How many people have a 35 whelen?

[Rell]

It’s likely the same now.

Just talked to my local gun store owner, he’s a shooting buddy as well.

He says two out of every three rifle he sells over .223 is a 6.5 Creedmore. Been that way for over 3 years.

 

[Lee M]

The Whelen doesn't have the BC of a 300 win but it is faster with the same weight bullets. I'm getting 3280 with 180 grain TTSX. That is certainly faster than a 300 Winn 180 grain. I've owned and shot 300 winn's and 338 Winn decades longer than I've owned a 35 Whelen

But when a 35 Whelen can push a 250 grain bullet to 2745 FPS with a larger frontal area then how is the 338 Winn superior? It isn't.

So with respect to the 300 win and Whelen, you are telling me you can get a 180 grain bullet to go faster out of a cartridge that holds 72.6 grains then you can get from a cartridge that holds 93.6?

How is that possible? Please let me know.

Again, I’m not saying any cartridge is superior, better, classier, etc. Like many things each of us chooses what we like. But we can’t ignore the capacity differences here and have an honest, logical discussion.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

Not grasping at straws at all. A belt is good exactly for what? You may want to read the data again Speer lists 64.1 grains of CFE223 as max with a 250 grain bullet. More frontal area is exactly tha More.

@jwp475
A belt is great for holding your pants up but that's it.
Bob

 

[Forrest Halley]

Not grasping at straws at all. A belt is good exactly for what? You may want to read the data again Speer lists 64.1 grains of CFE223 as max with a 250 grain bullet. More frontal area is exactly tha More.

Belted magnum is just ingrained in my vocabulary. Any magnum is what I meant. The .35 isn't a magnum. Yeah I don't know where that came from I crossed wires somewhere on that load. Frontal area is nothing more than a but, but, but in the debate when it's that small of a difference. I'd maybe listen in relation to a .308 bullet, but not a .338. You're tilting at bloody windmills there.

The Whelen doesn't have the BC of a 300 win but it is faster with the same weight bullets. I'm getting 3280 with 180 grain TTSX. That is certainly faster than a 300 Winn 180 grain. I've owned and shot 300 winn's and 338 Winn decades longer than I've owned a 35 Whelen

But when a 35 Whelen can push a 250 grain bullet to 2745 FPS with a larger frontal area then how is the 338 Winn superior? It isn't.

You're right, it doesn't have the BC of either WM. The answer is blowing in the wind and retained energy downrange. I see you're not mentioning the lesser SD either.
If you're getting 3280 fps with a 180 grain bullet then good for you. Use that bullet for everything. You've got a Chrono show pony that's trash for anything else. Transonic at under 1000 yards. Hits 1500 fpe at 460yds. 300 WM 180 is transonic at 1400 yards and 1500 fpe at 670yds. It nearly pisses away ME like a .458 Lott loaded with a 350 gr flat nose. Big show at the muzzle and then Houston we have a problem...

 

[CBH Australia]

Interesting thread

My .375H&H makes the others redundant and it's a legal DG cartridge in most places.
Now I don't have things that stomp and bite rampaging in my st but the day I do I will be happy I have the .375H&H with more frontal area and case capacity.

I have no horse In this race either.. I'm betting Bob will defend his .35 with passion.

 

[jwp475]

I never quote Kinetic energy figured because they do not relate to lethality. Energy figures don't kill game, holes through vitals is what kills.
Another advantage of the 35 Whelen VS the big fat magnum cartridges is more magazine capacity.
As far how the Whelen is able to get the speeds it does safely we have shown the published data. The published data for the 22-250 max velocity with a 55 grain bullet has always been 3600 FPS. Using CFE223 published data shows 3800 FPS safely. How is that possible? Powder that provides more energy at or below SAAMI max pressure

 

[1dirthawker]

the way the whelen gets more velocity out of a 180 than a 300 mag is because you gain efficiencies when you use the same power plant (case) and go up in bore size. a simple for instance:

7mm rem mag = 3,000 ft lb

338 win mag = 4,000 ft lb

458 win mag = 5,000 ft lb

all the same parent case, yet as bore size opens up, so does the weight of the bullet increase and more energy available.

i suspect if one took a 338, and necked it up it would shoot a 250 gr bullet faster than in its original configuration. although the bc and sectional density would go down.

