Elephant caliber

[zephyr]

Tanks said:


Well, my point is to have enough gun so one does not have to solely depend on the PH to have a shot at a charging animal. Some PHs I know will not let a client with a .375 take a frontal brain shot at big Botswana elephants.

As Tank says ... Be part of the Solution not part of the Problem

 

[JFdekoker]

I'm starting to put my mind towards wanting to complete my Big 5. With that in mind, I'm trying to decide on a caliber for an elephant. I currently have a Winchester M70 in .375 H&H for everything else. I originally was going to go with a .458 Win Mag but from what I've been reading/researching, there's mixed reviews on the Win Mag for elephant. So then I've been looking at the .458 Lott. I don't have the $15-75k+ for a double rifle (my plan is a non-trophy elephant and a green rhino hunt) and I want something that I can still buy commercial ammo for. Therefore, my two choices of the Win Mag and the Lott.

For those of you with actual elephant experience, is the Win Mag enough juice or do I need the Lott? Especially if SHTF and a charge occurs.

2 weeks ago a went with a friend to hunt an elephant in North eastern Botswana. he did not bring a rifle. we used a .375 H&H . The ammunition was 300gr Solid in Hornady. Our plan was the ever reliable side brain shot, HOWEVER, the situation that we were in had us having to take the frontal brain shot. We spoke about it for 2 days before the actual shot took place. The frontal brain shot was effective and the elephant went down immediately. A wonderful hunt.

 

[Flipper Dude]

That’s a beautiful piece of ivory right there.

 

[375Fox]

Tanks said:


Well, my point is to have enough gun so one does not have to solely depend on the PH to have a shot at a charging animal. Some PHs I know will not let a client with a .375 take a frontal brain shot at big Botswana elephants.

As Tank says ... Be part of the Solution not part of the Problem

The number of hunters thinking they need a double or large rifle for elephant is part of the problem too. If someone isn’t going to take the time to really get proficient with their rifle. A 375 is better solution. Many well accomplished elephant PHs are willing to recommend a 375 also and rent them out for elephant hunts. Interesting that part gets left out. A brain shot with a 458 or a 375 is still a dead elephant. Body shot the larger caliber has a significant advantage.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Just saying………​

(Excerpted)

I heard the following story from a Professional Hunter with years of experience in Zimbabwe and South Africa:​

“When a client shows up in camp with a .375 Holland & Holland, you immediately know that you have a practical and able chap as a customer, a wise and knowledgeable hunter who will listen to reason. When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions. When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter’s experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter. When a client shows up with a double rifle, you know you have an elitist for a customer, much like the guy coming down the charter boat dock at the marina carrying a fly rod, and you approach him with caution. When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting. And when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately.”

 

[Adam Stevens]

Appreciate reading all the opinions on the matter! Booking my next hunt and it'll be for a non trophy, maybe trophy bull. I would use my .375hh or .450no2 but can't bring guns to Zim, so will be using camp rifle. .375 or .416 will obviously be just fine.

I've always been a firm believer if you're only planning on 1 ele a scoped .375 is plenty and adequate for the job. I do like the idea of it should start with a .4 but that's personal thought only. I did ask and can rent a .500ne double. Which I may use.

The safari romantic in me dreams and has always dreamt of taking an elephant with a double. I would practice with my .450no2 leading up to the hunt. I know many who if planning on taking multiple elephant recommend a .500. But that's just anecdotal stories over the years.

 

[Adam Stevens]

Just saying………​

(Excerpted)

I heard the following story from a Professional Hunter with years of experience in Zimbabwe and South Africa:​

“When a client shows up in camp with a .375 Holland & Holland, you immediately know that you have a practical and able chap as a customer, a wise and knowledgeable hunter who will listen to reason. When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions. When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or a Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter’s experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter. When a client shows up with a double rifle, you know you have an elitist for a customer, much like the guy coming down the charter boat dock at the marina carrying a fly rod, and you approach him with caution. When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting. And when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately.”

