Drilling back up question

[Georg]

Hi,
My first post on this fantastic and newly found forum.
Have a question for you about drilling as a back up for follow up on leopards and possible smaller potential hazardeous like bushbok. What is the experise opinion on a drilling in the 12/12 - 9,3x74r configuration with a aimpoint micro? Other preference for follow ups on these types?

 

[Longwalker]

I've recently purchased a 12-12/9.3x74R drilling and I am interested in the responses that you will receive. Seems like a reasonable idea to me.

 

[Longwalker]

No replies?

 

[IvW]

I have used a "poormans double" 12/12 sxs Brno sidelock with barrels shortened to 24" and a ghost ring rear sight fitted very succesfully using only Brenneke original slugs.

I have also used a 12ga/9.3x74R for the same purpose, this one has 28" barrels and although it has a small flip up rear sight I just shoot over the barrels and use the front sight.

A drilling you will have 3 barrels but still only 2 shots. You will have to re cock and select the 3rd barrel before you can fire it.
Confusion under pressure could lead to issues.
Select the barrels you want to use before the time and use those two.

Also practice firing with only one hand....yes wounded leopard attacks are frighteningly fast and instinct will have you raising your non shooting arm to protect yourself....so in essense practice "feeding" it your non shooting arm and shooting it with one hand your shooting hand.

Drillings for traditional use will have 24 to 28 inch barrels, for general hunting use the longer barrels are better for this type of work the shirter barrels are obviously better

Drillings and combination guns are facinating weapons.....

 

[Had213]

The 12/12 9.3x74R drilling like Merkel, Sauer, or similar European combos is a classic and highly regarded setup for leopard follow ups in Africa tons of PHs and hunters run similar configs 12/12/9.3x74R exactly for wounded cat work or bushbuck medium game backup.

9.3x74R 286gr softnose or solid at 2400 fps has plenty of punch for leopard deep penetration, good expansion on vitals, handles bushbuck easily, and it's legal minimum in most areas for DG backup.

Twin 12 gauge barrels Brenneke slugs preferred give instant follow up shots without cycling huge edge on a charging leaping cat in thick stuff faster than bolt or double rifle reload.

Versatile slugs for close urgent, birdshot for plains game or birds if needed.

Balanced, quick handling gun short barrels keep it maneuverable in bush.

Aimpoint Micro H-1/H-2 on it? Super fast target acquisition paste the 2 MOA dot and go, parallax free, both eyes open for snap shots, bombproof military grade, low weight, long battery 50k hours. Many hunters mount am on drillings doubles for dangerous game big win in low light dense cover or when adrenaline hits. Some purists hate optics on classics aesthetic, weight on barrel rib, and mounting needs a solid base drill tap rib or use clamp on. Dot can bloom in bright sun if not adjusted, but modern Micros handle it well.

Pure double rifle .375 H&H or .416 Rigby for pure stopping power but slower second shot).

Bolt action .375/.416 with quick-detach scope more accurate at distance but slower cycle.

Pump slug gun Win M12 12ga as backup fast follow ups, cheap.

But for combo versatility speed, your 12/12-9.3x74R drilling with a red dot is hard to beat many call it the poor man's double for cats.

 

[grand veneur]

A controversial topic that has been discussed before on various Forums.

I have no experience hunting big cats, let alone tracking them when they are wounded, but I am familiar with the drillings, and therefore I would be somewhat cautious about using such a weapon for dangerous actions. Several adjustments have to be made to the rifle to ensure that the correct barrel is used. Whether all of this will under pressure proceed without problems in all cases, is uncertain. Mistakes happen even under optimal conditions by shooting from a Hochsitz.

For this reason, I would like to hear the opinions of the many PH who are experienced in tracking wounded leopards.

 

[Nhoro]

Personally, I think that your first thought should be towards the gun that you are most familiar with. When you see how often people are left yanking on the trigger because someone forgot the safety or the safety is in a different place eg shifting from a CZ side safety to a shotgun tang safety. Does your drilling meet that criteria.

Secondly, I would assume the drilling serves as a shotgun with buckshot and the 9,3 for a little distance. I would not use buckshot at all. The pellets simply do not have the penetration to reach the brain or reliably reach the heart.A shotgun slug would be good as IvW suggests, I know a few PHs that use a semi auto slug gun. Personally I would use my 458 Lott because I am familiar with it but second choice would be a semi auto slug gun if I had one and practise with it.

 

[grand veneur]

I my opinion, for people who prefer shotguns for such actions, a double shotgun or a pump gun 12 gauge, without chokes and loaded with slugs, is a better medecine then a drilling.