 

[jwp475]

the way the whelen gets more velocity out of a 180 than a 300 mag is because you gain efficiencies when you use the same power plant (case) and go up in bore size. a simple for instance:

7mm rem mag = 3,000 ft lb

338 win mag = 4,000 ft lb

458 win mag = 5,000 ft lb

all the same parent case, yet as bore size opens up, so does the weight of the bullet increase and more energy available.

i suspect if one took a 338, and necked it up it would shoot a 250 gr bullet faster than in its original configuration. although the bc and sectional density would go down.

358 Norma Mag is for all intents and purposes a necked up 338 win and it is about 100 FPS faster than the 338 win

 

[Forrest Halley]

I often wonder why people who are championing cartridges that in some way lack always get into these deflective talking point campaigns.

Energy transferred to the tissue, bone and nervous system affects kills. To transfer it, you have to have it to start with, conserve it across the flight path, and deliver it effectively upon arrival at target.

I see your point though, with those hideous BCs and SDs I wouldn't be quoting energy either as the turdy-phive holds onto it like a net holds water. A .458 Lott 350gr leaving the station at 2900fps allegedly has 6500 ft-lbs of ME, but it doesn't keep it long. Vroom vroom pfffft! It's a hideous waste of energy.

Magazine capacity!?! Most people here and most all of those making this argument can't cycle the gun fast enough to take advantage of it. You either have to hit the game with authority or have excellent speed of manipulation with your action in order to earn a second shot. Shots three, four and beyond are all resultant of damage caused.

 

[jwp475]

I often wonder why people who are championing cartridges that in some way lack always get into these deflective talking point campaigns.

Energy transferred to the tissue, bone and nervous system affects kills. To transfer it, you have to have it to start with, conserve it across the flight path, and deliver it effectively upon arrival at target.

I see your point though, with those hideous BCs and SDs I wouldn't be quoting energy either as the turdy-phive holds onto it like a net holds water. A .458 Lott 350gr leaving the station at 2900fps allegedly has 6500 ft-lbs of ME, but it doesn't keep it long. Vroom vroom pfffft! It's a hideous waste of energy.

Magazine capacity!?! Most people here and most all of those making this argument can't cycle the gun fast enough to take advantage of it. You either have to hit the game with authority or have excellent speed of manipulation with your action in order to earn a second shot. Shots three, four and beyond are all resultant of damage caused.

You may want to learn a bit more physics. A bullet strike is an inelastic collision, where energy isn't conserved. An elastic collision energy is conserved.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

the way the whelen gets more velocity out of a 180 than a 300 mag is because you gain efficiencies when you use the same power plant (case) and go up in bore size. a simple for instance:

7mm rem mag = 3,000 ft lb

338 win mag = 4,000 ft lb

458 win mag = 5,000 ft lb

all the same parent case, yet as bore size opens up, so does the weight of the bullet increase and more energy available.

i suspect if one took a 338, and necked it up it would shoot a 250 gr bullet faster than in its original configuration. although the bc and sectional density would go down.

@dirthawker
Great simple explanation mate even I understand that. Top that with a powder that gives higher muzzle pressure that is still within SAMMI specs and you get higher velocity as well.
Bob

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I often wonder why people who are championing cartridges that in some way lack always get into these deflective talking point campaigns.

Energy transferred to the tissue, bone and nervous system affects kills. To transfer it, you have to have it to start with, conserve it across the flight path, and deliver it effectively upon arrival at target.

I see your point though, with those hideous BCs and SDs I wouldn't be quoting energy either as the turdy-phive holds onto it like a net holds water. A .458 Lott 350gr leaving the station at 2900fps allegedly has 6500 ft-lbs of ME, but it doesn't keep it long. Vroom vroom pfffft! It's a hideous waste of energy.

Magazine capacity!?! Most people here and most all of those making this argument can't cycle the gun fast enough to take advantage of it. You either have to hit the game with authority or have excellent speed of manipulation with your action in order to earn a second shot. Shots three, four and beyond are all resultant of damage caused.

