Deciding on Which Rifle to Use

[intj]

One thing I do know from the hunting and competition shooting I have done is that what looks good on paper does t always translate to what works best in the field/at the range.

That's why I am asking all these new guy questions because I am sure there are a bunch here who have actual experience and have thought all this through.

Thanks for the replies!

 

[Nhoro]

Which rifle do you shoot most accurately ? I would use a 400 gr bullet in the 416 and 500 gr in the 458 and a 1x scope with a red dot in the centre of the crosshair. You can shoot with both eyes open like a red dot sight and dont need open sights (unless you want them) And I would take a plainsgame rifle- it is only a little extra weight on the plane.

Any of the 300 calibre rifles is a good choice for plainsgame-308,30-06 on through the 300 magnums. A 338 is a bit close to the 416 and a bit big for most plainsgame. Eland + buff -416 and 300 on the rest. Or if eland is off the cards then 458 and 300 is a possible combo.

 

[Inline6]

The world has definitely changed when I started toying with the 416s 20 years ago. Now I thought the argument for the 350 TSX and TTSX over a 400 grain controlled expansion bullet was the mono retained weight much better, so although it starts out with less weigh on impact it ends up with more weight at the end and this penetrates better?

I thought the concern with the 350 Barnes was actually over penetration on broadside shots on a buff?

It strikes me that if I really should be shooting a 400 grainer in a 416, then I might as well shoot the 450 in the Lott and bring a light rifle for plains game.

The 450gr TSX out of my Lott did not exist my Watusi with a broadside shot. The neck shot was a different story.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

My 416 Rem Super Express is the only gun I have taken to Africa. It works well for PG, although it makes big exit holes on the small stuff if you use expanding bullets. I would take a smaller PG Rifle (308 or 338) if you plan to bag 10 animals or shoot further than 250yds. Nosler Partitions work good on the small stuff, but A Frames is a better medicine for Buffalo. I didn’t use my irons, but I do appreciate having them.

Shooting prone is only going to happen on mountainous properties. Otherwise, visibility from prone is garbage. Shooting sticks are still the order of the day.

I suspect shooting a 400 gr bullet from prone position is a good way to get hurt, especially if rifle is scoped. When shooting the thumper, being less anchored is better. Let heavy recoil dissipate with body movement. I'll test my 404's recoil standing off the sticks before I attempt the bench.

 

[Inline6]

I suspect shooting a 400 gr bullet from prone position is a good way to get hurt, especially if rifle is scoped. When shooting the thumper, being less anchored is better. Let heavy recoil dissipate with body movement. I'll test my 404's recoil standing off the sticks before I attempt the bench.

Like others have said prone will be by chance. Most places will not offer the opportunity to shot prone. Using a set of viper flex shooting sticks, that might be the next best thing. Was about to get very stable with them.

 

[intj]

I suspect shooting a 400 gr bullet from prone position is a good way to get hurt, especially if rifle is scoped. When shooting the thumper, being less anchored is better. Let heavy recoil dissipate with body movement. I'll test my 404's recoil standing off the sticks before I attempt the bench.

Yes, I too only suspect that as well, as I haven't ever tried to shoot anything with heavy recoil from prone.

I think best way to handle heavy recoil is to have the torso upright and then let the recoil push us back. Hunched over into a rifle on the bench is another way to not shoot a heavy recoil rifle.

 

[intj]

Which rifle do you shoot most accurately ? I would use a 400 gr bullet in the 416 and 500 gr in the 458 and a 1x scope with a red dot in the centre of the crosshair. You can shoot with both eyes open like a red dot sight and dont need open sights (unless you want them) And I would take a plainsgame rifle- it is only a little extra weight on the plane.

Any of the 300 calibre rifles is a good choice for plainsgame-308,30-06 on through the 300 magnums. A 338 is a bit close to the 416 and a bit big for most plainsgame. Eland + buff -416 and 300 on the rest. Or if eland is off the cards then 458 and 300 is a possible combo.

I can shoot them all well. It's more of an issue of being proficient with running the bolt, and the M-70 seems better than the CZ for that. I can easily make one of my M-70s into a Lott. Unless the CZ with a shorter pull and longer bolt knob is a better idea?