That blogpost made me fall in love with the .404 I'd say almost 20 years ago now! One of the first "bookmarks" I made on the early Internet!

 

[375Fox]

And when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of building and loading a gun and cartridge long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately.”

Ontario Hunter? Are you sure on this last part?

 

[Flipper Dude]

Ontario Hunter? Are you sure on this last part?

Damn. Well, he is passionate.

 

[Flipper Dude]

I shoot a 404 Jeffery for Buffalo and plains game combo, but if elephant are on the menu I carry the 458 Lott, with the Jeffery as a light rifle. I know the Jeffery would work fine on an elephant, but why own a 458 Lott if you ain’t gonna hunt elephant with it?

Sorta my backwards logic to keep it in the rotation.

 

[Austin AH]

I would think that an animal 10 feet tall and weighing 5 tons would notice a ~.075" difference in bullet diameter a lot less than the shooter of that bullet.
If we supposed that a .270 (about 3,500J) is about minimum that most people would choose for elk, and then scaled that elk up to the size of an elephant, the "minimum" for that elk would be an Anzio 20mm round with 30,000J (imagine shooting that out of a 10 lb rifle!). A .375 h&h is about 4,500J. .458 Lott is about 5,500J.

From the elephant's perspective I don't think there would be a great deal of difference between any calibers wimpy enough for a human being to fire out of a rifle light enough to walk around with.

 

[Flipper Dude]

Man, that’s some Austin thinking right there!

I’m trying to wrap my pea brain around it, but it just keeps going in circles!

 

[Spey]

The safari romantic in me dreams and has always dreamt of taking an elephant with a double.

Same here and I did with my double. I had planned to sell it afterwards to help fund another hunt but now it has sentimental value and I don't think can part with it.

 

[AZDAVE]

I have exactly putting holes in two elephants. Last fall my wife was shooting her 375 with 350gr solids, I was shooting my 500/416. With 400 gr solids. We both shot at the same time on a moving elephant, so we did a body shot in the heart. Both bullets went in on the left side-through the heart- out the right side. Complete penetration, my second shot was in the neck shoulder. Junction. Hers was a coup de grace in the head. Animal we straight down..

The other I was backing my buddy up, he was shooting a 416 rem, and I was shooting a 500 Jeff. On review of the video he shot just above the brain on a frontal shot, elephant was starting to spin to leave my shot went just under the brain. The difference in impact was dramatic. His 400 gr solid went through the skull and kept going. The elephant reacted le he was hardly hit. The 570 gr solid out of the 500 the animal just froze in his tracks and fell to its side. My buddy and the ph both put one through the skull and a bad situation was averted.

First and foremost the first shot placement is paramount!!!!! Whether it is a 9.3-375 or 500-577.

For truly having a stopper my bottom number starts with a 500 and goes up. But you get into a diminishing returns in recoil department. Takes a lot developing recoil tolerance for them.

As a client the 9.3-416 class is very good as the ability to shoot accurately is much easier than the 458 and bigger.

So study the proper placement on frontal, side, and body shots. Shoot a few hundred rounds (3-500) out of you rifle till it just plain flat works. Also shoot several thousand 22lr with the same preparation. GET in shape so you can shot well after 10 miles in the hot sun. Then go hunt your elephant.

My .02 worth

 

[Austin AH]

Man, that’s some Austin thinking right there!

I’m trying to wrap my pea brain around it, but it just keeps going in circles!

It's not all that different of a concept from your excerpt about .375 h&h shooters being practical customers and .458 win mag shooters likely being under the influence of gun rags.

Elephants are so much bigger than us that hunting them is like if you or I were being hunted by a large cottontail rabbit. What would a caliber discussion look like for rabbits about to hunt a human? Probably much like this, but with calibers that you or I would consider too small to hunt anything larger than, well, rabbits.