Double Rifle accuracy expectations?

[Dan458]

I am looking at buying a second hand Sabatti 500NE as a first double. This is the factory regulation target which seems pretty unimpressive to me.

Is this about normal for a double in this class and would you expect to be able to improve with handloading?

 

[JD Noblin]

I own and have hunted with a Heym 500 Nitro Express for several years now and I have another one on order. Regardless, I am still a novice regarding doubles. In my limited experience and opinion (neither of which is worth much) I would not accept that as proper regulation of a double at 50 meters regardless of the manufacturer.

I have hand-loaded for over 40 years and I do my own "regulating" on my Heym 500NE by adjusting either the amount and/or type of powder used. Below are some pics of targets for both softs and solids from Swift (first photo) and Barnes (second & third photos) I used a 3.25MOA red dot and all targets were shot at 50 yards off a bench....I am sure these could be improved upon from both a load-development and shooter perspectives....I am still learning all about the "black magic" applicable to double-rifles.

 

[Tanks]

From sticks 50 meters. Heym 88B .500 NE

Opens a bit off-hand at 50 meters. But, I'll take it.

 

[Rare Breed]

I am looking at buying a second hand Sabatti 500NE as a first double. This is the factory regulation target which seems pretty unimpressive to me.

Is this about normal for a double in this class and would you expect to be able to improve with handloading?


View attachment 612541

I have now owned 7 DRs. Good regulation is 2 inches at 50 yards. Great regulation is 1 inch at 50 yards. Exceptional regulation is under 1 inch at 50 yards. My CA 470 Rigby consistently off sticks prints at 0.6 inches at 50 yards. To answer your question directly no I am not impressed with the target provided you

 

[AimSmall]

Factory regulation vs 50 yards off sticks..

 

[GWB]

I own and have hunted with a Heym 500 Nitro Express for several years now and I have another one on order. Regardless, I am still a novice regarding doubles. In my limited experience and opinion (neither of which is worth much) I would not accept that as proper regulation of a double at 50 meters regardless of the manufacturer.

I have hand-loaded for over 40 years and I do my own "regulating" on my Heym 500NE by adjusting either the amount and/or type of powder used. Below are some pics of targets for both softs and solids from Swift (first photo) and Barnes (second & third photos) I used a 3.25MOA red dot and all targets were shot at 50 yards off a bench....I am sure these could be improved upon from both a load-development and shooter perspectives....I am still learning all about the "black magic" applicable to double-rifles.View attachment 612548View attachment 612549View attachment 612550

JD
Thats really impressive!!

 

[deewayne2003]

My .470 is a Sabatti, regulated by Ken Owen.

50yds standing with shooting sticks and iron sights.

50yds standing with sticks and RMR sight.

I notice the test target for the .500 states Norma Ammo, I would try some Hornady ammo and see what kind of group you get.

If you can fire before you buy, I would shoot 3 pairs and mark the holes R1,R2,L1,L2,ect,ect this will tell you how accurate each barrel is and if regulation is needed.

I’ve got Ken Owens contact info, it would be worth it to send it to him for a once over before buying.

 

[Kevin Peacocke]

Yes you will be able to improve on that, minute of apple, but not much better. You are essentially asking two different rifles to behave as one. Best option is to:
1. Experiment with bullets and loads to get both barrels to shoot close together.
2. Then use a red dot to bring that poi to the required impact point.

 

[Tokoloshe Safaris]

Ken is the greatest especially on Sabattis.

One other note supposedly the R&L group is supposed to be within X number of seconds of each other. Personally I never paid much attention to that part of regulating.

Lon

 

[GWB]

I assume a 1-inch horizontal spread better that a 1-inch vertical spread.
All though both would be acceptable.

 

[Sideshow]

From sticks 50 meters. Heym 88B .500 NE

View attachment 612553


Opens a bit off-hand at 50 meters. But, I'll take it.

View attachment 612554

@Tanks are you right handed? The reason I ask is most of my targets look like that. Shot places out to the left of the target, it’s like the pressure on the trigger forces the shot that ŵay.

 

[Daniel Cary]

Maybe the Factory was having a bad day .. idk.

 

[zephyr]

When you folks are splitting hairs with the accuracy of a double rifle one factor that is being missed is the Point of Impact will be different with every shooter .. their morphology and how they hold the gun will determine how the gun will recoil which in turn will determine the Point of Impact

 

[Daniel Cary]

When you folks are splitting hairs with the accuracy of a double rifle one factor that is being missed is the Point of Impact will be different with every shooter .. their morphology and how they hold the gun will determine how the gun will recoil which in turn will determine the Point of Impact

The Krieghoff Target was great .. with one in far right field,

He'd may have had enough ;

 

[Mountaineer]

I’m a hand loader and like to play with different powders, bullets, and seating depths. This is my final light load. 4 shots @ 50 yards shot bottom/top/bottom/top off bench with Leupold VX3 1.5-5.

 

[Mark A Ouellette]

When you folks are splitting hairs with the accuracy of a double rifle one factor that is being missed is the Point of Impact will be different with every shooter .. their morphology and how they hold the gun will determine how the gun will recoil which in turn will determine the Point of Impact

You sir are grammatically correct!
Accuracy is the rifle's consistent point of impact (POI) in relation to the sighting mechanism.

What is being discussed is regulation of a double rifle. But if a double rifle's barrels produce large left to right barrel POI, then it is acceptable to refer to that as not being accurate.

Me, as a language Nazi, I hate when anyone asks me "How are we doing?" We is a plural pronoun. Am I that fat that you think I am two people...

Another misnomer is then most gun enthusiasts refer to a chambering for a specific cartridge as a caliber. Sometimes I have to remember to lighten up!!!

 

[Don Hinton]

I agree speaking with Ken Owens. He is retired but speak nicely to him and he may take on your project. Friend of mine sent him his Sabatti 450-400. Had a 4 inch spread with right barrel at bullseye and left barrel 4 inches to left. Now shots at 1 inch group. Ken just played ith ammo no re-regulation. did work in 1 day. My friend is leaving today for Zimbabwe for elephant
Don

 

[Tanks]

@Tanks are you right handed? The reason I ask is most of my targets look like that. Shot places out to the left of the target, it’s like the pressure on the trigger forces the shot that ŵay.

I am left handed.

 

[Rare Breed]

I have always for the most part given I reload to tweet loads to get excellent regulation. Shoot 4 two shot groups at 50 yards knowing your powder and load with FPS. Label each shot R1, L1, then R2, L2. if they are crossing start by reducing powder load a few grains until you get to 1 inch. If they are not crossing just wide, increase a few grains until you get 1 inch. Has always worked for me which in this specific case with my friend Ken Owen is what he did

 

[Sideshow]

I am left handed.

Ohoo. Well there goes that theory....