Bullet Performance Database

[dchum]

On a related note, I just used a 400 H&H shooting 400 gr North Fork bullets at 2400 fps on a Cape buffalo. The bull died very quickly. No bullets recovered as most went right through. One that was shot into the chest area was lost but it probably went into the rumen.

My take away is that this is too much power. Fortunately this was a lone bull, but there could have been issues if other buffalo were around. These are great bullets to load and shoot, so I need to back off the speed a little bit. I am going to try another powder that will hopefully have a sweet spot at a lower velocity.

There is a point that in some cases lowering the velo will actually cause the bullet to deform less and not “parachute” as much. So in turn seeing MORE penetration from less speeds. Can seem a bit backwards but thus is physics.

I know I have experienced it before. Just something to note.

But not sure how that plays out on 400gr 40 cal. as I have very limited big bore experience

 

[Pheroze]

Does anyone know the relative expansion difference between Swift A-frame and the equivalent North Fork? I ask because I believe the common wisdom is that the North Fork will penetrate further. So, I am wondering if the Swift frontal diameter is actually more

 

[Hornedfrogbbq]

Does anyone know the relative expansion difference between Swift A-frame and the equivalent North Fork? I ask because I believe the common wisdom is that the North Fork will penetrate further. So, I am wondering if the Swift frontal diameter is actually more

John McAdams on the Big Game Hunting Podcast does these bullet comparisons on occasion. Google that or look on youtube.

 

[StevenQ718]

Ruger GSR
308 Winchester
220 grain Hornady Interlock
140 grains weight retention
Approximately 2150 fps
100 yards
Young Bull Nilgai, shoulder shot, bullet recovered on opposite shoulder beneath the hide.

Congrats! How far did the Nilgai go?

 

[mooze]

Barnes .45-70 TSX 300 grain

spine shot

 

[JG26Irish_2]

There is a point that in some cases lowering the velo will actually cause the bullet to deform less and not “parachute” as much. So in turn seeing MORE penetration from less speeds. Can seem a bit backwards but thus is physics.

I know I have experienced it before. Just something to note.

But not sure how that plays out on 400gr 40 cal. as I have very limited big bore experience

I have seen this with the Barnes TSX on Wildebeest. The first shot at 160y expanded to 1.9x and penetrated almost 36" on a frontal shot. The last shot was at 10y to the chest and expanded to 2.2x but only penetrated about 24". It is sort of self adjusting up to a point to insure adequate penetration.

 

[AckleyHunter]

I have seen this with the Barnes TSX on Wildebeest. The first shot at 160y expanded to 1.9x and penetrated almost 36" on a frontal shot. The last shot was at 10y to the chest and expanded to 2.2x but only penetrated about 24". It is sort of self adjusting up to a point to insure adequate penetration.

Archery hunters see this practicing on foam targets. Arrows drive much further into the target at 50 yards than 20. Faster equals more friction and push back. Jump off a dock into water you will sink to the bottom. Jump off a really tall bridge you will go splat.

Visual reference for increased penetration at low velocities from a 45-70.

 

[Paul Homsy]

Archery hunters see this practicing on foam targets. Arrows drive much further into the target at 50 yards than 20. Faster equals more friction and push back. Jump off a dock into water you will sink to the bottom. Jump off a really tall bridge you will go splat.

Visual reference for increased penetration at low velocities from a 45-70.
View attachment 768588

While there is an optimum speed for bullets, arrows do not behave like bullets. Cutting through organs causing bleeding is the only way arrows work in bowhunting. Not shock or like someone said "parachute" called expanding...Ft lbs of energy are extremely low and do not represent the criteria to properly and ethically take game. Cutting is the only criteria, avoiding large bones.
As a rule the closer you are to your game the better the chance of a pass through with a sharp broadhead which is why lower draw weight bows should be shot from closer distances. At long range an arrow penetrate LESS, regardless of the type of point used. The closer to the game the better. I speak from decades of experience for myself and many other bowhunters.
I don't know where you formulated the idea that at longer ranges arrows penetrate more.
It is the exact opposite.
Any arrow that flies true without wobbling will penetrate more than another that does not fly true. Good flight is the determining factor. Distance is a disadvantage in bowhunting. A heavier arrow will penetrate more than a lighter one at longer range but distance will affect all arrows similarly.
Your example showing bullets penetration has no correlation to arrow flight and penetration.