@Forrest Halley
Sounds like a case of, if you can't bamboozle them with science baffle them with bullshit to me.
Just admit the Whelen is every bit as good as the 338 and in some cases a fraction better but both are good cartridges.
Bob

 

[jwp475]

@dirthawker
Great simple explanation mate even I understand that. Top that with a powder that gives higher muzzle pressure that is still within SAMMI specs and you get higher velocity as well.
Bob

Exactly. People over look the Whelen's best attribute when say hunting big bears the Whelen has a higher round count in the magazine in a handy package

 

[EMehrer]

I see it raised a bit about I wonder how many people own and use the 35 whelen.
How bout we find out as well as what is your favourite load and why you like the whelen.
Every one knows I'm a Whelen lunatic and get a lot of pleasure loading for it. I'm still working on loads for the 275 and 310 grainers but will get there
Bob

I have used my first year of production 35 Whelen on 8 trips to South Africa, Namibia, and Botswana. Taking 34 plains game animals. The largest being an Eland at 820 pounds. Also two trips to Alaska for Black bear, 616 lbs, and a double shovel caribou.
I load my own rounds. Two hundred , 250, and 275 grain bullets. I keep my speeds to about 2300 fps. Lots of bush in the Limpopo area of SA.

Excellent rifle for everything but the big five. For those I used either my 458 Winchester or my side by side 45-70. Both loaded with 405 or larger grain bullets. Still keep the fps to 2150.

I LOVE my 35 Whelen.

Best Regards,
Emery

 

[Forrest Halley]

You may want to learn a bit more physics. A bullet strike is an inelastic collision, where energy isn't conserved. An elastic collision energy is conserved.

I'm not debating the collision and passthroughs. I'm simply stating that the energy must be transferred as the bullet goes through the animal and simply passing through is not as effective. Hence why we use expanding bullets vs. solids for increased soft tissue damage. If energy was unimportant, we'd all be using a .22 FMJ and making the most of our accuracy and shot placement.

@Forrest Halley
Sounds like a case of, if you can't bamboozle them with science baffle them with bullshit to me.
Just admit the Whelen is every bit as good as the 338 and in some cases a fraction better but both are good cartridges.
Bob

Ahh yes, ladies and gentlemen we have here a mystery cartridge and wonder cartridge if you will...the turdy-phive wheel-ann! Just imagine any cartridge power level near it above or below, but especially above, and voila it's powerless to resist the chh-arrrr-mmms of the turdy-phive! We'll fill it full of modern powder and defy the odds as it magically becomes faster and stronger than all its siblings and competition. Belt or no belt! You can hold your pants up! So drop your belts and grab your elastic pants! Get a wheel-ann today and be part of the Smart Cart(ridge) Revolution! Think of it like a Tesla, except in a rifle, and all those surpassed cartridges as the mechanic's truck towing the generator.

Exactly. People over look the Whelen's best attribute when say hunting big bears the Whelen has a higher round count in the magazine in a handy package

In the wilds of Alaska, Yukon Territory and maybe even Kamchatka...hold down hunting camps besieged by giant bruins with improved magazine capacity and live to tell the tale! That extra round in the magazine will surely save the day as you've practiced magazine dumping and can even reload the rifle rapidly in a manner that would make Snoxall and Wallingford blush.

 

[Spooksar]

Well after reading all this I figured there is one thing wrong with all these theories. None of the people stating them have been shot by either cartridge. So I figured as I own both Calibers I should ask something that’s been shot by them their opinions. So I went to my trophy room and said to my Muskox are you pissed off at me for shooting you with my 35 Whelen instead of my 338 Win Mag, Loh and behold a voice in the air said what does it matter I’m dead, I then went to my Moose and said are you glad I shot you with my 338 Win Mag and not my 35 Whelen. Loh and behold a voice in the air said what does it matter I am dead. So tell me how can you think one cartridge will make a animal deader then dead, and one won’t.

 

[Bob Nelson 35Whelen]

I'm not debating the collision and passthroughs. I'm simply stating that the energy must be transferred as the bullet goes through the animal and simply passing through is not as effective. Hence why we use expanding bullets vs. solids for increased soft tissue damage. If energy was unimportant, we'd all be using a .22 FMJ and making the most of our accuracy and shot placement.

Ahh yes, ladies and gentlemen we have here a mystery cartridge and wonder cartridge if you will...the turdy-phive wheel-ann! Just imagine any cartridge power level near it above or below, but especially above, and voila it's powerless to resist the chh-arrrr-mmms of the turdy-phive! We'll fill it full of modern powder and defy the odds as it magically becomes faster and stronger than all its siblings and competition. Belt or no belt! You can hold your pants up! So drop your belts and grab your elastic pants! Get a wheel-ann today and be part of the Smart Cart(ridge) Revolution! Think of it like a Tesla, except in a rifle, and all those surpassed cartridges as the mechanic's truck towing the generator.