 

[grand veneur]

Combination guns offer advantages for some hunts, but not when it comes to hunting dangerous game species, and certainly not to follow them when wounded.

There were so-called Tropen-drillinge that had a big bore barrel, but I doubt that such weapons were built based on a great practical experience. More likely, they were in the past orders from inexperienced clients.

 

[Betterinthebush]

@Hunter-Habib needs to chime in here with his storied and extensive experience on this subject. Especially since it’s concerning cats.

I talked with him and trusted his advice for an upcoming hunt of mine.

 

[grand veneur]

I don't believe that Drillings was very often used for hunting dangerous game in Africa or India. In my regions of Europe, this weapon is still used quite frequently, but no longer for the purpose for which it was initially designed. My father used a Drilling until the early 1960s for hunting types in area of small fields mixed with small forest and where mainly small game was hunted and the bullet only used if something bigger appeared. A Drilling was above all a double shotgun. All this have been discontinued after the land consolidation in our countries. Such hunting methods are perhaps comparable to the bird hunting in some countries of Africa, but how useful a Drilling might be there, when encountering DG and especially big cats, would need to be discussed.

 

[spike.t]

The 12/12 9.3x74R drilling like Merkel, Sauer, or similar European combos is a classic and highly regarded setup for leopard follow ups in Africa tons of PHs and hunters run similar configs 12/12/9.3x74R exactly for wounded cat work or bushbuck medium game backup.

9.3x74R 286gr softnose or solid at 2400 fps has plenty of punch for leopard deep penetration, good expansion on vitals, handles bushbuck easily, and it's legal minimum in most areas for DG backup.

Twin 12 gauge barrels Brenneke slugs preferred give instant follow up shots without cycling huge edge on a charging leaping cat in thick stuff faster than bolt or double rifle reload.

Versatile slugs for close urgent, birdshot for plains game or birds if needed.

Balanced, quick handling gun short barrels keep it maneuverable in bush.

Aimpoint Micro H-1/H-2 on it? Super fast target acquisition paste the 2 MOA dot and go, parallax free, both eyes open for snap shots, bombproof military grade, low weight, long battery 50k hours. Many hunters mount am on drillings doubles for dangerous game big win in low light dense cover or when adrenaline hits. Some purists hate optics on classics aesthetic, weight on barrel rib, and mounting needs a solid base drill tap rib or use clamp on. Dot can bloom in bright sun if not adjusted, but modern Micros handle it well.

Pure double rifle .375 H&H or .416 Rigby for pure stopping power but slower second shot).

Bolt action .375/.416 with quick-detach scope more accurate at distance but slower cycle.

Pump slug gun Win M12 12ga as backup fast follow ups, cheap.

But for combo versatility speed, your 12/12-9.3x74R drilling with a red dot is hard to beat many call it the poor man's double for cats.

"Tons of phs and hunters run drillings for following up on leopards...and it's a classic and highly regarded set up."...mmm well I have never heard of anyone i know apart from @IvW using one on wounded leopard follow up....and no one in their right mind is going to use solids to actually take their first shot at a leopard or a lion ...let alone using them on a follow up.....out of interest where do you get your info from?...

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

"Tons of phs and hunters run drillings for following up on leopards...and it's a classic and highly regarded set up."...mmm well I have never heard of anyone i know apart from @IvW using one on wounded leopard follow up....and no one in their right mind is going to use solids to actually take their first shot at a leopard or a lion ...let alone using them on a follow up.....out of interest where do you get your info from?...

I know nothing on follow up etiquette for wounded leopard. What are the top two or three weapons used and cartidge selection for follow up shots?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Hi,
My first post on this fantastic and newly found forum.
Have a question for you about drilling as a back up for follow up on leopards and possible smaller potential hazardeous like bushbok. What is the experise opinion on a drilling in the 12/12 - 9,3x74r configuration with a aimpoint micro? Other preference for follow ups on these types?

Hi, @Georg
Welcome to the forums.
In preference to a drilling for follow up work on wounded great cats, I would much rather prefer a normal double barrel combination gun (either in side by side or over & under configuration depending upon your individual tastes).

The rifle barrel should be chambered in 9.3x74mm R (loaded with a good quality soft point such as the 286Gr Norma Oryx). The shotgun barrel should be a 12 gauge 3” Magnum loaded with a Federal Premium 10 Pellet Copper Plated 000 Buck shell. The rifle barrel should be used for relatively longer ranged shots. The shotgun barrel should be employed when the charging leopard is mere feet away from you. This is also an excellent weapon for hunting leopards or bushpigs over hounds. Operates just like a traditional double trigger double rifle or shotgun. Very easy to operate instinctively and quickly.