 

[AckleyHunter]

While there is an optimum speed for bullets, arrows do not behave like bullets. Cutting through organs causing bleeding is the only way arrows work in bowhunting. Not shock or like someone said "parachute" called expanding...Ft lbs of energy are extremely low and do not represent the criteria to properly and ethically take game. Cutting is the only criteria, avoiding large bones.
As a rule the closer you are to your game the better the chance of a pass through with a sharp broadhead which is why lower draw weight bows should be shot from closer distances. At long range an arrow penetrate LESS, regardless of the type of point used. The closer to the game the better. I speak from decades of experience for myself and many other bowhunters.
I don't know where you formulated the idea that at longer ranges arrows penetrate more.
It is the exact opposite.
Any arrow that flies true without wobbling will penetrate more than another that does not fly true. Good flight is the determining factor. Distance is a disadvantage in bowhunting. A heavier arrow will penetrate more than a lighter one at longer range but distance will affect all arrows similarly.
Your example showing bullets penetration has no correlation to arrow flight and penetration.

Hi Paul,
The archery example was ment to be an analogy and not any reference to how either bullets or arrows kill. Merely how lower velocity impacts result in deeper penetration. This is just my observations from 30 years of bow hunting.
20 yards:

50 yards:

125 gr field points roughly 400 gr total arrow weight.

 

[Rule 303]

Re the two above examples the difference I see is the medium. The blocks are not flesh and I suspect could give different results. Some years ago I read where ballistic gelatin of different consistencies should completely different results, hence a specific recipe to obtain best/closest to real life performance of the bullet.

As I stopped reading about ballistics in depth many moons ago and memory not being what it was I may well be corrected.

 

[45-70guy]

I’ll attempt to not make this more confusing:
All bullets are 225g North Fork SD shot from my 35 Whelen st 2650 fps.
All shots were 150yds and in, A few of my animals there was no recoveries.
•Zebra - quartering to shoulder shot
•Oryx - front neck shot ( found in stomach )
•Kudu - just behind shoulder / insurance shot in spine
•Wildebeest - frontal chest shot ( found in stomach)
•Sable - frontal chest shot, broke far side shoulder
•Blesbok - shoulder shot

 

[MS 9x56]

Caliber: 8mm Remington Magnum
Type of bullet: Nosler Partition
Bullet speed: 3000 fps
Distance of shot: ~160 yards
Original weight: 200 grains
Recovered weight: Lead fragment, 77 grains. I didn't weigh the jacket, which had completely separated
Species: Zebra
Shot placement: Broadside into the shoulder

Limited penetration with the first two shots. The jacket was recovered just under the skin, the lead only a couple of inches in. The zebra dropped at the shot, but was up quickly and running. A second shot to the chest had similar results. The animal was finished with follow up shots with a .416.

View attachment 181658 View attachment 181659

I have never seen a partition seperate as pictured. Front separation yes but rear section never.

 

[MS 9x56]

Caliber: 35 Whelen
Muzzle Velocity: 2550 fps
Bullet: Nosler Partition
Original Weight: 250gr
Recovered Weight: 160gr
Game: Impala
Distance: 200 yards
Shot Placement: Head On Frontal Chest

The bullet entered the in the middle of the chest and traveled the entire length of the Impala, the bullet tumbled and exited shank first from back of the rear leg, the pedals came to rest just under the hide with the shank protruding from the hide. The Impala took two steps backwards and collapsed.

View attachment 181725

This is much more typical for the partition.