High end bolt vs low end double

[Ontario Hunter]

There’s no denying a double rifle feels better in the hands. looks better. and carries better. With other trade-offs.

Well, I'll deny it. I've held and shot double rifles and SxS shotguns and they feel like crap in my hands. Looking down two barrels is no advantage at all. Points like crap for me. Fiddling with breaking a gun to load it is also very unattractive. I'll take my old A5 any day. Shove a shell up the tube and it loads itself! Or I can drop a round in the empty receiver of my 03A3 or 98 Mauser, close the bolt, and I'm ready to shoot. Fast and furious if needed.

 

[AZDAVE]

Each of the rifle platforms are designed for different primary purposes. (bolt, doubles, single, and lever guns) Each has a different manual of arms. Each person has to make the decision on what works for them and get to be a competent marksman/markswoman with their chosen platform.

When you talk 10-20K for a double of a very nice bolt/single you are investing a fair bit of cash. For those that want a double you really need to shoot a double and understand it's strength's and weaknesses. By all means find someone that has a double and will let you shoot one a few times before you jump into the double world as it is a different commitment than the other 3 platforms.

I fell in love with the history and mystic of a double and have committed the time and funds to being a decent double rifle shooter.

I also believe we have a responsibility to the animals we hunt to cleanly harvest them. So for most people a bolt gun or a fine single shot makes more sense. as you will be able to make shots with it where you would have to pass with a double.

I shoot all 4 platforms having smallest of a 22 hornet and largest of a 577 NE. and enjoy each and use them for the areas of their strengths and accept the weaknesses where I have the shoot vs no shoot based on platform decision.

My order of preference is
Double
Single
Bolt
Lever.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

This question crops up a lot here, especially where someone is contemplating an affordable or entry level double rifle and the advice of some is to steer well clear and rather get a high end bolt gun for the same money. There is something undeniably attractive about a double rifle, it has safari Africa or India connotations that draws hunters to want one.
It may be useful to put some sort of number to the money we are talking about. For me, I am thinking around US$10 000 as the divide.
The first question is whether all entry level or budget doubles are that bad? I have read conflicting reports with a couple of bad names cropping up, but I have yet to hear anything negative about the Chapuis Iphisi, for example, which was pegged right at this price point.
That leads into whether all high-end bolt guns are good? I have seen many mishaps in this category too.
Of course we would all want the best, but that is subjective and one person's best may not be the next's. For example, for me functionality and reliability are paramount, then come fit and form behind that and last of all embelishment.

I suppose it all boils down to getting to the bottom of what is optimal, what is acceptable and what is reject. Ticking the boxes that work for you.

High end bolt action.

I love double rifles, but the harsh truth is that they’re far more picky in terms of ammunition selection than a magazine rifle is.

A low end double is less desirable than a low end magazine rifle in my opinion. The early Sabatti rifles and many of the low end pieces made in Belgium & Spain during the early to mid 20th century, were pieces of garbage which I would not trust for hunting a bush pig. Let alone a lion or Cape buffalo or hippopotamus or elephant. They shot large groups, the barrel solder often broke within 50 firings & the extractors often failed you when you needed them to work the most.

When purchasing a double rifle… the term “You get what you pay for” is most appropriate.

 

[Pondoro]

All said..a good double rifle can save your life when hunting DG in dense bush.. In Scandinavia a lightly used Merkel, Krieghoff can be had for USD 6000 - 7000.. I suppose the same goes for the rest of Europe.. A used Heym is USD10.000 - 12.000

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Some of you have mentioned single rifles too, and the Ruger No1 of course comes to mind and at a very reasonable price. At the higher end of the fineely crafted single shots there is the Dakota model 10 and at the extreme end the Rigby falling block. This latter offering is extremely beautiful, but is for the lucky few at a statring price of about £54 000.
Acknowledgements to Rigby:

 

[analog_peninsula]

I have a 500/416 K-gun and a Mauser M03 Lott. I don’t know if the M03 is truly “high end”, but I think it’s an amazing rifle. For me, it comes down to the hunting environment. The M03 is a precision instrument and is dead nuts accurate, but the K-gun is a pleasure to carry and shoot at targets under 60 yards. It’s all about horses for courses.

 

[Throwback]

I dont view it as an either or choice. Most on AH probably dont either. The bolt action rifle and the double both have their place. I agree with what apparently many think, and that is the bolt action is "better" at the end of the day, and certainly cheaper. Doubles are definitely known for the fastest follow up shot possible. Besides that I see no definite advantage.

