow deer
Red Lechwe
Kafue or Black shoulder lechwe
Scimitar horned ibex
Indian Blackbuck
Aoudad or Barbary sheep
European Wild boar
Livingstone Eland

As for Puku, I would follow Mike Taylor's advise, Zambia is possibly the best place to hunt them.

 

[mark-hunter]

Thanks, IvW!

 

[Hank2211]

This is an interesting subject.

I have no issue with any "reintroduced" game, and frankly, very little objection to game expanding into terrain similar to its native environment.

Introduction of non - indigenous species on the farms may undoubtedly bring economical benefits to game farmers.
And also, in time, will bring possibility of budget hunt of those species for hunters of blue collar class.

I don't disagree with these views, but I think we have to be careful about introducing animals. There are two, related, negative consequences of introducing non-native animals. These both relate to the maintenance of biodiversity.

Firstly, allowing different species which had never bred in the wild to breed as a result of introductions can create havoc with species genetic purity. While many different species will not be willing or able to mate, others will, and it is possible that resulting offspring will be fertile, creating hybrids, which can, over time, negatively impact the original species. Take for example blesbok and bontebok. It is illegal, I believe, to keep them together in South Africa, but I have seen this law ignored. The two will mate and produce fertile offspring. This could have long term negative impacts on both original species, but far greater on bontebok, which are not present in any great numbers.

Giant sable and common sable will also inter-breed, producing fertile offspring. Imagine the consequences for giant sable if common sable were to be introduced into Angola to stimulate trophy hunting there. Giant sable could effectively cease to exist as a species within a few generations.

I don't know if mountain nyala will breed with common nyala (they look much more like a bigger bodied kudu than an nyala), but if they could, bringing them to South Africa could be devastating to the nyala, and vice-versa if nyala were moved to Ethiopia.

Last example is moving zebra around. Many Namibian farms or conservancies have introduced Burchell zebra, which will mate with the Hartmann, resulting in a fertile hybrid. You can often tell when you've shot a zebra that something isn't quite right - the stripe pattern of a Burchell with the dewlap and mane of a Hartmann. I've seen it personally.

Second issue is that an introduced species may do so well that it out-competes indigenous species, which become threatened as a result. Another potential loss for diversity.

There are consequences of messing with nature.

 

[mark-hunter]

Certainly a good point!

I did forget to mention the word "responsibility", and "legally regulated".
Legally regulated responsible farming in high fences... could tackle possible risks involved.

It is also very interesting subject of interbred animals.

Does anybody have photo to identify, Burchel/Hartman, blesbok/bontebok, any others?

 

[IvW]

Animals known to crossbreed are:

Blesbok/bontebok
Blesbok/tsessebe
Tsessebe/red hartebeest
Burchel/hartmann
Blesbok/red hartebeest
Kudu/Eland
Blue wildebeest/black wildebeest
Zebra/donkey
Lion/tiger
Roan/sable
Nyala/kudu

 

[PeteG]

Animals known to crossbreed are:

Blesbok/bontebok
Blesbok/tsessebe
Tsessebe/red hartebeest
Burchel/hartmann
Blesbok/red hartebeest
Kudu/Eland
Blue wildebeest/black wildebeest
Zebra/donkey
Lion/tiger
Roan/sable
Nyala/kudu

View attachment 229127

View attachment 229128

View attachment 229134

Looks like Blesbok are a randy bunch...

 

[mark-hunter]

The first photo is kudu/eland crossbreed?

It looks like both of them!

If I saw this in the wild I would have thought I have discovered new species!