Choosing a Double Rifle

[uplander01]

A chapuis double rifle is the best value right now, imo. They are regulated with modern ammo, and built right. The next step up would be a Heym 89b. I would argue that for what you get the iphisi model in 450-400 is hard to compare to any of the others, merkel, blaser, krieghoff,…it is far more elegant in the traditional sense from finish to stock design. Tom Leoni on this forum had a lot to do with its design, and he knows what he’s doing when it comes to classic firearm design.

 

[Garciamarquez1918]

I appreciate all the feed back, As stated above I don’t reload, but that may change sooner than later, And no I don’t want to go down the rabbit hole trying to regulate a rifle, thus saying this I would probably steer into the direction of a new rifle, Is there any brands under the 12k mark other than Sabatti, Rizzini, I think most Chapuis hang around the 12-13k mark new?

Chapuis might be slightly over your budget. So wait six months and put away $200 a month. Good things come to those who wait. Buy the best and you'll only cry once. Etc.

 

[mms45]

you can find the chapuis for right at the top of you budget, in 450-400. that is what i would do in your shoes. i just went through this on my own and ended up with my first 2 doubles one being 88b the other a francotte. they were both closer to 20k though.

 

[AZDAVE]

You have been given some good advise. a couple things that come to mind.

If you are going to hunt more buffalo and an occasional elephant the 450/400 is a great round. If you are going to hunt equal amounts of ele and buff get the 470.

I have owned most of the entry and mid level doubles and will throw in some experiences.

Owned two different sabattis. one shot well one didn't. Don't own either one any more.
Owned a Rizzini shot lights out but was a pound to two pounds to light. Don't own it any more

Owned a Siace and was one of the best doubles I have owned that was less than 10 K. It didn't fit me so I let a gent that it fit buy it. That is one I wish I had kept and takend a rasp to the stock and make it fit me.

Have owned 5 different Chapuis, all fit me and the fit and finish is very good and in my opinion the best of the under 16K doubles. I upgraded within their lines to the two I have now a RGEX and IPISHI.

Currently own a Krieghoff and love the rifle. IMO it is the best in the 16-20K range

Have owned a Hyem and Verney Carron both are great doubles. My Hyem was a older model 55 in 7x65 and the two VC are 8x57JRS and 450/400 (The 450/400 I never should have let go of.

These two brands are the best in the 20-32K range IMO.

I have never owned a Merkel but shot a few and I rank them above both the Sabatti and Rizzini.

As for reloading, it will save you money and allow shooting your double more, But with caution double are different to load for. Get Graeme Wright’s Shooting The British Double book and read it cover to cover several times before you start down the road of loading for doubles.

pay heed to @rookhawk what he said IS SPOT ON!

Take you time and save a bit longer to get a quality double. It will save you some school of hard knocks experiences.

If you aren't positive of getting a quality double you would be better off buying a NICE bolt gun.

 

[Mountaineer]

Don’t forget the over/under doubles out there. There a good way to a little better quality at a little less cost. Krieghoff is my preferred brand, but I also have a Winchester in a 9.3x74r that I hunt with a lot here in the USA.

 

[Moody808]

The Merkel 140AE is excellent value for the money.

I was in a similar position to the OP, I ended up getting a Merkel 140AE in 450-400NE from a fellow member on here. It had been re-regulated and had the triggers worked on by JJ and came with all of the documentation as well as a ton of reloading components. I had wanted a Krieghoff but honestly couldn't find a good one for less than $15k.The Merkel came in at less than half of that. I had spoken to Ralf Martini about it when he was selling off a lot of his guns prior to retiring, because there are a lot of mixed reviews out there on the Merkel's and he told to me to buy it right away and shoot the heck out of it. I did and have been really pleased with it. And if I want to upgrade at some point down the road I probably won't lose a nickel.

 

[Schüler Jumbo]

How are the barrels joined on you 140AE 450/400?

I was in a similar position to the OP, I ended up getting a Merkel 140AE in 450-400NE from a fellow member on here. It had been re-regulated and had the triggers worked on by JJ and came with all of the documentation as well as a ton of reloading components. I had wanted a Krieghoff but honestly couldn't find a good one for less than $15k.The Merkel came in at less than half of that. I had spoken to Ralf Martini about it when he was selling off a lot of his guns prior to retiring, because there are a lot of mixed reviews out there on the Merkel's and he told to me to buy it right away and shoot the heck out of it. I did and have been really pleased with it. And if I want to upgrade at some point down the road I probably won't lose a nickel.

 

[widetrackjack]

If 450/400 is on the menu, the Chapuis Iphisi might what you’re looking for…

$13,799 new at the beretta gallery… and they will give 10% off to a first time buyer if you get on their email list…so a purchase price of $12,419… right in your target price range..

My wife’s double is an iphisi in 375 H&H… I’m not sure it can be beat at it’s price point… the wood is beautiful.. fit and finish is excellent… etc… and JJ is a huge Chapuis fan… he speaks incredibly high of them (probably the best double gunsmith in the US, and likely among the best in the world)…

Chapuis Iphisi Double Rifle 375 H&H 450-400 NE AAA Walnut

Explore the Chapuis Iphisi Double Rifle in 375 H&H and 450-400 NE, featuring AAA walnut, colorcase receiver, and Talley rings for big game hunting.

berettagalleryusa.com

Ditto this! You won’t find a better gun for the price point of a Chapuis. Honestly, you may not be able to find a better working gun, period.

 

[SStomcat]

You have been given some good advise. a couple things that come to mind.