I have a H&H 500/465 (I inherited) that would cost me an obscene price today, out of my budget, and of course I love it but I agree that it has its shortcomings compared to a bolt action one knows well. The sights are the main drawback. Past 50 yards I would not trust my life on it for a DG hunt (although in more capable hands someone probably could). Ammo is also very expensive, like 10 dollars a round expensive.

To me, it is a nostalgia thing and I am a sucker for that all day long. If you can get your hands on one, why not? Mine is over 100 years old now and my grandfather was the second owner of it (documented in H&H's log in their store in London) and used it on a 30 day safari in Tanzania with Ker, Downey in 1968. He took an elephant and a buffalo with it. So, I plan to take it to Tanzania in the next ten years myself (of course!). I hope my son does the same in due course.

Cheers

 

[Surgeon1]

I love to hunt Buffalo with a Double; I've spent a fair amount of time perfecting a technique to shoot
quick, accurately, and reload for them. I have met very few mid to high end guns that I didn't care fore.
Taking a bolt and a DR to Africa covers the bases for me. It doesn't take much effort or time for the trackers to offload on a track or something we spot from the truck to know which rifle to hand me and which they will carry often without saying a word. Initially I was a bit unsure or confident with a DR
but expending time and ammo at home the skill set developed. Drawing on my years of shooting
in IPSC and USPSA I worked on two quick accurate shots with progressively shorter split times between shots. Stalking in close and putting 2 quick stopping hits is a thrill.

 

[Bonk]

This discussion has helped me make a decision. Every year at this time I have to decide which of my rifles will get the nod for whitetail duty. It varies wildly in caliber but except for muzzleloader season it’s always one of my various bolt action rifles. I think this year I’ll use my 9.3x62 O/U double rifle to mix it up a little bit. That being said I need to get busy ordering a scope mount or I’ll be hunting open sights this year. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

As far as this discussion goes I’ll take a $10K magazine rifle over a $10K double rifle every time. The intended use of a DR is too narrow for most of us. They’re mostly one trick ponies despite how glorious they’re built. I’d love to have a Heym just for the pleasure of owning one but that’s probably not gonna happen in this lifetime.

 

[Bonk]

Quick update to my above post. I ordered a scope mount. Should be here in a week or two (coming from Germany).

 

[mark-hunter]

but I have yet to hear anything negative about the Chapuis Iphisi,

What my PH told me during my last hunt is that his last client was with Chapuis, and a rifle doubled the shot.
In his hunting carrier as a PH he saw only 4 times a rifle to double a shot. All 4 times it was Chapuis.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

I love to hunt Buffalo with a Double; I've spent a fair amount of time perfecting a technique to shoot
quick, accurately, and reload for them. I have met very few mid to high end guns that I didn't care fore.
Taking a bolt and a DR to Africa covers the bases for me. It doesn't take much effort or time for the trackers to offload on a track or something we spot from the truck to know which rifle to hand me and which they will carry often without saying a word. Initially I was a bit unsure or confident with a DR
but expending time and ammo at home the skill set developed. Drawing on my years of shooting
in IPSC and USPSA I worked on two quick accurate shots with progressively shorter split times between shots. Stalking in close and putting 2 quick stopping hits is a thrill.

Biffalo with a double, that sums it up. Hunkering down, looking down that rib between the two barrels, at one with the moment. Boom! And Boom again!

 

[Scott CWO]

It all depends on your individual circumstances. While I have 20/20 vision from 16” to infinity, my eyes now have trouble seeing both the rear and front sights clearly at the same time. I also need reading glasses for up close reading. I’ve considered corrective surgery but have not wanted to risk my farsighted clarity. If anyone has experience with this situation and good outcomes, I’m all ears.

The above issue prevents me from using a double rifle or the iron sights on a bolt rifle. My bolt rifle solution is a QD scope mount and a QD mount for my halographic red dot sight when I need to remove the scope to follow up wounded DG. While I could use a holographic sight on a DR, it would seem sacrilegious to me, so I decided not to buy a DR but would love to have one.

If my up close vision wasn’t an issue, I would use a DR for elephant hunting and for following up after wounded buffalo and cats but I think I would still prefer a scoped bolt rifle as a client for everything except elephant. It’s hard to beat the AHR CZ550 458 Lott that I have due to its six round capacity and I can cycle it very fast. I also now have a Dakota Traveler in 375 H&H and 458 Lott that I use in Africa. It feeds very smoothly and fast as well.