Another big question I have is the 416 350 mono vs the 400 Partition/A-Frame/DGX Bonded. Same with the 458 450 mono vs the 500s. Over the years I had been less to believe the monos I mentioned penetrated better than the ones.

Is that not the case? What have you guys seen?

 

[Hunter-Habib]

Winchester Model 70 in .416 Remington Magnum. Loaded with 400Gr Barnes TSX. You will NOT be disappointed. Also not too much overkill on the plains game and a nice flat trajectory.

 

[Inline6]

I can shoot them all well. It's more of an issue of being proficient with running the bolt, and the M-70 seems better than the CZ for that. I can easily make one of my M-70s into a Lott. Unless the CZ with a shorter pull and longer bolt knob is a better idea?

Another big question I have is the 416 350 mono vs the 400 Partition/A-Frame/DGX Bonded. Same with the 458 450 mono vs the 500s. Over the years I had been less to believe the monos I mentioned penetrated better than the ones.

Is that not the case? What have you guys seen?

Mono bullets are longer than their conventional counter parts. That is why the SD on the mono score higher. I like the 450gr TSX in my Lott would take it on any hunt that requires a broadside shot (with the exception of cats, I want a softer bullet for that). Normally I would have said 350gr in the 416REM and let it eat. I do not have any experience with them. What I can tell you for a fact my buff took 9 rounds of 400gr AFrames. It made me realize how little I know about this guy's will to live.

What I can tell you for sure, I will always have a culling belt on when I hunt any DG from this point forward.

Hopefully someone with real world 350gr TSX experience will chime in.

 

[Nhoro]

I can shoot them all well. It's more of an issue of being proficient with running the bolt, and the M-70 seems better than the CZ for that. I can easily make one of my M-70s into a Lott. Unless the CZ with a shorter pull and longer bolt knob is a better idea?

Another big question I have is the 416 350 mono vs the 400 Partition/A-Frame/DGX Bonded. Same with the 458 450 mono vs the 500s. Over the years I had been less to believe the monos I mentioned penetrated better than the ones.

Is that not the case? What have you guys seen?

I would stick with the 400 and 500 gr A frame in softs and then mono solids in the same weight- if you want solids. Many PHs will stick with swift a frames for all buffalo shots and only recommend solids for elephant.

I am not a fan of lighter bullets.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

I must say I was surprised when my PH checked the weight of the two bullets retreived from my last buffalo (only two bullets hit it and the second was probably unnecessary). I had no idea I was using bullets that light. But they were certainly effective! First buff only required one shot and it was on the ground within twenty yards of impact. Both animals clearly appeared hit hard and the sound of impact was quite audible. Whatever you decide to shoot, be confident in your gun and your ability. At first I refused to take the shot at first buff because the wind was moving me too much on the sticks. PH stepped up and steadied my right arm. "That'll work" and I sent a bullet through its heart. Bullet placement is always important but for dangerous game it is essential. The other day I watched a video of a guy who shot his buff seven times with a Nitro double rifle. A shameless shitshow. Someone should have sent that footage to file thirteen wastebasket. He was taking running shots and not even on the gun. First shot off the sticks was through way too much brush. I wouldn't have taken that shot with a howitzer.

 

[shootist~]

@Inline6

On SD - logic would seem to agree with you, but there is nothing in the formula to favor a mono metal.

Formula for Sectional Density:

Wt in pounds x 1 / (dia squared)

 

[WAB]

One thing we learned the hard way, if hunting in DG country, carry something that will get you out of a jam even if you are hunting PG. Unprovoked charges do happen, and it may be rare, but if your PH is out of the game, your survival or that of others, depends on what is in your hands. After our 2017 safari, I personally set that minimum at 9.3 or .375. The write up is on here if you are interested.

 

[DLSJR]

I agree with Nhoro about not being a fan of lighter bullets in DG rifles. In 375 - 300 grains; 416 - 400 grains and in 458 - 500 grains. Those weights in each caliber are tried and proven to be very good over history.