If you are going to hunt more buffalo and an occasional elephant the 450/400 is a great round. If you are going to hunt equal amounts of ele and buff get the 470.

I have owned most of the entry and mid level doubles and will throw in some experiences.

Owned two different sabattis. one shot well one didn't. Don't own either one any more.
Owned a Rizzini shot lights out but was a pound to two pounds to light. Don't own it any more

Owned a Siace and was one of the best doubles I have owned that was less than 10 K. It didn't fit me so I let a gent that it fit buy it. That is one I wish I had kept and takend a rasp to the stock and make it fit me.

Have owned 5 different Chapuis, all fit me and the fit and finish is very good and in my opinion the best of the under 16K doubles. I upgraded within their lines to the two I have now a RGEX and IPISHI.

Currently own a Krieghoff and love the rifle. IMO it is the best in the 16-20K range

Have owned a Hyem and Verney Carron both are great doubles. My Hyem was a older model 55 in 7x65 and the two VC are 8x57JRS and 450/400 (The 450/400 I never should have let go of.

These two brands are the best in the 20-32K range IMO.

I have never owned a Merkel but shot a few and I rank them above both the Sabatti and Rizzini.

As for reloading, it will save you money and allow shooting your double more, But with caution double are different to load for. Get Graeme Wright’s Shooting The British Double book and read it cover to cover several times before you start down the road of loading for doubles.

pay heed to @rookhawk what he said IS SPOT ON!

Take you time and save a bit longer to get a quality double. It will save you some school of hard knocks experiences.

If you aren't positive of getting a quality double you would be better off buying a NICE bolt gun.

I agree mostly. I’d put K gun at par with VC, or maybe a better value, so would like to know your perspective why you rank it higher

 

[ftrovato]

I dont know why you're not considering the 500 NE.

Ammo & rifles are readily available. I'd argue the difference in recoil from 470 NE is negligible and you benefit from heavier bullets too.

I think all 3 cartridges are wonderful options.

 

[mms45]

I dont know why you're not considering the 500 NE.

Ammo & rifles are readily available. I'd argue the difference in recoil from 470 NE is negligible and you benefit from heavier bullets too.

I think all 3 cartridges are wonderful options.

Very few 500s for sale that I see. And in that price range only merkel. Chapius only goes up to 470

 

[SStomcat]

I dont know why you're not considering the 500 NE.

Ammo & rifles are readily available. I'd argue the difference in recoil from 470 NE is negligible and you benefit from heavier bullets too.

I think all 3 cartridges are wonderful options.

You know what I think, it depends on the fit of the gun and maybe a few other things in conjunction. , The 500 I fired felt heavier and had more recoil than my 470. IMO ofcourse

 

[Pondoro]

I have a Krieghoff .470 and have shot a friends Krieghoff .500.. The recoil of the .500 is heavier but not earthshaking.

Unless you plan to shoot multiple elephant then no point in choosing a .500 over a .470.. my 2 cents..

 

[Mtn_Infantry]

You’re about 3-5years too late on sub $12k. Realistically you’re looking $15-20k, unless you find a screaming deal on a used gun.

My recommendation is to look at a Chapuis or Heym and skip the other brands.

 

[tygersman1]

Agree on the timing - until the last few years, sub $15k (and around $12k) was doable for a servicable, respected newer double rifle. I passed on quite a few Heyms and fancy VCs in the $12-18k range in those days. Now, not so much. For some reason, the prices of newer manufactured doubles have escalated significantly (I assume inflationary pressures plus less uncertainty about importability of ele, etc.). Interestingly, that doesn't seem to have dramatically affected quality vintage double rifle values yet (at least the ones that are actually selling), but those are outside of the budget. It probably won't be long before the quality vintage double rifles start escalating.

Folks already have directed you to the Chapuis doubles. I know there's some Searcy hate around here as of the last couple of years. But I know that plenty of folks (and many with legit double rifle experience) have been very happy with and have gotten good use out of their Searcy doubles over the years. I had a Searcy 470 for a while, and although I didn't like the handling, it was a reliable tack driver. I'm aware of a couple for sale now - one in 450 NE, well within your budget, and another that would probably be a little higher (470 NE sidelock). I have absolutely nothing to do with either gun or seller, but can show you where to find them if you're interested.

 

[318AE]

Or Hippo?

A hippo is a pachyderm. I get the sense that most hippos are actually shot in the water, and for that a scoped double is ideal. In the case of a hippo on land, and 470 would be a great choice.

 

[mms45]

Searcy left a stain on all his rifles on his way to retirement. It has certainly impacted their perceived value. They were well liked for a while

 

[AZDAVE]

@SStomcat I was just ranking the Krieghoff based on price. I personally like Krieghoff more than both VC and Hyem. But the price of the VC and Hyem are both higher so put them in that $$$ box.

The saftey/cocker decoker on the k-gun bothers some folks but I really like it.

 

[Altitude sickness]

@AZDAVE, I never saw the Cocker de-Cocker on the Krieghoff as an issue and enjoyed the additional safety benefit. But the trigger reach on my Krieghoff DR was too far, the longest I’ve seen on any rifle I’ve owned. and my hand would be out of position. the trigger guard would slam my middle finger on recoil.

 

[SStomcat]

I have a Krieghoff .470 and have shot a friends Krieghoff .500.. The recoil of the .500 is heavier but not earthshaking.

Unless you plan to shoot multiple elephant then no point in choosing a .500 over a .470.. my 2 cents..

One good reason to go for 470,