 

[NoStepOnSnek]

I find it hard to justify a purchasing a $10k bolt gun when a used Model 70 does the same job at the same level. Why would I spend $50k for a Rigby single when the Ruger No.1 exists? If I had $10k to throw at one gun, I’d throw it at a double since I can’t get that for the same quality at significantly less cost

 

[Aussie_Hunter]

For me this is an easy question to answer, a well built bolt gun beats a cheap double every day of the week. Even a well made double that is reliable and accurate takes alot of practice to get used to and even then in most cases is not as versatile or as easy to shoot as a good quality scoped bolt gun. I just see no value in a cheap double as there are just too many potential issues that could come along with it.

And then looking past cheap doubles to good quality doubles, I hope to have my new double soon (Verney Carron) and start to practice with it in the hopes I will take it on a buffalo hunt I just booked for 2026 but I am still not convinced it will be coming with me. I intend to test the hell out of it well in advance but even if the rifle proves it's very accurate and very reliable I am not sure I am willing to give up potential shot opportunities that could be taken with a scoped bolt gun just because I want to use my double.

 

[analog_peninsula]

(snipped) I intend to test the hell out of it well in advance but even if the rifle proves it's very accurate and very reliable I am not sure I am willing to give up potential shot opportunities that could be taken with a scoped bolt gun just because I want to use my double.

I agree completely about potentially losing opportunities, but there's still nothing in hunting as much fun as shooting large animals at close ranges. At that, the double is still king, and I'm willing to pass on a "better" trophy in order to have "more fun".

 

[Pablo]

I've easily owned over 100 firearms, visited hundreds of gun stores in the U.S., and many gun stores overseas, and until I went to the SCI show in Nashville I'd never actually seen a Double Rifle up close.

The bottom line is that they are extremely rare, even among well heeled hunters. It takes a team of very talented Craftsman to build and maintain a Double, much like a high end supercar.

A Century ago the Double made perfect sense, especially for DG. If your wallet allows it, you are willing to develop the skills needed to shoot it, and you can hunt Africa frequently, I say buy one. They are wonderful pieces of times past, and a tradition that should be kept alive.

Modern labor cost take even the least expensive Double out of the hands of blue collar hunters. To be honest, spending anything above 2 weeks pay on a firearm by the average married man would put you in the dog house.

For most, the bottom price of 10k is to much. Half that and the average guy can have a reliable factory bolt gun.

You said a century ago, and I realized that was 1925 and not the 1800s. Now I need to go lie down.

 

[festuscat]

Eternal discussion, but some are for so fixated on the double rifles that they are hard to convince that they are using absolutely obsolete rifles and that they have to adapt their hunting to their rifles if they want to are successful in all cases. If I had hunted with only a double rifle, I would not have shot the most part of my buffalo due to the different presented shooting situations. The advantage in case of an attack is also a myth. You only have two shots and reloading quickly a double rifle is not easy, especially the heavy big bores.

It’s not a myth…

 

[Russ16]

One of the reasons I’m so interested in a DR is that I’ve shot so many thousands of rounds through a SxS shotgun. A double just jumps to my shoulder. In a dangerous situation I’m confident that muscle memory would be helpful.

Shotgun shooting is a high volume game. I doubt many people have put as many rounds through a bolt rifle as I have a SxS shotgun. And all of those were swing mount shoot not from a bench.

Higher end bolt guns are beautiful but the difference between them and quality lower priced bolt guns are in the last few thousandth of an inch of fitting and finishing. They are works of art but not necessarily more efficacious than lower priced quality guns.

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Eternal discussion, but some are for so fixated on the double rifles that they are hard to convince that they are using absolutely obsolete rifles and that they have to adapt their hunting to their rifles if they want to are successful in all cases. If I had hunted with only a double rifle, I would not have shot the most part of my buffalo due to the different presented shooting situations. The advantage in case of an attack is also a myth. You only have two shots and reloading quickly a double rifle is not easy, especially the heavy big bores.

@grand veneur

There's not a lot that you & I disagree on. But I will tell you about one type of hunting where a double rifle is virtually mandatory- leopard over hounds.

I actually had to shoot an inbound leopard (hunted over hounds) with my .375 Holland & Holland Magnum Remington Model 700. I quickly came to the realization that if I had been unable to stop him with the first shot, then he would have managed to reach me before I cycled the bolt & got off the second shot. A straight pull bolt action design (such as a Blaser R-8) would improve my odds slightly more, but still...

Otherwise however, I totally agree with you. Everything else is completely fair game for an accurate magazine rifle. Sometimes outright advantageous even.