In the wilds of Alaska, Yukon Territory and maybe even Kamchatka...hold down hunting camps besieged by giant bruins with improved magazine capacity and live to tell the tale! That extra round in the magazine will surely save the day as you've practiced magazine dumping and can even reload the rifle rapidly in a manner that would make Snoxall and Wallingford blush.

@Forrest Halley
Being a new dad has changed you into a thinking man but me thinks you have been changing to many shitty nappies and the fumes have affected your logic.
The turdy-phive wheel Ann as you call it ain't no miracle cartridge it was just under loaded for years and now people are loading it properly it is pissing those off that have had their favourite 338 snd 300 without to much competition.
Now we can use it how it was always intended the naysayers come out of the woodwork and want to beat it back down. Oh the shame of an old Whelen even being considered a real round for hunting.
Guess what my son the Whelen is ALIVE and kicking some but, live with it and accept the fact that for all practical purposes the 338 and the Whelen are the same out to around 400 yards
Bob

 

[jwp475]

I'm not debating the collision and passthroughs. I'm simply stating that the energy must be transferred as the bullet goes through the animal and simply passing through is not as effective. Hence why we use expanding bullets vs. solids for increased soft tissue damage. If energy was unimportant, we'd all be using a .22 FMJ and making the most of our accuracy and shot placement.

Ahh yes, ladies and gentlemen we have here a mystery cartridge and wonder cartridge if you will...the turdy-phive wheel-ann! Just imagine any cartridge power level near it above or below, but especially above, and voila it's powerless to resist the chh-arrrr-mmms of the turdy-phive! We'll fill it full of modern powder and defy the odds as it magically becomes faster and stronger than all its siblings and competition. Belt or no belt! You can hold your pants up! So drop your belts and grab your elastic pants! Get a wheel-ann today and be part of the Smart Cart(ridge) Revolution! Think of it like a Tesla, except in a rifle, and all those surpassed cartridges as the mechanic's truck towing the generator.

In the wilds of Alaska, Yukon Territory and maybe even Kamchatka...hold down hunting camps besieged by giant bruins with improved magazine capacity and live to tell the tale! That extra round in the magazine will surely save the day as you've practiced magazine dumping and can even reload the rifle rapidly in a manner that would make Snoxall and Wallingford blush.

Sorry to break this to you but there is only a small amount of energy transfer and it is totally untraceable. Momentum does infact transfer in all collisions.

 

[hawkeyesatx]

Here is some simple science.

The larger a bullet and bore is, the less pressure it takes to move the bullet down the bore. So, a .358 rifle bullet will need less pressure to move it down the bore because of less friction imparted on the bullet, than say a .308 bullet, that requires higher pressures because of more friction caused by a smaller bullet. The same logic even goes for a 7mm and even a .270 cal bullet. For a long time there, the .270 was the high pressure cartridge king, until hunters started using “belted” magnums. Also, a belt on a case makes not a cartridge a magnum, no more than me buying a black belt from Walmart makes me a Karate master.
Now, granted, yes, the .338 Win Mag has more case capacity than the .35 Whelen.
From what I have been seeing, from the .338 Win Mag side, they’re saying that the .338 Win Mag is and has been the velocity champ of medium bore magnums. Yes, this may be true, but, BUT, the .338 Win Mag has been loaded more to its potential than the .35 Whelen ever had been. Except, until now.
This is my observation, that the .338 Win Mag pundits, believe that the .35 Whelen is antiquated, and needs to stay at the mundane pressures and velocities it was originally conceived. More than likely because they haven’t been educated properly about the .35 Whelen and it being able to run with higher pressures, thus increasing the velocities exponentially, thus being a lot more threat to their supposed superiority.
Yes, the .338 Magnum can be loaded with modern powders, but it doesn’t quite see the gain in velocities, and pressures spike faster than the .35 Whelen’s does.
So, my question at this point is this, why can’t the ‘06 case be just that efficient of a case coupled with the .358 rifle bullet that it could be the equal to, or even possibly edge the .338 Win Mag?
Plus, since the .338 Win Mag is already loaded more to its potential, there is also what is called the law of diminishing, thus velocities stay the same or actually lessen, until there is a detonation.
So, there we have it.
The old, one foot in the grave, .35 Whelen case is really THAT efficient, with the .358 rifle bullets.
And yet, I’m surprised that the 6.5 Man-bun pundits haven’t chimed in yet, to say the same thing that their bullets case is as efficient, if not more so, than the .35 Whelen.


Hawk

 

[CBH Australia]

Popcorn anyone?