The reason why I do not prefer a drilling for following up wounded dangerous game (particularly the great cats), is because your muscle memory can permit you no margin for error when you’re trying to make the third shot (and that too, in an adrenaline fueled hurry). Drillings normally have two triggers, which with three barrels means they have a variety of “fire control systems.” It’s the human ability to properly utilize these fire control systems under pressure (in a split second) which I don’t have much faith in.

 

[Longwalker]

I have no experience and next to no opinion on this topic, but will add the observation that my Merkel 95S drilling cocks all three firing mechanisms while loading (it is quite stiff to open). It has a normal non-automatic tang safety ( so much better than an automatic safety or the side mounted “Greener” safety on my Krieghoff Trumpf drilling) so when used as a normal double barrel shotgun the safety is quick and instinctive. Rifle barrel selection is a simple matter of pushing the second tang mounted button forward. If the rifle barrel has been fired, the right shotgun barrel can be fired by pushing that selector rearward, or the opposite, if firing shotgun first. I don’t find the mechanism confusing or slow. It handles like a good shotgun should, with a powerful rifle along as a bonus for three quick shots.

 

[spike.t]

I know nothing on follow up etiquette for wounded leopard. What are the top two or three weapons used and cartidge selection for follow up shots?

From ones I know they use their regular rifle they use for back up obviously with softs loaded...or a shotgun....type of would be whatever they have...the choice of rifle or shotgun would be based on their personal experiences....but as been said buckshot even of the biggest pellet type has a hard time penetrating the skull or chest muscles of a leopard.....

 

[spike.t]

I know nothing on follow up etiquette for wounded leopard. What are the top two or three weapons used and cartidge selection for follow up shots?

From ones I know they use their regular rifle they use for back up obviouslywith softs ...or a shotgun....type of would be whatever they have....but as been said buckshot even of the biggest pellet type has a hard time penetrating the skull or chest muscles of a leopard.....

I have no experience and next to no opinion on this topic, but will add the observation that my Merkel 95S drilling cocks all three firing mechanisms while loading (it is quite stiff to open). It has a normal non-automatic tang safety ( so much better than an automatic safety or the side mounted “Greener” safety on my Krieghoff Trumpf drilling) so when used as a normal double barrel shotgun the safety is quick and instinctive. Rifle barrel selection is a simple matter of pushing the second tang mounted button forward. If the rifle barrel has been fired, the right shotgun barrel can be fired by pushing that selector rearward, or the opposite, if firing shotgun first. I don’t find the mechanism confusing or slow. It handles like a good shotgun should, with a powerful rifle along as a bonus for three quick shots.

I think you would have been chewed after your first shot if it didn't stop it..no time to be trying to push or pull levers or buttons after the first shot.....

---

 

[analog_peninsula]

I see semi-auto shotguns mentioned in this thread, but I was under the impression they were verboten in most African countries. Am I mistaken?

 

[Red Leg]

I have owned and shot drillings for fifty years. Among the ones I currently own is a double rifle drilling in 9.3x74R x 9.3X74R x 16 bore. Using it as a double rifle it would be as effective as any other 9.3 double in the same role which would be quite effective. I have personally never handled a drilling chambered for modern 12 bore 3" magnum shells. Even if I could find one, I am not sure a load of buck shot would be my first choice out of any firearm. As others have noted you will be lucky to get off two shots.

With the typical drilling your options are front trigger 9.3 rear trigger 9.3 or first trigger buckshot then second trigger 9.3 (at least that is the arrangement on my double rifle drilling). The latter would seem to be the opposite of the intended sequence. Of course, you could try rear trigger then from trigger with the shotgun first, but that is yet another thing to go wrong in a very rapid high intensity engagement.

Like @spike.t I have never heard of, much less seen, a PH or anyone else in Africa employ a drilling for follow-up on anything.

But yes, if you feel a separate firearm for follow-up is desirable and want to use a 9.3 double with which you have foolproof familiarity, then by all means do so. It would be superior to most bolt actions in that role. I personally just wouldn't use that shotgun barrel on anything more lethal than a serval or sand grouse.

 

[spike.t]

I see semi-auto shotguns mentioned in this thread, but I was under the impression they were verboten in most African countries. Am I mistaken?

They good here have a couple...and as far as I know good in zim..SA...and presume Namibia and Botswana......possibly visitors might be restricted but haven't a clue on that...