There seem to be 4 expanding bullets that most settle on for buffalo; Swift A Frame, Barnes TSX, Trophy Bonded Bearclaw & Cutting Edge Raptors. Some also love Northfork, Woodleigh and even Nosler Partitions. I don’t think a buffalo hunter can make a bad choice with any of them.

My personal preference is the Bearclaw as they’re very effective on buffalo and I get 3/4” groups in my 416. However, I wouldn’t hesitate to shoot A Frames, TSX or Raptors as they all group well in that rifle and pretty much to same point at 100 yards. Last group I shot using all 4 bullets measured about 1 1/4”, certainly “Minute of Buffalo”. I suspect most hunters would find results not all that different.

 

[Inline6]

@Inline6

On SD - logic would seem to agree with you, but there is nothing in the formula to favor a mono metal.

Formula for Sectional Density:

Wt in pounds x 1 / (dia squared)

You are correct.

 

[WAB]

You are correct.

I think you are both correct. SD is assuming that the density of the projectile is lead. For a lighter material (mono metal bullets), this is not correct. The L/D of a mono metal bullet is much higher than a conventional bullet of the same weight.

 

[Inline6]

I think you are both correct. SD is assuming that the density of the projectile is lead. For a lighter material (mono metal bullets), this is not correct. The L/D of a mono metal bullet is much higher than a conventional bullet of the same weight.

It is probably a more true statement of BC. The simple equation of the way SD works @shootist~ is correct.

 

[intj]

So several here have talked about liking heavy bullets regardless of construction. Now again, I haven't kept up with Africa trends, but several years ago the thought was that an expanding mono should be lighter weight, and at that lighter weight it would out penetrate a heavier bonded lead or partition bullet. In fact, monos like the 416/350 and 458/450 were preferred over the 416/400 and 458/500 monos.

However, that was then and experience drives new ideas and approaches. So have those previous ideas on monos been found to be wrong?

I ask because I am in a position to use a 416 Rem or a 458 Lott in either an M-70 or a CZ with 350-500 grain bullets. (I could easily make a 416 or 458 RUM as well.) I just need to make to best bullet choice for each, if there really is a best choice here. I know any of the above will work, but I have the time now to optimize what I'll be using.

 

[Ontario Hunter]

If the lighter bullet has more gas and can retain its mass after impact AND stay on track, it can be very effective. Very heavy solids generally do not have a lot of gas, relatively speaking. They will retain that mass and rely on their heavier weight to keep them on track after impact (retained energy from greater inertia). The downside obviously is the energy required to push that heavier load is gonna be at least in part supplied by the shooter's shoulder. I think the clown I referred to above was shooting sloppy mostly because his Nitro cannon was more gun than he could handle (but it sure was purty). I fired my PH's loaner 375 CZ once at the range before heading out for buff. From the bench I didn't find the recoil at all intolerable. Actually, much less than expected. Then he offered to let me try his 458 Lott backup gun. "Well, I'm not shooting THAT from the bench!" Glen laughed. Of course not. I declined. Pointless to get beat up with a gun I wouldn't be shooting in any event.

Though mortaly wounded, neither buff was hit in the shoulder directly, and that MIGHT have made a difference. However, seeing the damage done and degree of penetration and mass retention including near perfect mushroom, I don't think it would have been a big difference. Is a buffalo minus one front leg and lung any less or more dangerous than one with all four legs and both lungs and/or heart shot out? Hard to say. Obviouy I have no experience taking out a front leg with first shot but looking at the videos it seems those big buggers can still motor pretty good on three legs and one lung.

 

[AZDAVE]

You sound like your M70 416 is your go to kinda rifle. Take it with 400gr Aframes and don't look back. I would only take solids if you were hunting elephant or hippo on land. The other would be if you had any of the tiny 10 on your list. Shoot them middle of the body and don't hit the shoulder.

As for prone, your odds of that on a buff hunt is very small. If you need to shoot a bigger rifle prone, make sure the stock is in the shoulder pocket and not on the collar bone. I took a shot prone on a bear a few years back with a 458 B&M with a 300gr Barnes going 2600. Wasn't as bad as I expected but not for the faint of heart.